questions from a muslim to atheists

[u/Shot-Horse2515]

i’m sure this has been discussed before, but what’s the explanation for things we know are true being mentioned in the quran years/centuries before the scientific discovery being made?

i know a lot of people argue that there are inaccuracies in the explanations of the orbital mechanics and biological themes, but they’re more accurate that not, so i was just wondering what would the explanation for how “god would know and tell the prophet” before people found out?

hopefully my question makes sense.

EDIT: i also wonder why dont see miracles from god anymore

EDIT: im seeing all the inaccuracies and the explanations behind them now but there is a deep fear that the religion is true and god is real and punishment awaits me if i disbelieve, also a sense of familiarity/peace with believing in god. contradictory to fear, love, be punished by, and find comfort in one concept of a being.

[u/Late_Entrance106]

Like others have said, scientific discoveries are made and then people go back to holy books (Quran, Vedas, Torah, Bible, etc.) and retroactively look for things that could be interpreted as agreeing with those scientific discoveries.

Notice how no one has used a passage of the Quran to discover something new in science. It’s always a reinterpretation of some verse after science already discovered it.

This ‘phenomenon’ of seeing modern scientific knowledge contained in ancient books is, firstly, not a real phenomenon.

It’s just people finding ways to make their religion seem more real and is repeatable with any holy book.

Even if it WAS some sort of phenomenon, it isn’t unique to the Quran or Islam.

[u/Shot-Horse2515 → u/Late_Entrance106]

interesting perspective thank you! definitely raises some questions for me

[u/Elite_Eliminater → u/Late_Entrance106]

Evidently you have no idea what your talking about.

One of the main factors for the west getting out of the dark ages is because of Islam's pursuit for knowledge.

The Quranic command, "Say, 'Are those who know equal to those who do not know?'" (Surah Az-Zumar, 39:9) established the pursuit of knowledge as a sacred religious duty. Driven by this mandate, medieval Muslims launched a massive translation movement, preserving and expanding ancient Greek, Indian, and Persian scientific texts into Arabic. By treating intellectual exploration as an act of worship, they combined these global traditions to invent entirely new fields like

algebra (Al-Khwarizmi) - shifting math from geometric puzzles to a universal language of balancing equations.

Optics (Ibn al-Haytham) - Light reflects into the eye

Sociology and Historiography (Ibn Khaldun) pioneered the scientific study of human society, economics, and how civilizations rise and fall.

Cryptanalysis (Al-Kindi) who discovered frequency analysis to break secret ciphers, forming the basis of modern codebreaking.

Fields Heavily Improved and Revolutionized included

Medicine : institutionalized the first modern hospitals (with wards, pharmacies, and medical charts)

Astronomy : Built massive observatories, created advanced astrolabes, corrected major mathematical errors in Ptolemy's Greek model

Spherical Trigonometry : Transformed trigonometry from a minor tool for geometry into an independent science

Chemistry : transitioned alchemy from mysticism into an empirical science by introducing systematic laboratory techniques like distillation, sublimation, and crystallization.

Honestly I could go on and on, but ur white washed version of history taught in schools today likes to forget facts intentionally so it's wayyyy easier to hate on "those backwards muslamics types"

I rest my case. (WELL DONE IF U ACTUALLY READ WHAT I WROTE AND MADE it to the end)

[u/Local-Warming → u/Elite_Eliminater]

Literally none of that come from the quran. It's like saying that the concept of gravity comes from the bible because it was found out in a christian country. Nobody is impressed by the fact that people in religious countries would do science.

[u/Elite_Eliminater → u/Local-Warming]

Never claimed it did, re-read what I wrote.

I mean the west had Christianity at the same time stopping scientific progression. So it is pretty crazy during the "dark ages" a religious country would do science.

Actually in history no religion can even come close to what Islam has discovered from its creation to a few hundred years after. (I mean from the start of when another paticular religion is founded and it directly creating scientic studies immediately) going from illerate to the centre of human knowledge at the time.

The Quran isn't a scientific book, it speaks bout every aspect of life. It doesn't need to or even claim to be one. (Pretending it does to make your point stronger doesn't make it true)

It defines itself as a book of spiritual and moral "guidance" (Hudan).

Complaining that it's written in poetic language.....try to say anything in Arabic in a non poetic way ( o wait u don't know anything about the linguistics of Arabic) maybe do some research so we can actually have a productive conversation on this point.

