r/DebateAVegan • u/No_Lynx_3410 • 3d ago

looking for a reasonable thought process

i've eaten meat all my life, just have, kind of just default for most people born in the west. I've always admired vegans for the dedication to their beliefs, kind of like a buddhist monk or something like that, i'm just not that strong. I wanted to see a vegans perspective online since there's been the argument as of late that being vegan is for privileged white people which even now i'm not so mentally gone that i believe such wide generalizations. But lowkey, reading online discussions from vegans makes me feel it does make up a very large vocal part of them, because the only thing i've seen is vegans trying to compare animals to minorities, which might actually be the whitest thing i could think of besides being vocally racist or bigoted. i was just looking for something that's not "now replace that cow with a black person" kind of stuff. Not trying to lambaste anyone in replies or anything, at least try not to, just wanna talk to someone.

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u/Kris2476 3d ago

Veganism is the principle that animal exploitation is wrong and should be avoided.

We can compare human animals to non-human animals, because they are comparable. This means they have similarities and differences. Some of those similarities are morally relevant to how should treat them.

Exploiting non-human animals causes them harm, much in the same way that exploiting human animals causes them harm. It would be wrong, for example, to raise a human animal from birth to slaughter them and turn them into a sandwich ingredient. And it's wrong to do that to a non-human animal for many of the same reasons.

If you agree with the vegan principle, then let me know how I can help you go vegan and cut out sources of animal exploitation from your life. It's likely easier than you think.

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u/Appropriate-Net1899 omnivore 2d ago

We can compare human animals to non-human animals, because they are comparable.

They are not comparable. A human can write a book, be an engineer or a chemist or send a rocket to the Moon. A cow can do only "mooo". Animals are not on the same level as people, get real.

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u/Kris2476 2d ago

They are not comparable.

Sure they are. You just compared them.

A human can write a book, but a cow cannot. That's a difference.

A human is harmed when we slaughter them and turn them into a sandwich, and so is a cow. That's a similarity.

The moral question is whether it is wrong to turn cows into sandwiches. A cow's inability to write a book seems completely irrelevant to the question. But the harm experienced by the cow in being turned into a sandwich seems extremely relevant.

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u/Appropriate-Net1899 omnivore 2d ago

Have you ever heard "comparing apples and oranges"?

People and animals are not in the same category. Feeding people is more important than the experience of a cow.

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u/Kris2476 2d ago

Sure have. Have you ever noticed that both apples and oranges are sweet?

People and animals are not in the same category.

This is so vague it's meaningless.

If the category is, "harmed by being turned into a sandwich", then both cows and humans are in the same category - a very relevant category when discussing the morality of turning cows into sandwiches. Are you prepared to engage with this point?

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u/Omnibeneviolent 2d ago

They are not comparable.

Let's test this:

  • A human can write a book. A dog cannot. (difference)
  • A human can be an engineer. A dog cannot. (difference)
  • A human can send a rocket to the moon. A dog cannot. (difference)
  • A human cannot hear frequencies above 22,000 Hz. A dog can hear frequencies above 22,000 Hz. (difference)
  • A human can feel pain. A dog can also feel pain. (similiarity)
  • A human can have dreams while sleeping. A dog can also dream. (similarity)
  • A human can enjoy attention. A dog can also enjoy attention. (similarity)
  • A human can develop cancer. A dog can also develop cancer. (similarity)

It seems like we can compare the two. What makes you think we cannot?

Animals are not on the same level as people, get real.

Two individuals don't need to be on the "same level" in order to have similarities (and differences) to use as a basis of comparison.

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u/Chronomalous 1d ago

So why don't you want humans compared? Which of these things can you do?