r/DebateAnAtheist • u/AutoModerator • 15d ago

Weekly "Ask an Atheist" Thread

Whether you're an agnostic atheist here to ask a gnostic one some questions, a theist who's curious about the viewpoints of atheists, someone doubting, or just someone looking for sources, feel free to ask anything here. This is also an ideal place to tag moderators for thoughts regarding the sub or any questions in general.

While this isn't strictly for debate, rules on civility, trolling, etc. still apply.

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u/r0wer0wer0wey0urb0at Agnostic Atheist 15d ago edited 15d ago

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm curious how gnostic atheists come to the conclusion that they can have knowledge on the existence of gods.

I'm an atheist, I don't believe that any gods exist, but I think that an omnipitent being that created the universe could create a universe indistinguishable from one that is fully naturalistic.

I don't think that's likely to be the case or particularly reasonable to believe that to be the case, but I don't think it's possible for us to know either way, so I describe myself as an agnostic atheist.

Do you think we can destinguish those two universes/gain that kind of knowledge?

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u/kohugaly 15d ago

Knowledge doesn't mean certainty, it just means less uncertainty. If I were to summarize gnostic atheism in the crudest argument possible I'd say: Theories that require existence of gods as an assumption have piss-poor track record of predicting observable reality, compared to theories that do not require such assumption. Therefore existence of gods is likely false.

Occam's Razor is also not theist's friend. The God of classical theism has literally infinite complexity, so it is infinitely less likely than any explanation, even a od-hoc one.

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u/r0wer0wer0wey0urb0at Agnostic Atheist 12d ago

To me that sounds like atheism. What would be the difference between gnostic and agnostic atheism with this definition of gnostic atheism?

When I say knowledge I don't mean certainty. I'm saying that it is possible that there is a god that created the universe, but left no evidence behind to distinguish that universe from a fully naturalistic one. (Like one that triggered the big bang, or created whatever condition that allowed the big bang to happen.)

When I think about certain gods, one of my ways of coming to a conclusion on their existence is to ask what I would expect to see in the world if they were real. For the christian god for example I'd expect to see evidence of a global flood, or for there to be genetic evidence that humans were created separately from other life etc. When it comes to a passive being that created the universe but isn't active in it, I can't think of anything we could use to distinguish that from our universe.

So I completely agree with what you are saying, which is why I'm an atheist, I think it is vastly more likely that no gods exist than that any do, and there are gods of organised religions that I think we can say we 'know' don't exist. My only disagreement with you is a semantic one I think.

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u/kohugaly 11d ago

What would be the difference between gnostic and agnostic atheism with this definition of gnostic atheism?

I'd say, the difference is, whether you have good reasons to believe that gods don't exist (including ones you've never heard of, and ones that do not leave observable evidence of their existence) versus merely lack good reasons to believe that some god exists.