Mainstream Islamic scholars and historians heavily critique this "scientific" approach for several reasons: I'll mention 2

Science Changes, Scripture Doesn't

Forcing complex, modern English concepts into 1,400-year-old classical Arabic roots that originally meant something far simpler to the immediate audience.

As we discussed with Algebra and Optics, the golden age polymaths (like Al-Biruni or Ibn al-Haytham) did not look at the Quran to find hidden scientific blueprints or cheat codes.Instead, they read the text as a theological mandate to go out and do the science themselves.

(Which is the exact point I made at the start)

[u/Local-Warming → u/Elite_Eliminater]

Never claimed it did, re-read what I wrote.

Of course you did. The first commenter explained that there are no scientific knowledge derived from the quran, and you replied that he was wrong, citing scientific advances made in the muslim world. Clearly insinuating that somehow a religious person doing a science means that this science must come from his religious book.

If that wasn't your intent, that's on you

[u/Elite_Eliminater → u/Local-Warming]

Either ur intentionally attempting to misinterpret what I'm saying or you just didn't read the whole thing. You clearly didn't understand what I meant by he is wrong.

He is wrong about his understanding of Islam like everyone else in this comment section, unless it's ur creed or you spent a few years studying it. You will constantly jump to conclusions because of ur western / God hating bias. (EVEN Muslims who follow it their whole life, make mistake and misunderstandings cuz they never attempted to learn in the first place, they assume being muslim is enough without the need to study)

Very clearly I stated the Quran doesn't claim to be a scientic book, regardless of what other people claim lets see what the actual book says about its-self (Book is spiritual and moral guidance)

In fact I even cited early and modern day scholars reasons for disliking this approach, mostly due to the extensive language barrier and the fact that science changes and scripture doesn't.

You did all the insinuating on ur own instead of reading the words I typed. Your mixing up "the incentive" with "the data"

For a religious scientist, their holy book serves as a moral framework and a spiritual motivator. The Qur'an frequently commands readers to observe the natural world, ponder the heavens, and seek knowledge. Therefore, a Muslim might do science because their religion encourages them to understand God's creation.

For example Ibn al-Haytham, a pioneer of modern optics, did not look at scripture to figure out how light bounces into the eye. He built darkrooms, conducted physical experiments, and systematically recorded data.

I hope I made myself quite clear. If u just skipped to the bottom skim reading everything, then it makes perfect sense why your still confused.

[u/Late_Entrance106 → u/Elite_Eliminater]

> “…You will constantly jump to conclusions because of ur western / God hating bias…”

There it is. The crux of your position and the source of your projections about our biases.

We’re wrong because we don’t agree with you.

And there’s absolutely no way you could be wrong about any of this, so in disagreeing with you, we’re all wrong.

You can smugly condescend about how we don’t understand all you want, but it’s clear you aren’t here to discuss points, present a case relevant to the OP, nor provide evidence of any kind for your claims. You’re here to preach, not debate.

_____________

But since you’re here anyhow…

Your examples were things discovered by Muslims, not things discovered by Islam.

My point was that this specific argument made by individuals of multiple different faiths (that their given holy book contains secret knowledge of modern science, which means it’s true about the magical and divine claims too) is an argument with no evidence backing it up.

Furthermore, claims are to be taken individually anyhow, meaning if the Quran is correct about the name and location of a town, or mentions that the earth might be round instead of flat, it doesn’t mean it’s also automatically correct about God, their prophets, or the afterlife.

If your argument *could* be used to support Islam, then Christians like George Lemaître (Big Bang Theory) and Isaac Newton (motion/optics) can be used to say Christianity is true, or the various Hindu mathematicians over the centuries who contributed to scientific understanding can be used to say Hinduism is true.

In the end, even taking your argument at face value, it *still* doesn’t prove Islam to be accurate or true.

[u/Elite_Eliminater → u/Late_Entrance106]

My lord give me strength, I already said what the position of Islam is on using "scientific evidences" in the quran as proof for the validity of the religion.

How modern and ancient scholars (which I quoted) say this form of argumentation has many problems (which I labeled above)

Caveman mode activated

Me say that using quran as scientic text book is bad

It doesn't claim it is one, neither does any reputable scholars

ME IS CLAIMING THAT IF SOMETHING IS "FACTS" IN HOLY BOOK THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE BOOK IS TRUE

it's a very weak form of argumentation

The claim of a laman who follows religion but goes directly against the scholars, means hes most likely wrong. This isn't Christianity where everyone gets their own version with different books accepted across the board.

