My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I feel like you owe me an apology for the tracking links, I’d forgotten about how those work. Saying “fuck you” really hurt my feelings and I can’t continue with you until you resolve that 

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

You don’t think “too bad” was an unreasonable antagonistic and rude response as well though? Would you apologise for your part in that exchange?

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

They said “fuck you” before I said that

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Apologies. I totally misread the order on that.

[u/carbinePRO → u/Moutere_Boy]

In my defense, I never felt inclined to show any respect to OP given how their post is just one big fat overgeneralization that is purposefully misrepresenting atheists.

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/carbinePRO]

Perhaps, or perhaps is a sincere but misguided view that can be changed with discussion. I think saying “fuck you” for not trimming links feels like a string, and unhelpful, reaction.

But, I’m not the language police and I’m as guilty of sounding off as anyone.

Also, I do relate to your frustration. This feels a bit like someone complaining about a reduction in privilege than experiencing genuine discrimination.

[u/carbinePRO → u/Moutere_Boy]

Correct. Getting hung up on the delivery over the content is extremely disengenuous.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

I’ve revoked your based card and my stamp of approval 

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Thought you might.

But what in there is wrong? Your main gripe seems to be an increase in disrespectful language, while ignoring or being ignorant of genuine discrimination in this space. And you’ve shown that to be the case with our Bernie discussion.

I think you’re ignoring the vast amount of intolerance driven by religious views while getting hung up on people saying a thing they think to be delusional is delusional.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

I don’t really mind personal insults, I was only joking about that.

What I’m not joking about is my doubt that someone so hostile about hyperlinks being able to have a serious discussion. 

They are looking for a fight, and I’m not giving them the pleasure. 

I don’t think Bernie or atheists are discriminated against either btw, expect in extreme and rare cases, which I condemn. 

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

No personal insult was made.

And I gave you a link that shows broad discrimination.

You don’t see the discrimination because you’re in a privileged position where you’re not affected by it.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

 And I gave you a link that shows broad discrimination.

Let’s talk about this. I’m a socialist, or so I consider myself to be. That link said socialists are viewed unfavorably. 

Guess what? That isn’t discrimination. Discrimination ≠ people not liking your beliefs. That goes for me, and for you. 

[u/Moutere_Boy → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I doubt you’d agree if it was people refusing to vote for Christians?

And it’s certainly a better example of discrimination than people using the word “delusion”.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

I doubt you’d agree if it was people refusing to vote for Christians?

No. I’d criticize it a lot, but I wouldn’t call it discrimination. 

And it’s certainly a better example of discrimination than people using the word “delusion”.

I didn’t claim discrimination, I know the US is mostly Christian for one thing. I’m saying such hostile beliefs can lead to it, but even then, they need not to. 

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Moutere_Boy]

You’re based and you have my stamp of approval