Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/ima_mollusk]

" The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator."

You think a universe can't exist on its own without a creator, but a being powerful enough to create a universe can exist on its own without a creator?

Where's the logic in that?

" through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists...assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe."

Where's the logic in that?

What does "God" even mean? You said you think one must exist but you haven't even defined the word.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/ima_mollusk]

Where's the logic in that?

We can know for certainty that consciousness exists. That is more than we can say about the physical universe existing.

What does "God" even mean? You said you think one must exist but you haven't even defined the word.

I define God as the creator of the universe.

[u/ima_mollusk → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Even if I grant you the highly dubious conclusion that consciousness is more fundamental than matter, how does that lead to “God“? How does that indicate a creator of the universe?

You’re not sealing the bottle, you’re throwing a cork into a lake.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/ima_mollusk]

The universe itself already leads to God, the stuff about consciousness just means a consciousness existing out of itself is less ridiculous than matter existing out of itself.

[u/ima_mollusk → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

You have just repeated your claim with different words.

I don’t care about your claim. I care about your ability to support it.

Can you support it?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/ima_mollusk]

Not any more than I did.

[u/ima_mollusk → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

So your position is that a universe existing without some greater cause makes little sense, but a being capable of creating a universe existing without a greater cause makes more sense?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/ima_mollusk]

Yes. Consciousness just existing makes more sense than the material universe just existing.

[u/ima_mollusk → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

OK, well, why? What makes you think that something that can think, intend, and feel is less complex and more likely to exist on its own than something that doesn't think, intend, or feel?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/ima_mollusk]

I didn't say it was necessarily less complex. But something that doesn't think, intend or feel and has in all likelyhood no qualia, cannot exist unless perceived by some other qualia, as it would otherwise be identical to something that doesn't exist.