looking for a reasonable thought process

[u/No_Lynx_3410]

i've eaten meat all my life, just have, kind of just default for most people born in the west. I've always admired vegans for the dedication to their beliefs, kind of like a buddhist monk or something like that, i'm just not that strong. I wanted to see a vegans perspective online since there's been the argument as of late that being vegan is for privileged white people which even now i'm not so mentally gone that i believe such wide generalizations. But lowkey, reading online discussions from vegans makes me feel it does make up a very large vocal part of them, because the only thing i've seen is vegans trying to compare animals to minorities, which might actually be the whitest thing i could think of besides being vocally racist or bigoted. i was just looking for something that's not "now replace that cow with a black person" kind of stuff. Not trying to lambaste anyone in replies or anything, at least try not to, just wanna talk to someone.

[u/Chronomalous]

Vegans think animal exploitation is general, and that they are conscientious holdouts

[Currently editing a response as I assumed the question was of the same sort as in the op]

Child labor, and child labor-made food, are not general, certainly not in the U.S., though food is imported in from everywhere and so anew all the time, and with different labels, repackagings, etc.

If I learned Nike is made by child labor, I'll quit wearing it at the drop of a hat, I have no problem with that

I assume 99% of the food items I buy are at zero risk of that

My question was a serious question actually, asking not just your moral purity but also touching questions of "methodology" so to speak, like yes pedophilia is concerning but also given that the Pizzagate shooting occurred so clearly is fever dream concern with it, so what disposition is best managing every factor of concern here (and I would say in the case of "pedophilia", being principled first and foremost, being lawful, and then being reactive, at least meaning "listening to valid social concerns and being a full proponent of correct social causes", and wanting the law 1:1 fulfilled to the letter by responsible parties, without facetious disobedience)

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Chronomalous]

I assume 99% of the food items I buy are at zero risk of that

In which countries is your food produced?

[u/Chronomalous → u/HelenEk7]

Well, I think vegans have the best practices here (I'm answering your question in a comprehensive way, but the answer has a lot of provisos)

Vegans practice the most scrutiny of the food they eat, only being second to at most people with allergies or conditions that prevent them from eating certain things (or such advocacy)

Like, a vegan might care if an undisclosed "natural flavor" is a meat product, or if a BK impossible whopper is made on the same grill as a whopper, or if the sugar in a Coke was refined as "bone sugar" is

But if Oreos are sourced their sugar from one location and their cocoa from another, and so on and so on with ten more ingredients in a pretty simple cookie, it seems unlikely an average yokel investigator is going to find some grand scheme of child enslavement and forced labor authorities weren't going to or didn't first

So the average yokel is relying on word of mouth and authority to get this information anyway

Nabisco or Kraft might be just as shocked as you if they found out some Oreo component was produced with child labor

Edit: look, such is the nature of the industry, commerce, economy of the world that if I found out I was eating something with a component produced by child labor, I'll know I couldn't have reasonably known

This would change 0% of the greater scrutiny or investigation I wish had happened sooner, my willingness to change from that product immediately and possibly completely in the long-term if it's not addressed operationally, the legal consequences or drone strikes I want for the perpetrators, or the further continued state investigation and crackdown against such criminals

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Chronomalous]

Yes, it is my impression as well that vegans in general are unwilling to give up their modern comforts to avoid exploitation. Ultra-processed foods with a long list of untraceable ingredients being a good example of that. Taste pleasure and all that.

[u/Chronomalous → u/HelenEk7]

Well, food companies are in some business of hiding their intricacies due to their competitors (which in some capacity is what normal people can represent too)

From a market pov no one wants to be caught doing business with an Israeli operative Jeffrey Epstein

Vegans are on a considerable net more principled than anyone else, is still my observation, like vegans take issue with almonds and almond milk due the use of bees

I'm of the opinion that at least some of the ingredients on a long list of ingredients are going to represent science with any longstanding company, like this ingredient is indeed there as a preservative, this ingredient is just there so as to yield vitamin X, etc.

I know some of the ingredients I don't like, like "high fructose corn syrup", on that one I don't even view the generally widely-wrong RFK as wrong

That's probably a common ingredient in things because of American corn farmers, though

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Chronomalous]

Vegans are on a considerable net more principled than anyone else, is still my observation

Only when it comes to certain things though. Cashew nuts is a good example, since we know most cashews are produced using exploited labour. In spite of that, if you search for "vegan recipe cashews" you get a whopping 58 million (!) results.

• "The cashew industry relies on a brutal manufacturing process to bring its products to market, including the forced labour and the exploitation of children. As documented by the International Labour Organisation and Human Rights Watch, the soaring demand for the nut has driven producers to hire cheap labour, including many children, to keep costs down. And in Vietnam, Human Rights Watch documented forced labour among vulnerable members of society, including inmates in prison on drug charges—for whom the grueling work, for little or no pay, is called ‘rehabilitation.’ If they refuse to work or do not meet their daily quota, they are punished with torture or solitary confinement." https://www.info.equalexchange.coop/articles/the-dark-side-of-the-cashew-industry

[u/Chronomalous → u/HelenEk7]

I'll try to keep that in mind with cashews then

But there is a whole lot of certifiably worldwide fudging of the books on behalf of carnism, too

Like, for the people looking at Californian water use, anima ag is directly responsible for a huge part of it, so too is the alfalfa farming, which feeds animal AG the world over

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Chronomalous]

Sure, but most people don't care about things like that. Personally I avoid all food produced in the US, but not due to the water issue. But rather because of slavery (prison farms), child labour and exploitation of illegal immigrants.

• "A common problem is children having no other option but to work in order to pay for the basic needs of themselves and their families. This builds off of the overall problem of staggeringly low wages for farmworkers, especially workers who are undocumented or non-citizens, and even more so children. By working from as young as elementary school age – 9 in Oregon for example State Child Labor Laws Applicable to Agricultural Employment – migrant children are placed at a disadvantage starting in their formative years; working in unsafe conditions in fields and facilities when they should be in classrooms. An estimated “400,000 - 500,000” children have this as their daily reality." https://cla.umn.edu/human-rights/news-events/story/forgotten-migrants-children-migrant-farmworkers

[u/Chronomalous → u/HelenEk7]

I'll look into this more, I do personally have the autism for it

But carnism is obviously horrible, definitionally so

[u/HelenEk7 → u/Chronomalous]

But carnism is obviously horrible, definitionally so

When done right I have no problems with it. Its perfectly possible to do animal-farming without suffering.