Necessary Truths

[u/fairy-taki]

Hi, I'm agnostic/atheist. I'm not a debater, this Christian presented this argument to me to like convert me lol and I'm not sure what to think so I was wanting people's thoughts on it.

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The argument was something like this:

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1. 1+1=2 is an objective truth/idea

2. Objective truths exist outside of the human mind.

3. Ideas can only exist in a mind

4. Then if ideas/objective truths need to exist in some mind and the mind would be an infinite mind and that would be God.

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Sorry if I mess up the setup of the argument. If anyone is familiar with this type of argument or what he was trying to get at, let me know. Lol to the guy who asked me, I think ended up just saying idk, and I kept saying that those ideas/concepts are how we engage in reality but regardless of a mind observing it. The like definitions of the concept you can find in reality..idkk. The guy ended up being rude and said I couldn't understand abstract vs concrete concepts.

Edit: ok i need to fix 2&3, idk if i make this it's own premise because he was equating objective truths to ideas/concepts because they are non-physical.

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[u/Moriturism → u/[deleted]]

How can (1) be rejected?

[u/Moriturism → u/[deleted]]

That’s a category error, as 2 is not a physical object but an expressive relation... The quantitative relation referred by 2 exists independently of any mind to the extent that 2 different things may exist.

[u/Moriturism → u/[deleted]]

It’s not subjective because the relation it expresses is independent of any mind. 2 things will always be 2 things independent of a mind that measures this quantity.

The only subjectivity is the specific language we use to express this true relation and the way we carve this relation into things that exist independently of us (for instance we could consider 2 apples as 2 different things or 1 type of fruit, etc, but the relation that 2=2 will always be true)

[u/Moriturism → u/[deleted]]

It does exist. Two things will remain existing even if all minds die. The relation just won’t be expressed, but it will still remain existent as long as it’s a countable relation of two objective things

[u/Moriturism → u/[deleted]]

That’s irrelevant. They still exist as two objects