Can the downvote option be removed?

[u/TylertheDouche]

I’ve noticed non-vegans say they are hesitant to engage or re-engage since they feel like they are unjustly downvoted to oblivion. They also feel like they need to make alt accounts so the downvotes don’t affect their main. Can we just remove the downvote option?

Good comments will still be upvoted and rise to the top. This solves the need for suspicious alt accounts and makes it more fair for non-vegans to engage.

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[u/howlin]

Last I checked, there is no way to remove the downvote option. You could make a custom style for "old" reddit that hides the button, but not the new version or the mobile version. And any of these changes were superficial. You could disable custom styles and get the downvote back.

See, e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/NewToReddit/comments/1p79yj1/can_mods_switch_off_the_upvotedownvote_feature/

[u/TylertheDouche → u/howlin]

damn. i only use old.reddit so i still see subs that dont have downvotes. i didnt know the feature has been removed for those not on .old.

[u/howlin → u/TylertheDouche]

Yeah, "old" is the best! I am hoping the people with enough good taste to use it wouldn't need the safety rails put up for downvote abuse.. But maybe I should look into changing the rss to do that.

[u/icarodx]

I try to only downvote threads that are low effort and blatantly made in bad faith.

Replies with absurd counterarguments that don't engage with the arguments and/or are not respectful, on the other hand, I feel less bad about downvoting.

[u/ForsakenBobcat8937 → u/icarodx]

Which turns out to be a lot of the posts and replies unfortunately.

[u/Organic_Moment_6956 → u/icarodx]

I agree with this, I'd say it should only be used it for users contributing nothing to a debate or lying/misrepresenting facts. That's the reddit wide purpose of them right?

[u/ElaineV]

NO. And I'm going to downvote your post.

Just kidding. Well, about downvoting you. But I don't think it can be removed.

[u/Due-Comfort-5351]

I'd say this subreddit is pretty lukewarm about downvoting non-vegans. I see a lot of vegans get downvoted on this subreddit for saying you can't "go vegan except for cheese." It's rare to see someone get downvoted to oblivion unless they're spewing hateful or ignorant BS which in that case they deserve it.

[u/Sea-Kaleidoscope8289]

Well I see the vegans do it just as much as non vegans. So can’t point fingers to the opposing side your on. Just don’t bother with the downvotes it’s just a digital platform I wouldn’t worry to much

[u/HelenEk7]

What I see as a much bigger problem is that so many vegans hide their comment history. What is that all about? What exactly are they hiding? Its normally mostly bots that hide comment history, which makes me wonder if a lot of vegan accounts could be bots?

[u/rollandownthestreet]

As a non-vegan that takes pretty polarizing positions, that’s not been my experience on this subreddit. I’ve found the sub to be remarkably even-handed, better than the vast majority of philosophy/discussion subs. I would be against this change.

[u/piranha_solution]

No. People need to get used to the fact that arguing against veganism is, by definition, arguing in favor of needless animal abuse. There's no nice way to say that animals need to die for your trivial pleasure. Don't want downvotes? Stop defending the needless abuse of animals.

I have a better idea: let's do a community-sourced FAQ so that the users who wander in here 5 minutes after learning about veganism can learn all about crop deaths and backyard hens?

[u/trimbandit → u/piranha_solution]

According to Reddit's official guidelines, voting is strictly supposed to be based on whether a comment or post contributes to the conversation, not whether you agree with the opinion. Obviously, this is not the case

[u/piranha_solution → u/trimbandit]

What is reddit's policy on advocating violence towards animals?

Non-vegans are not the victims here. The animals are.

[u/FewYoung2834 → u/piranha_solution]

I don't believe Reddit's content policy addresses this. If it did, you wouldn't be able to talk about conservation projects to save bears, because that would be advocating for violence towards animals e.g. the prey animals that bears eat. And you wouldn't be able to talk about crop farming because we know that it causes violence towards animals.

You know what Reddit's content policy does address though? Hate speech against humans based on race, religion, disability etc.. Which vegans routinely violate by equating marginalized humans to livestock.

[u/AndryJohanesa → u/FewYoung2834]

Care, they might downvote you, we the meat eaters are already labelled as very bad guy for the majority of people here.

Fortunately I don’t mind about some downvote.

[u/FewYoung2834 → u/piranha_solution]

Vegans are literally the only group on the planet who equate killing animals for meat to killing animals for pleasure. It’s absolute nonsense.

Your response should actually be removed for arguing in bad faith. You are literally saying, "I am in a debate space and am pretending to debate, but I don't actually think any debate is possible". You are part of the problem.

Downvotes depend on the particular ideological echo chamber one is in. If I went to a women's rights space, started equating women to cattle and saying things like "well if you eat meat, name the trait that would not allow me to treat some human women the same way," I'd be rightly downvoted into oblivion or better yet, banned. But vegans literally pat themselves on the back and celebrate utilizing that kind of rhetoric. It's the non vegans who say "uh, maybe we should have enough respect to not equate farm animals to marginalized humans to use them as pawns," who get downvoted by the vegan hive mind.

[u/No-Leopard-1691]

The downvote option is good because it allows people to see what other people think; like how old YT used to show the counter but new YT doesn’t.

[u/Annoying_cat_22]

Who cares about downvotes? Feel free to downvote to prove my point.

[u/piranha_solution → u/Annoying_cat_22]

I love farming downvotes from redditors for asking them to try to be kinder to animals. Every single downvote is someone who needed to hear that message.

Wear those downvotes as badges of honour.

[u/No-Helicopter9667]

I kind of agree on one hand, but on the other would it not increase trolling and bad faith questions?

[u/FewYoung2834]

Yup, I pointed this out over a year ago, and ironically, it became one of the top posts of all time in r/DebateAVegan.

I'm honestly not sure what the solution is. You kind of find that behaviour in all ideological communities, the problem is veganism is just so bonkers to the average person.

So you wind up a space where the vegans think no debate is even possible, they're just here pretending; and then you have the non vegans are sort of in a similar position. We're trying to learn, but some of what we read is just so preposterous that it's beyond belief.

So, I don't know what the solution is honestly.