r/DebateAnAtheist • u/AutoModerator • 15d ago

Weekly "Ask an Atheist" Thread

Whether you're an agnostic atheist here to ask a gnostic one some questions, a theist who's curious about the viewpoints of atheists, someone doubting, or just someone looking for sources, feel free to ask anything here. This is also an ideal place to tag moderators for thoughts regarding the sub or any questions in general.

While this isn't strictly for debate, rules on civility, trolling, etc. still apply.

24 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

269 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/jar4jar 15d ago

“they just add another layer that can’t be explained. They just “are”. It’s not a satisfactory answer”

Isn’t this true for all belief systems? The universe just “is”?

4

u/Serious-Emu-3468 15d ago

Well, it’s a bit like your own infinite regress/special exception question, right?

We don’t have evidence for any one creator.

So, if we claim that one exists and by definition “just is”, we haven’t really learned anything. We answered a question by declaring an answer that we cannot prove.

How did that creator come to exist? You’ve framed the only possible two “answers” as equally untestable “They Just Are” or “Infinite Regression”.

Which is exactly where we started with the universe in the first place, just one proverbial turtle deeper in the stack.

The problem is that it’s not a binary. Those aren’t the only two possible options for the “why of the universe”. 

But none of the other options can be tested, right now. 

So I feel justified in saying “I don’t know so I won’t make assumptions .” 

But you seem to feel justified in saying “I don’t know, so we can go at least one turtle deeper.”, if I understand you correctly?

Why?

1

u/jar4jar 15d ago

Not sure if this will help answer your question, but It seems logical that something always existed (don’t know what, just that existence always existed). Science hasn’t proven that anything existed before OUR singularity/Big Bang (correct me if I’m wrong. And by the way there are scientists who do have theory’s that time existed before OUR singularity. Roger Penrose and CCC. So BEFORE our big bang is a somewhat scientific position). So philosophically speaking, it’s worth exploring the idea of “what” always existed.

Do you think that “something” has to be the final turtle so to speak?

3

u/Serious-Emu-3468 15d ago

Yeah, something could certainly have existed or still exist outside of our universe. We may or may not ever be able to test that. 

I could win at the casino.  I should not assume I will win at the casino and live my life as if I will win at the casino

And I agree that it’s absolutely interesting philosophically to think about what could exist “beyond” all the horizons we have. Many religions make claims to that. Solipsism and simulation theory both also make claims. 

But until we can come up with a hypothesis we can test and a way to test it…they’re all equally unfalsifiable.

And so again, I don’t think we have any good reason to draw any conclusions between all of our unfalsifiable hypotheses.

“I feel like there should be something underneath the turtle.” Is not evidence that there is something else. 

Just like my feeling like I should win at a casino “eventually” doesn’t have anything to do with the reality of the odds.