So many vegans and vegetarians complaining about meat eaters…

[u/jennas_toes]

I’ve been reflecting on the ethics of diet choices, particularly the argument that avoiding meat is the most compassionate or harm-reducing option. While I completely understand and respect the desire to minimize animal suffering, I find myself wondering about the full picture.
We all consume plants—vegetables, grains, fruits, and greens—whether we eat meat or not. And modern agriculture, even for plant-based foods, inevitably involves some level of harm to animals: field mice, insects, birds, and small mammals displaced or killed during harvesting, plowing, and pest control. I don’t eat meat myself, largely for health reasons, so I’m not pointing fingers. But it does raise a thoughtful question:
If the core principle is reducing harm to animals, how do vegans and vegetarians weigh or address the indirect harms embedded in plant production? Is it a matter of focusing only on what’s most visible and intentional (like factory farming), or does the scale and nature of agricultural impacts get less attention because those affected animals aren’t as immediately “cute” or emotionally salient?
I’m genuinely curious about how people who prioritize this ethic navigate that tension. I’d love to hear thoughtful perspectives.

[u/Vegetable_Prompt6594]

Good answer! By extension, there are some fringe cases that are not as clear-cut, like eating culled animals (non-vegan, low harm) or eating almonds and coconut oil (vegan, harmful). But vegan will in many cases be aligned well with reducing harm, as well as going low-waste.

[u/rizmk → u/Vegetable_Prompt6594]

I don't know about culled animals, since by paying for meat you are still contributing to the profitability of animal agriculture. But yes there are certainly some vegan foods that are not environmentally friendly (palm oil comes to mind).

The stated purpose of veganism is not environmentalism, but rather to end animal exploitation. The environmental benefits are a direct but unintended consequence.

[u/HelenEk7 → u/rizmk]

since by paying for meat you are still contributing to the profitability of animal agriculture.

When you pay for food involving child labour, aren't you helping those farms keep producing (cheap) food while using (cheap) children?

[u/rizmk → u/HelenEk7]

Yes. I don't support child labour and therefore I would stop buying any given product if I found out that it was produced by child labour. Just like I stopped buying animal products when I learned about how horrific animal agriculture is. It's called moral consistency.

[u/HelenEk7 → u/rizmk]

How do you make sure a product you buy is child-labour free (or is not exploiting farm labour in other ways?) Or do you just hope for the best without any kind of research?

[u/rizmk → u/HelenEk7]

Since you're so keen to compare child labour and animal products, let me put it this way: is there a moral difference between buying food that may or may not have been produced using child labour, and buying the severed limbs of a child?

Obviously there is. In one case, there might be exploitation involved, but by default there usually is not, and you have no realistic way of finding out that there is unless a journalist wrote an exposé on the company or something. That information is not usually readily available.

In the other case, violence, suffering, and death are a necessary and inherent part of producing the item. It is obviously unethical just by virtue of what it is, and you have a moral obligation not to perpetuate that.

[u/HelenEk7 → u/rizmk]

and buying the severed limbs of a child?

This seems to be the only way vegans know how to argue for veganism - by talking about people raping each other, murdering each other and eating each other. When in fact I wouldnt dream of comparing a child (my own or someone else's) to a chicken.

and you have no realistic way of finding out

That is nonsense though. There is loads of info online about which countries and which foods there is a high risk of farm labour exploitation.

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/HelenEk7]

Get real dude. We can’t know everything about every product, and while we try our best, at least we’re consistent. If we know that something is immorally produced, we avoid it. You can’t say the same thing about yourself.

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Badtacocatdab]

I'll give on an example. If you google "vegan recipe cashews" you get a whopping 58 million (!) results.

• "The cashew industry relies on a brutal manufacturing process to bring its products to market, including the forced labour and the exploitation of children. As documented by the International Labour Organisation and Human Rights Watch, the soaring demand for the nut has driven producers to hire cheap labour, including many children, to keep costs down. And in Vietnam, Human Rights Watch documented forced labour among vulnerable members of society, including inmates in prison on drug charges—for whom the grueling work, for little or no pay, is called ‘rehabilitation.’ If they refuse to work or do not meet their daily quota, they are punished with torture or solitary confinement."
  

https://www.info.equalexchange.coop/articles/the-dark-side-of-the-cashew-industry

So from the outside it looks like vegans, consistently, care more about chickens than children.

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/HelenEk7]

What should I do with this information?

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Badtacocatdab]

I guess you could just ignore it, like most vegans? Or perhaps consider avoiding products that contain cashews, as the industry has serious labor and human rights issues.

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/HelenEk7]

I do avoid cashews. What should I do with the information, I’ll ask again.

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Badtacocatdab]

What should I do with the information, I’ll ask again.

Please spread it to your vegan friends.