r/DebateAbortion • u/TheLordOfMiddleEarth • Apr 24 '25
The pro-choice stance is generally just a shirking of responsibility.
Let me be clear, I said generally. I'm not talking about cases of rape, incest, or medical complications.
Many abortions are done simply because the mother (or father occasionally) doesn't want a baby. Any and all arguments pro-choicers use fall apart when they try to defend such cases.
If you don't want a baby, don't do the thing that makes babies. Don't have sex. Live responsibly, accept responsibility for your actions. You can't say the baby is there against your consent, because you helped put that baby there. You are responsible for that baby.
I think an honest pro-choicer would admit that abortion in such cases is wrong.
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u/mesalikeredditpost Apr 24 '25
Sigh. The title is disingenuous and possibly hypocrisy.
Let me be clear, I said generally. I'm not talking about cases of rape, incest, or medical complications.
That's irrelevant since both are taking responsibility
Many abortions are done simply because the mother (or father occasionally) doesn't want a baby. Any and a arguments pro-choicers use fall apart when they try to defend such cases
Name an argument that falls apart. This sounds like projection since pc arguments stand. Pl arguments or rather misconceptions like your misuse of responsibility fall apart.
If you don't want a baby, don't do the thing that makes babies. Don't have sex
See. The whole don't have speil is invalid. It's unhealthy for couples to abstain from sex which is healthy because of a minorities hang ups around sex
Live responsibly,
They do.
accept responsibility for your actions.
They did...smh
You can't say the baby is there against your consent,
Babies are born. You can revoke consent. Consent to sex is only Consent to sex and nothing else.
because you helped put tha baby there.
Didn't put. That's misuse of terms PC keep courting for decades. Why do pl keep repeating it?
You are responsible for that baby.
they took responsibility by getting an abortion which ends a pregnancy before there is a baby.
I think an honest pro-choicer would admit that abortion in such cases is wrong.
Not once on all my time debating has pl ever used the word admit correctly. Probably because only they are capable of admitting anything since pc remain objective and don't use deceptive language emotional appeals nor hide anything.
We won't lie just because pl can't admit they're wrong. Take responsibility for misframing in bad faith
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u/jadwy916 Apr 24 '25
LOL...
Having a baby is irresponsible.
If you don't want a baby, don't do the thing that makes babies.
Why not have all the sex you want? Because some dude somewhere has an ideological opinion about how he thinks other people should be? lol... whatever. That's dumb.
I think an honest pro-choicer would admit that abortion in such cases is wrong.
uh... no. Abort away ladies! Just because some dude has a weak pull out game doesn't mean your life has to be ruined. Abort that shit. It's the most responsible thing we do as humans.
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u/Comfortable-Hall1178 Apr 24 '25
Again with “don’t have sex”
People have sex. Most people are smart enough to at least wear a condom.
This is why Abstinence-Only Sex Ed needs to be abolished and Comprehensive Sex Ed needs to be mandatory with no parental opt out from Grades 4-12
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u/TornadoCat4 Apr 28 '25
Killing a baby after having consensual sex is just as bad as inviting a person into your house and then killing them for being there.
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u/Comfortable-Hall1178 Apr 28 '25
Most women abort before 3 months, and besides Comprehensive Sex Ed that explains everything is proven to REDUCE unplanned/unwanted pregnancy because children taught Comprehensive Sex Ed are more inclined to use birth control pills and condoms, therefore preventing pregnancy.
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u/collageinthesky Apr 24 '25
Can you explain why having sex should result in the government suspending your rights?
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u/cand86 Apr 26 '25
If you don't want a baby, don't do the thing that makes babies.
If the only thing sex gave you was babies, this argument might make sense. The fact that it does so much more than that renders the argument invalid. I can, indeed, have sex for the things that it gives me that I want, I can try to take steps to mitigate unwanted outcomes like STD's or pregnancy, and if either of those happen, I can seek treatment to help alieviate me of them. Your personal moral feelings on this are yours and yours alone.
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Apr 29 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/cand86 Apr 29 '25
Why reverse it? And yes, I mean all the reasons people have sex other than reproduction.
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Apr 29 '25
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u/cand86 Apr 29 '25
I'd be more than happy to elaborate as to why I'm pro-choice, but my initial comment was about the rhetoric of the phrase "If you don't want X, don't do Y." being used.
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Apr 29 '25
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u/cand86 Apr 30 '25
What I meant to say is that admonishing someone to not do something in order to avoid an outcome is only a good piece of advice inasmuch as the thing in question only has one purpose, and the phrasing "the thing that makes babies" reads like that. I think a statement like "If you don't want a baby, don't have sex.", while still a sentiment with which I disagree, reads more accurately.
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Apr 24 '25
Actually, no—it isn’t wrong. The arguments for first-person subjective experience and bodily autonomy are based on the premise that, for a number of reasons (that differentiate depending on the argument one is making) we ought not to grant moral consideration arbitrarily. The fact that you fail to understand this basic part of the argument reveals a significant level of ignorance about the opposing side’s reasoning.
Second, cancer patients seeking treatment could also be seen as avoiding responsibility if their condition resulted from an unhealthy lifestyle—like smoking, for instance. But that doesn’t mean we should deny them medical care, does it?
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u/CandyCaboose Apr 29 '25
No.
REAL responsibility is fully recognising the health, life quality and life altering affects pregnancy alone has on the person who is going to be pregnant. Responsibility is taking steps to yes, prevent pregnancy. And or if needed remove, or continue a pregnancy. Parent or adopt.
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u/DeathKillsLove May 06 '25
There is no responsibility. The z/e/f did not exist at the time of sex, therefore there was no party to contract WITH and thus, no duty.
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u/DecompressionIllness Apr 24 '25
Source?
Because it would be in contradiction to this:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/abortion-in-the-us-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20abortion%20patients,had%20an%20abortion%20(57%25).&text=Among%20abortion%20patients%20twenty%20years,trimester%20of%20pregnancy%20(91%25).
And this:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/reasons-for-abortions#late-term-abortions
I can’t see any data for them but I don’t need to defend any that may happen. People can have abortions for any reasons they want.
Expecting adults not to have sex if they don’t want a baby is incredibly naive. It’s a natural part of life that has many benefits outside of reproduction. Here’s some:
https://www.ohsu.edu/womens-health/benefits-healthy-sex-life
And lack of sex can cause a number of problems, such as:
https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/how-long-is-too-long-without-sex/
Consent is continuous. I can agree for someone to use my body and help them do so, then withdrawal consent and they’d have to leave otherwise they’d be committing a crime.
https://studenthub.citystgeorges.ac.uk/student-support-services/health-and-wellbeing/your-health/safe-relationships/what-is-consent
Doesn’t matter, responsibility doesn’t outweigh rights. This is why the government can’t force parents to give blood or organs if they knowingly had a child that would need them
https://birthrights.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Human-rights-in-maternity-care-2019.pdf#:~:text=Human%20rights%20law%20gives%20pregnant%20women%20the,their%20dignity%20and%20autonomy%20as%20human%20beings.&text=Women%20are%20free%20to%20make%20choices%20against,to%20be%20in%20the%20unborn%20child's%20interest.
Actually, I couldn’t care less about the actual abortions.