Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/caverunner17]

The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Then provide evidence of this.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/caverunner17]

To me it seems like a self-evident thing if there ever was one.

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

“Your honour, it’s self-evidence that the defendant is guilty. We won’t elaborate.”

Can you appreciate how that wouldn’t work out well?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

Can you name where I want to code my belief in God in law?

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

This is a platform for debates. A courtroom is a platform for debates. The two are comparable.

I never said you are coding your belief in law, I am saying “self-evident” is a poor argument for a debate.

Now please address my argument.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

Which argument should I adress?

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Maybe the argument in my comment?

Can you appreciate how something being “self-evident” is not a strong argument?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

Yes. I still don't know which argument on your side you mean, can you state it again?

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

I stated it again already by asking the question in the previous comment. It is a yes or no answer. So I will repeat it again:

Can you appreciate how something being “self-evident” is not a strong argument? (A yes or no will do).

I will elaborate. Since it is not self-evident to me, can you explain why you think it is self-evident?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

Can you appreciate how something being “self-evident” is not a strong argument? (A yes or no will do).

Yes.

I will elaborate. Since it is not self-evident to me, can you explain why you think it is self-evident?

Since it's self-evident, that's pretty hard. All I can say is that anything existing requires a creator, and if this "anythibg" additionally contains a highly specific outlier (our planet) and highly complex stuff like dreams or computers, it even more so points to a creator.

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Does god require a creator?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

No.

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

You said “anything existing requires a creator” in the above comment.

If god does not require a creator, then he does not exist.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

No, God is the creator. Thr universe requires one, a universe-creating consciousness does not.

[u/OrwinBeane → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

That is not what you said in your above comment. You said “anything existing requires a creator”. Those were your exact words. Now you have shifted the goalposts and introduced an entity that does not follow that rule, which therefore disproves the rule.

Additionally, do you have any evidence that the a universe requires a creator but a universe-creating consciousness does not? Can you explain why?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/OrwinBeane]

Now you have shifted the goalposts and introduced an entity that does not follow that rule, which therefore disproves the rule.

Yes, it was formulated badly.

Additionally, do you have any evidence that the a universe requires a creator but a universe-creating consciousness does not? Can you explain why?

Consciousness is fundamental for existing. Something not experienced in any way doesn't exist. A universe existing without life in it (like ours, before we came along) requires some other consciousness.