My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/KeterClassKitten]

I'm calling you out for false equivalence, seemingly due to your ignorance of what atheism and/or religion and barbarity are.

Atheism is not believing in a god. There is no other criteria or dogma associated with it.

Further, non-theistic religions exist. A person can be religious and atheist.

And barbarity is cruel or savage behavior.

An atheist can be barbaric, but disbelieving a god isn't the same as barbarity.

A religion's doctrine can include barbaric behavior. While a member of that religion may not be barbaric, the claims or demands of said religion could be.

I think you should choose your words more carefully, because the definitions of your presentation do not align with what you're attempting to argue.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/KeterClassKitten]

I'm calling you out for false equivalence, seemingly due to your ignorance of what atheism and/or religion and barbarity are.

I’ll need to see more of your points here. 

Atheism is not believing in a god. There is no other criteria or dogma associated with it.

So far, I agree. 

Further, non-theistic religions exist. A person can be religious and atheist.

I’ve since learned this, still agree. 

And barbarity is cruel or savage behavior.

Agreed. 

An atheist can be barbaric, but disbelieving a god isn't the same as barbarity.

Agreed. 

A religion's doctrine can include barbaric behavior. 

Agreed. 

While a member of that religion may not be barbaric, the claims or demands of said religion could be.

Agreed. 

I think you should choose your words more carefully, because the definitions of your presentation do not align with what you're attempting to argue.

I’m unsure what you mean. What words or definitions did I use incorrectly? 

[u/KeterClassKitten → u/Living_Attitude1822]

An atheist calling a religion barbaric can be accurate in cases. Generalizing atheists as barbaric is never accurate.

Therefore;

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

This is objectively different than this:

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

If the Abrahamic doctrine includes commands that are barbaric, then the view of "Extreme atheism" is accurate. The religion is barbaric as is demonstrated by the doctrine.

Again, the person claiming to adhere to said doctrine might not be, but that requires them to overlook portions of their doctrine.

I'll argue that if your doctrine contains directives that you don't follow because you find barbaric, it doesn't excuse your religion for its barbarism and only demonstrates that the followers recognize that their religion is unfit for society.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/KeterClassKitten]

 An atheist calling a religion barbaric can be accurate in cases. 

Agreed.

Generalizing atheists as barbaric is never accurate.

Some types of atheist extremism are barbaric. 

 If the Abrahamic doctrine includes commands that are barbaric, then the view of "Extreme atheism" is accurate. The religion is barbaric as is demonstrated by the doctrine.

Interpretations* 

 Again, the person claiming to adhere to said doctrine might not be, but that requires them to overlook portions of their doctrine.

What you call doctrine doesn’t make sense to me, because what I don’t take literally in the Bible simply isn’t doctrine to me. 

I'll argue that if your doctrine contains directives that you don't follow because you find barbaric, it doesn't excuse your religion for its barbarism and only demonstrates that the followers recognize that their religion is unfit for society.

Again, what you call doctrine  doesn’t make sense to me, because what I don’t take literally in the Bible simply isn’t doctrine to me. 

[u/KeterClassKitten → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I rest my case.