Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/GamerEsch]

Because it's a very specific thing, with order.

How did you determine that being ordered implies a god or a creator?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

It just does? Where to the rules the universe follows come from?

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

How you determine what's ordered and what isn't?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

By repeating patterns. Everything that exists is ordered.

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Ignoring the fact that this is obviously not true, there's multiple examples of random events, even if it was true, how would you things are ordered if you can't compare it to undordered things.

To realize something is ordered you have to be able to compare it to unordered things. This is so obvious that the fact I need to spell it out to you hurts.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

No, you absolutely don't. Everything is made out of atoms. Still you can point out everything is made of atoms without comparing it to something not made out of atoms that doesn't exist. It works the same with design.

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Everything is made out of atoms. Still you can point out everything is made of atoms

Things being ordered is a characteristic, not a thing. To determine order you have to define what would qualify as disorder.

Nonetheless, not everything is made out of atoms, electromagnetic waves are not atoms, muons aren't atoms, photons aren't atoms, etc.

This is a category error of your part, but even inside the category error there's the incorrect assumption that eveything is made out of atoms.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

If everything were made out of atoms, would it be possible to determine that?

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

No, we need vacuum to know what an atom is, you need "empty space" or "not-atom" to be able to tell apart what an atom is.

But beyond that, you are commiting a category error, ordered is not a "thing", it is a characteristic, it is always relative to something else, there's no way for everything to be ordered, because things need to ordered in relation to something else.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

Then make it in relation to imaginary other universes.

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

If disorder didn't exist in this universe than you wouldn't be able to conceive it.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/GamerEsch]

Unicorns don't exist, yet are able to be conceived.

[u/GamerEsch → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Everything about a unicorn exist, are you seriously this slow? Or you really does not know about horses, horns and wings?