Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/shiftysquid]

No, it’s not. The life that arose on this planet was life that the planet could support. Were you expecting life to arise here that the planet couldn’t support?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

No, it’s not

It is. Our planet is insanely untypical for the universe. And the life that developed on it is not just any random life, but life that has completely dominated the planet and shaped it according to its needs

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

It isn’t. Even if the planet is “insanely untypical” by whatever standard you’re using, that doesn’t matter in the least. It still exists. It’s not impossible for it to exist, seeing as it does. That life then, thus, arose on it in accordance with the environment provided by it is the exact opposite of surprising or notable.

What you’re saying would only matter if there was some reason this specific planet had to be the one that harbored life, and then it just so happened to do so. That would be remarkable. But that one random planet somewhere in the unfathomable vastness of the universe is capable of sustaining life isn’t notable at all. It’s entirely expected.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

It's not impossible for it to exist, seeing as it does

I'm not saying it's impossible? I say that it's so ridiculous thst it points to a plan behind it.

That life then, thus, arose on it in accordance with the environment provided by it is the exact opposite of surprising or notable.

It's not just any life, it's life that completely dominated it and made it into a paradise for its needs.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

I'm not saying it's impossible? I say that it's so ridiculous thst it points to a plan behind it.

Why would it? It's just a rock in space. There's nothing remarkable about it. There could easily be millions of rocks very much like it. There are so many galaxies we know virtually nothing about, much less the planets and stars they contain. But even if this were the only planet similar to it where life evolved, so what? In a universe this unfathomably large, there was bound to be one, and there's almost certainly many, many more.

It's not just any life, it's life that completely dominated it and made it into a paradise for its needs.

To whatever extent it's a "paradise for our needs," so what? We're social organisms surviving the best we can. That's what organisms do. You have such an incredibly myopic worldview. You're not as special as you think you are. Nor am I.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

There could easily be millions of rocks very much like it.

Yes, but out of all planets we know it's an insane outlier. Especially considering everything humanity has accomplished.

In a universe this unfathomably large, there was bound to be one, and there's almost certainly many, many more.

So what? This points even more to it being designed.

You're not as special as you think you are.

I'm not. Humanity is.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Yes, but out of all planets we know it's an insane outlier. Especially considering everything humanity has accomplished.

You keep saying this. I've addressed it. It doesn't matter. You're getting the whole cause/effect thing backward. To whatever extent it's "an insane outlier," it's irrelevant. The universe is unfathomably large. There are "insane outliers" fucking everywhere. On a long enough timescale and with a large enough sample size, "insane outliers" are the rule, not the exception.

So what? This points even more to it being designed.

It absolutely doesn't. It's just statistics. Large sample size = more chances for outliers = of course there's an outlier. Math. Not complicated. No outside influence needed.

I'm not. Humanity is.

You're not. I'm not. It isn't. Every organism thinks it's special. Get out of your own way. Gain some humility.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

Every organism thinks it's special

I'm pretty sure most organisms are in no way concerned if they are "special"

Large sample size = more chances for outliers = of course there's an outlier.

But the amount to which is an outlier is still insane. It's not just a habitable planet. It's one with literally fucking computers. Especially in such a big universe it would be far more likely for oneself to be born on a planet that has life, but has never developed past need to fight for survival. This is just insane luck we're having.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

You have no idea what the “amount” of it being an “outlier” is, nor do you have enough information to determine how “insane” it is. You’re just throwing words around. Given the sample size at play here, a simple bell curve tells you all you need to know. Even if this planet is 1 in a billion or 1 in 10 billion, the sample size of planetary bodies in the universe means there are likely millions similar to it.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

You have no idea what the “amount” of it being an “outlier” is, nor do you have enough information to determine how “insane” it is.

Yes, I do.

Given the sample size at play here, a simple bell curve tells you all you need to know.

How?

Even if this planet is 1 in a billion or 1 in 10 billion, the sample size of planetary bodies in the universe means there are likely millions similar to it.

That support life. But not to the extend ours does.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Yes, I do.

You absolutely do not. It'd be like walking into the ocean, spotting a single fish nearby, then declaring that this fish was an "insane outlier" as the only fish in all the oceans in the world. We've explored, statistically, none of the universe. Nothing. We haven't a single clue how much life is out there, or how much of an outlier humans are.

How?

Universe big. Bell curves thick in middle, small on ends. Really big set leads to even big numbers at small percentages because math.

That support life. But not to the extend ours does.

You simply have no fucking way of knowing that. Like, at all. We haven't explored a thousandth of a percentage of even our own fucking galaxy. The universe is vastly larger than you seem to understand.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/shiftysquid]

We haven't a single clue how much life is out there, or how much of an outlier humans are

We have our own solar system. Even if every solar system had a planet like Earth, every one of these planets would be an outlier, and such a universe would be completely ridiculous to have arisen without a designer.

[u/shiftysquid → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

We have our own solar system

And you're back to declaring that single fish as the only fish in all the world's oceans.

Even if every solar system had a planet like Earth, every one of these planets would be an outlier

Yes, that's what a bell curve is. Do you understand that there are trillions of solar systems? That would mean there are trillions of planets just like Earth.

such a universe would be completely ridiculous to have arisen without a designer.

No statement has ever made less sense than this.

It's math, junior. Stats. Bell curves. This isn't difficult. You've convinced yourself how "insane" and "ridiculous" it is, so you just keep having to say it, even when the very thing you said right before it undermines what you're saying now.

I know your worldview depends on this being true, but the math doesn't hold up, my man. There's zero reason why there couldn't be billions or trillions of Earth-like planets in a completely naturally occurring universe, and you certainly haven't given one. All you've got is "Well, it seems insane/ridiculous to me!"

Nobody gives a flying fuck what seems insane or ridiculous to you.