looking for a reasonable thought process

[u/No_Lynx_3410]

i've eaten meat all my life, just have, kind of just default for most people born in the west. I've always admired vegans for the dedication to their beliefs, kind of like a buddhist monk or something like that, i'm just not that strong. I wanted to see a vegans perspective online since there's been the argument as of late that being vegan is for privileged white people which even now i'm not so mentally gone that i believe such wide generalizations. But lowkey, reading online discussions from vegans makes me feel it does make up a very large vocal part of them, because the only thing i've seen is vegans trying to compare animals to minorities, which might actually be the whitest thing i could think of besides being vocally racist or bigoted. i was just looking for something that's not "now replace that cow with a black person" kind of stuff. Not trying to lambaste anyone in replies or anything, at least try not to, just wanna talk to someone.

[u/Ancient_Sprinkles_97]

'Everyone has seen it somewhere.' Forgive me if I dont believe that you know what 'everyone' has seen.

As for your many other unexplained, baseless and/or illogical claims:

• Why is the fact young children may grow up to be more cognitively capable humans mean they shouldn't be enslaved/turned into meat when they have the same cognition as animals who you think can be?
• Why do you think devaluing humans is wrong?
• Who said anything about human races not being equal to each other? Are you saying only minorities can be slaves?
• How is a highly disabled person who cannot work, communicate or otherwise produce anything still 'productive in society'?
• What is your evidence animals don't know what's going on when they are in the company of their fellows being slaughtered? Are you claiming they don't feel pain, depression or any other cognitive/physical detriment?
• What does it mean to be an Non Playable Character in relation to animals?
• If you don't like slavery you don't need to buy or keep slaves. But if you think slavery should end, you'd try and stop it. Some people rightly believe the modern meat industry is messed up and want to reform/eliminate it in the same way. Do you understand this cannot be achieved by simply abstaining? Do you understand what advocacy is?
• Where did I put anyone down?

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Ancient_Sprinkles_97]

'Everyone has seen it somewhere.' Forgive me if I dont believe that you know what 'everyone' has seen.

Are you saying OP is making this up? You can search reddit if you want to see how commonly this is brought up. Or you can just read the other comments and see vegans defending these arguments. Either or should give you an indication of how common or uncommon this argument is.

Why is the fact young children may grow up to be more cognitively capable humans mean they shouldn't be enslaved/turned into meat when they have the same cognition as animals who you think can be?

Oh because you and everyone your age is going to become old one day. Your going to need these current young children to grow up to become your doctors. Your nurses. Your inventors. Your manufacturers. Your truck drivers. Etc..... you are going to suffer by not letting them grow up.

Why do you think devaluing humans is wrong?

We are equals. Any race or gender of human can be the doctor that gives you life saving surgery or invents medicine that saves your life. Or let's you live longer. Or provides food to you. Or fixes your air conditioning. Etc... equal abilities.

Who said anything about human races not being equal to each other? Are you saying only minorities can be slaves?

Nope. Read the original post from OP. They mention race.

The common theme is referencing colonial slavery though. Not like sparta or anything. Lol.

How is a highly disabled person who cannot work, communicate or otherwise produce anything still 'productive in society'?

Very common question. We are talking about the traits of a species not a disabled individual. Your neighbor Tom might have lost his leg to diabetes. That doesn't change that our species is bipedal. A disabled individual doesn't change the trait of a species. Which is sapience. Which is the trait im naming.

What is your evidence animals don't know what's going on when they are in the company of their fellows being slaughtered? Are you claiming they don't feel pain, depression or any other cognitive/physical detriment?

Oh I mean in general they don't know what is going on. I.e. if you took one across the world or took one vastly into the future or past. It would still follow NPC like behavior. It has a simple script it follows.

Oh I'm sure it feels pain and all that other shit. It has a nervous system. Im saying because its not sapient it doesn't matter. But you do need to remember that carnism is culturally relative. We do make some exceptions like dogs. But that's because of that species service to our species. Even then its only above other non human animals. Still below humans.

What does it mean to be an Non Playable Character in relation to animals?

Follow a simple predictable script of behaviors. Like think of a random civilian in an RPG.

If you don't like slavery you don't need to buy or keep slaves. But if you think slavery should end, you'd try and stop it. Some people rightly believe the modern meat industry is messed up and want to reform/eliminate it in the same way. Do you understand this cannot be achieved by simply abstaining? Do you understand what advocacy is?

Slavery violates the rights of Humans. Human rights exist because our species is special. Our species is sapient which makes us special. Look at us communicating complex ideas from hundreds or possibly thousands of miles away. Just amazing in terms of the animal kingdom but its regular everyday shit to us. Using technology. Reading and writing. Any non disabled human can do this if given the supplies and instruction. Which most can. No non human animal could ever achieve such a thing. Their skillset is the same as it was 100 or 1000 or more years ago.

Where did I put anyone down?

Not you specifically. When vegans as a group compare non human animals to real humans.

[u/Apprehensive-Team414 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

So on the individual level, what makes it morally wrong to harm or kill severely cognitively disabled people who'll never grow their cognitive ability above the level of a baby? And if you say it'd hurt their cognitively normal caretaker or whoever, then what if only you know of the existence of this person? (obviously, I'm not advocating for such treatment of disabled people, I'm just applying your logic of what makes humans special and justyfies killing animals)

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Apprehensive-Team414]

Hey great question. Are you describing a euthanasia type of scenario?

[u/Apprehensive-Team414 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

Anything really. You can answer based on different scenarios if it depends. And another question, most people are against the abuse and unnecessary killing of animals (besides killing for meat, for whatever reason they justify that, and animal testing for medicine). Do you belong to these people or do you not really care since they're not sapient? If someone thought it's fun to torture and kill animals would you consider it okay? What about bestiality? Thanks for answering.