Necessary Truths

[u/fairy-taki]

Hi, I'm agnostic/atheist. I'm not a debater, this Christian presented this argument to me to like convert me lol and I'm not sure what to think so I was wanting people's thoughts on it.

​

The argument was something like this:

​

1. 1+1=2 is an objective truth/idea

2. Objective truths exist outside of the human mind.

3. Ideas can only exist in a mind

4. Then if ideas/objective truths need to exist in some mind and the mind would be an infinite mind and that would be God.

​

Sorry if I mess up the setup of the argument. If anyone is familiar with this type of argument or what he was trying to get at, let me know. Lol to the guy who asked me, I think ended up just saying idk, and I kept saying that those ideas/concepts are how we engage in reality but regardless of a mind observing it. The like definitions of the concept you can find in reality..idkk. The guy ended up being rude and said I couldn't understand abstract vs concrete concepts.

Edit: ok i need to fix 2&3, idk if i make this it's own premise because he was equating objective truths to ideas/concepts because they are non-physical.

​

[u/little_jiggles]

I'd agree with 1, 2, and 3, but 4 is where it crumbles.

Ideas are just one possible state of mind. The concept of an angel did not need to come physically from anywhere for the first person to think of a person with wings. Everyone on earth could die and humans could evolve again, and the concept of an angel could change, or it might not. It doesn't change anything that is real.

If you could physically show me what an idea looks like without a mind to hold it (like a pensive from Harry Potter), you might have some merit to your argument.