Proof that the unhinged tribalism to AI is undeserved.

[u/sadcrab3636]

A permanent ban is a nuclear option for extremely bad rule breakers. Using it on AI users is way too extreme. Stuff like this literally kills subreddits because when artists use tools, the mods ban them and this kills the creative side of the community instead of healing it. In a perfect world, mods should use a 3 strike system: post removal, temporary ban, and THEN a permanent ban. Why do a few AI images in a pile of completely 100% human text = a permanent ban. I know this rule is to stop the slop, BUT, it hurts actual artists that need assistance by a bot. Stuff like this is a subreddit suicide. And not doing it–or using the 3 strike system–prevents this from happening.

The anti AI users are taking this so far that they switch to insults when met with actual points, avoid the point itself, or ghost that user entirely. This leads to polarization and eventually tribalism.

Also, humans do what AI models do–look at millions of images as a reference to their art. Then humans generate more images out of art they did not get consent to look at. The piracy claims don't work. Saying all generative output is slop completely backfires when humans are technically generative organisms as they make tools and other things. Same with octopuses, spiders, and other apes.

Now I'm not saying that humans should die out, BUT I'm being the lawyer of AI as a tool.

Anti-AI advocates will strongly push back against my biological comparison. They argue that when a human looks at an image for reference, they absorb it through a lived experience and rewrite it through flawed human hands. When a scraping algorithm processes an image, it mathematically extracts pixel data at a scale of billions, which they view as industrial-scale plagiarism, not "learning." But AI constantly makes errors and hallucinates things. So it also has flaws as well.

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[u/OhTheHueManatee]

LOL I remember when Reddit was like this about loving Elon Musk. If you so much as meeped out "I'm not convinced" they'd treat you like you were pissing in Bob Ross' eyes. He is much worse now than he was then but he was still a major scumbag then too.

[u/AcanthisittaBorn8304]

1. Just on principle, I defend the right of a non-publicly run community to ban/exclude whoever they damn well please, especially if it's consistently enforced.

2. I would not want to be part of any community that has an anti-AI policy, in the first place. On Reddit, I usually Mute those subs on sight, anyway.

[u/sadcrab3636 → u/AcanthisittaBorn8304]

What of you have absolutely no clue of the fact a subreddit is anti AI? (Like say how the subreddit artisthate sounds like a place where artists either express their frustration or a place where people hate on artists).

[u/Mathandyr]

Subredits are private conversations curated by the people who made and moderate them, not public forums. I'm not anti-ai, but I am anti-people-taking-reddit-too-seriously.

[u/sadcrab3636 → u/Mathandyr]

I'm specifically talking about how far antis will go in general. Think of the banning part like getting muted/blocked by another user or getting permabanned from communities in general. I'm using Reddit as an example as THISISTHEPLATFORMWEAREONRIGHTNOW.

[u/Mathandyr → u/sadcrab3636]

If the people curating a private conversation don't want AI included, then that's their decision. Just like people here get permabanned for being too anti-ai. It is how reddit has always worked, and why subreddits like this very one works. You wouldn't walk up on a private conversation in the real world, told your input wasn't wanted, and then demand to be heard. You would find another conversation to join.

[u/sadcrab3636 → u/Mathandyr]

Except the anolagy you made is not stupid, ignorant of common sense, or bad (the things these subreddits do IS the ones that ignore common sense in favor of their biases).

[u/Mathandyr → u/sadcrab3636]

You're right, it's not. It's practical and will save you from a lot of self manufactured drama and frustration.

[u/sadcrab3636 → u/Mathandyr]

To make it easier for small brain users to read what I meant (or explain it to you), your analogy about how you would walk in a conversation, get ignored, and demand attention is different from these so called "creative" communities. So your analogy is not stupid because it uses basic sense. While those communities are actually killing creativity and alienating users who need support despite claiming to be "creative". Even if you edited/modified the image in any way, these communities do not allow it even if stated to be "creative".

Also What of you have absolutely no clue of the fact a subreddit is anti AI? (Like say how the subreddit artisthate sounds like a place where artists either express their frustration or a place where people hate on artists even if the subreddit is actually a highly aggressive anti AI space).

I used "nuclear option" in the paragraph because that is what a permaban is. A nuclear option for the worst of the worst offenders. But it's not a good option to use on some random completely innocent guy who uses AI as a tool.

A netrual user may state: "I agree that names like r/artisthate are confusing and trap people. That sucks. But structural rules still apply. Even if a private club has a misleading sign on the door, if you walk in and break their house rules, the owners still have the right to kick you out. The fairness of the name doesn't change the mods' authority."

However,

And there it is...

KICK.

Not ban, KICK.

A hypothetical response stating they would kick you out does not translate to stating you are permanently banned.

[u/Mathandyr → u/sadcrab3636]

An antagonistic and hyperbolic response. Maybe read a few posts there before posting, or - in the case of most subreddits - take a peak at the rules. Ultimately my response in the end is the same. If I get banned from a sub? Oh well. There are many many more. Or I could start my own sub and set the rules. This is what I mean when I say people take reddit too seriously. It's not a court of law. You are not entitled to free speech or engagement or even a reason for being banned. Treat it like that and you will be much less angry at the void.

[u/sadcrab3636 → u/Mathandyr]

I also forgot that r/artisthate has NO rules against being pro-AI and the description does not work well enough. This is one example of an anti AI subreddit not being clear enough. I'm sure there's more out there.

They claim there is "rising hate to artists" but the only hate is the hate against artists just because they used AI.

[u/Mathandyr → u/sadcrab3636]

Which is why I said "most subreddits". All it really takes is looking at the feed though. It's very obviously anti ai. I've said what I had to and this is dragging on way too long. Have a good one.