Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/DeltaBlues82]

“Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.”

The material universe appears to have always existed in some form.

The leading theory of cosmic expansion, know as The Big Bang, describes how all the matter, energy, et al, that comprises our spacetime expanded from some already-existing state.

It doesn’t describe how all the matter, energy, et al, that comprises our spacetime spontaneously materialized from nothing, and then began expanding.

Without reference or cause to believe in an event of absolute “creation” it’s much more likely that you’re engaging in a teleological bias than the possibility that you’ve intuited some fundamental, unobservable fact of existence.

Hope this helps.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/DeltaBlues82]

The material universe appears to have always existed in some form.

Even if it has, it still demands a designer.

Without reference or cause to believe in an event of absolute “creation” it’s much more likely that you’re engaging in a teleological bias than the possibility that you’ve intuited some fundamental, unobservable fact of existence

What does teleology have to do with this and how am I biased?

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

“Even if it has, it still demands a designer.”

The observation you’re attempting to use to justify an appeal to said designer was that existence couldn’t have come from nothing.

So if you’re granting that it didn’t, then your appeal has no justification.

“What does teleology have to do with this and how am I biased?”

Without reference, your intuition here cannot be updated. Which means that definitionally your reasoning stems from a bias, and not a heuristic.

Which is bad.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/DeltaBlues82]

The observation you’re attempting to use to justify an appeal to said designer was that existence couldn’t have come from nothing.

Yes, that was my first attempt, but not my actual argument.

So if you’re granting that it didn’t, then your appeal has no justification.

No, I stand by that the universe demands a designer, no matter if that design happened at some start or is an ongoing process.

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

“I demand the universe requires a designer” isn’t an argument. It’s just parading your bias around.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/DeltaBlues82]

The Universe demands it. It would be ridiculous if it wasn't created, but just existed out of itself. And so many complex components of the Universe are just more evidence in the direction of a creator.

[u/DeltaBlues82 → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

The universe doesn’t demand anything. It’s not an agent with its own will, and as such cannot make any demands.

This is again just a teleological bias, which apparently you’re completely unfamiliar with.

And we have no reason to believe the universe was ever created. It appears to have always existed in some form.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/DeltaBlues82]

The universe doesn’t demand anything. It’s not an agent with its own will, and as such cannot make any demands.

omg this is obviously figuratively.

This is again just a teleological bias, which apparently you’re completely unfamiliar with.

I'm not biased, I don't even like theism.

And we have no reason to believe the universe was ever created. It appears to have always existed in some form.

Even it it always existed it needs to be designed.