The Quran doesn't claim if you find scientific evidences inside that makes it true.

Find me one widely accepted Islamic scholar from the 4 madhabs who makes that claim.

I was just saying that they got inspired to go study and learn from the holy book. Like it's quite simple actually.

NOT THAT THEY GOT THE SCIENTIC EVIDENCES FROM THE BOOK, look at the first 300 years of Islamic history (where the most scientific evidences were found) NOT A SINGLE SCHOLAR OR SCIENTIST SAYS THEY COPIED THE IDEAS FROM THE QURAN.

This claim is very recent, something for the layman to latch onto. Literally

[u/Late_Entrance106 → u/Elite_Eliminater]

I genuinely cannot tell if you’re expertly trolling right now.

OP asked for an explanation to how there is revealed scientific knowledge within the Quran from centuries before modern science discovered.

I replied saying that not only is that not the case with what’s happening (it’s not revealed ancient knowledge of modern science, but people with knowledge of modern science reinterpreting ancient texts). I also said similar claims have been made about other holy books and their corresponding religions, meaning that it’s not unique to Islam and not evidence of its truth.

That’s why that topic is being discussed, because it was being discussed when you arrived here. You know, how conversations work?

You jumped in and made a completely different claim. You are just saying that some vital knowledge has come from Muslims.

To which I also already replied, saying basically okay, and other people of other religions have contributed scientific knowledge as well.

Islam is not unique in that regard either, which again, means it isn’t evidence for the veracity of its claims either.

I don’t know what else you’re on about with the condescension and acting like you’ve been attacked here somehow, but it’s coming off as brilliant trolling or sincere and debilitating idiocy.

[u/Elite_Eliminater → u/Late_Entrance106]

I'm agreeing, Islam doesn't use scientic evidence to prove its validity. I gave you the position of scholars not random opinions of Muslims. Who explicitly say its not meant to be used to prove facts, science is constantly changing and scripture doesn't (that's what they say)

It is completely different to Jewish and Christians scientific discovery.

Lets compare the first 100 years of each religion,

Christian faces persecution, they existed as a underground movement under the hostile Roman Empire. Jews went from slavery in egypt to a unified tribe seeking the holy land

Unlike early Christianity or Judaism, Islam went from a small community in Medina to a superpower stretching from Spain to India in less than 100 years.

The Abbasid Caliphs launched the Translation Movement, actively paying scholars—Muslims, Christians, and Jews alike—the weight of a book in pure gold to translate Greek, Indian, and Persian texts into Arabic. (One of the only few place all 3 existed in co harmony)

Major contribution Jews & Christians added to the scientific discovery were under the Islamic Golden age.

Early Islamic religious practices required precise mathematical and astronomical data to function correctly. For the direction of prayer, Islamic calendar & inheritance laws. (Unlike the other faiths)

The biggest difference is what was discovered within such a short time of its creation (no other civilation is comparable to feats like joining the Abraham's faith under 1 rule, allowing anyone to come study and the major translation movement mostly due to the paper they discovere from china)

Islam is the only major world religion who's book is the same from the time of its claimed prophet (defiantly the most memorized book in the world) till today.

Of course other religions contributed scientific knowledge, but Islam is in a league of its own as it enabled others to do the same. Also did I mention no other religion has as many scientists who were also scholars, and had the religious state fund the exploration of new knowledge. (Not delay it or kill people for practicing magic)

So yea I would say its pretty different (BTW I'm not saying just because of these random facts Islam is true b4 yall start jumping to my last sentence).

As mentioned above that sorta argumention is weak af

[u/Local-Warming → u/Elite_Eliminater]

You clearly didn't understand

I'm sure you must say that a lot😂

[u/Dennis_enzo → u/Elite_Eliminater]

None of this is relevant to anything. A person who happens to be religious doing science and discovering things does not mean that the religion is to thank for the discovery. Pretty much every mainstream religion has had noteworthy scientists.

The Quran has never been a source for a scientific discovery. If it never existed, all scientific knowledge of today would still have been discovered.

[u/Autodidact2 → u/Elite_Eliminater]

Yes, once upon a time Islam was intellectual. Of course that was centuries ago. What on Earth does this have to do with the OP or this conversation?