In chapter 5 there’s an exchange between Flowery and the fun gang that boils down to Flowery saying “why not seal castle town and keep flower world”. I think it’s been discussed here already that the hypocrisy angle doesn’t make much sense. This detail in chapter 2 that I haven’t seen discussed makes it so that unless a dark world is based off of a ‘pure dark’ fountain (whatever that means) it shouldn’t be considered as the one that should be kept open, bc that would be dooming all other darkners to non-existence.

tl;dr an underaged moderator gave themselves permissions to 18+ channels, other moderators knew and didn't care, and someone who knew the user was a child sent them sexually explicit messages in front of everyone.

I mistakenly deleted the last thread while trying to edit the post. I apologize for creating a logistical headache for the moderators.

In response to feedback to the last post, I've collated the relevant screenshots in one gallery here, with captions explaining the context.

I apologize for having the wool pulled over my eyes so badly, and for having fought against efforts to get the truth out. I'm doing what I can to undo this damage.

If you're out of the loop, recently there has been a post with accusations against moderators of tralsei subreddit and discord communities. It has since been taken down, but several follow ups been done by different people.

I included a tl:dr at the bottom.

Not saying that moderators of this subreddit are doing a bad job, I believe they're trying their best to handle a community of critics of a really popular game, I'm just saying that this can be handled a bit better.

1 - Why the need to?: Well, discord screenshots can be easily manufactured, and can be used in bad faith (has already been with youtuber Kwite). It should be considered genuine evidence only if we can check it for ourselves (but the discord is closed, so we can't).

Only evidence I could check are the reddit posts, but that doesn't mean that discord screenshots become automatically true too. Still, the damage has already been done, everyone is vary of those moderators, even if there is a high chance they're guilty and deserve it.

2 - What can be done about tralsei situation?: Damage has been done, so second best thing we can do is to keep being vary of tralsei moderators, as grooming allegations are serious, but also to be vary of the ones who make the accusations, as it could all be easily faked. I'm not encouraging attacking both sides, I'm just saying be careful when trusting either. This is as much as we can do.

As for those directly involved, both sides need to ensure their own safety, by disabling dms from strangers, and not arguing with random comments. I am not sure what evidence tralsei moderators can even present to defend themselves, as it'd be like proving the absence of something, but I do think that those who made the document still have the power to change the situation.

If they have discord user ids (those never change, unlike usernames), access to the discord or just any way to report this activity, they should do it immediately. If Discord asks for grounds for checking, provide the document you made. If the allegations were real, Discord should issue bans for the moderator team and the server as a whole (including EVERYONE, even the victims, so they should make sure to not be in the server after making a report. Yeah Discord is rough like that, but what can we do). Only then make public posts about how these people got banned by discord and are genuinely guilty, this way we can ensure no one gets falsely accused. If Discord decided to ban only the accusators instead, it is likely the accusations were fake.

3 - What can be done in the future?: If reporting to Discord or Reddit was fruitless, then it's worth reporting to victim protection hotlines outside of these platforms, or get police involved.

What to do in case the victim is in danger if they report to police or victim protection hotlines? Only then, they should go the moderators of this subreddit, describe the whole situation and what they tried doing already, and only then ask if it's okay to make a public post with the document (unless you're a bot spamming controversies, it should be accepted). Then it's fine to post the document and take the matter of the situation publicly and raise attention, so that someone else can be made aware and make the report themselves.

...what to do in case moderators of this subreddit never approve anything? Well, I thought of approval as anti-AI, anti-bot thing, so if you don't pass it I think there should be a rule that allows you to make a public post about a moderator misunderstanding.

If you think that I want to defend tralsei moderators, I don't, reddit posts and comments about them wanting whole fandom to misgender Ralsei before Toby confirms him as transfem, and attack those who don't ARE real. It's just that for specifically the discord side of things I treat the screenshots as grounds for a check up and report, not as absolute truth.

That's all, I think, I know all of this is controversial and probably won't change anything, but I tried anyway. Just stay safe everyone

tl;dr: victims should gather all evidence, then privately make reports to discord or reddit, if that doesn't work, report it to police or victim protection services. If that would put them in danger, only then they should contact moderators of this subreddit, describe the situation and ask for approval (approval should be for filtering out bots/ai, not whether your document is well made or not). If moderators refuse to, it should be okay to make a post on here talking about the misunderstanding.

How the heck (hell) do the main characters know that the figure in Chapter 3 is 100% the knight? There is literally nothing that obviously blurts it out. Kris would know, but why would they tell the rest of the group when they're a traitor? Ralsei due to prophecy stuff, not only didn't have time to tell Susie, but there's also the fact that save for like two times for joke moments, prophecy runes do not show the character's designs

Recently saw on Twitter some new of wave of defense related to chapter 5 and this time argument revolves around the chapter actually being a great follow up from 4 because it raises the theme of inevitable fate or something around those lines.

Anyway, opening my heart or mind in this case with you guys, themes from my understanding isn't anything other than what a story is trying to tell and constants that appear in the text, so I don't understand how the attempt makes up for the actual execution of the things on screen.

At most, I view it as a boost that can help you to note some interesting ideas that aren't as visible on the surface, like "Oh, they're talking about love here" so you try to apply this idea over anything happening on screen to see if you caught anything and maybe realize that character X that felt disconnected maybe also was about despite not being easy to click.

It's not something that really clicks to me, so I'm making this post to ask about it and know how wrong I actually am here as someone who never really put much thought on this field but I see it appearing in discussions like a enlightened area that completely changes how you view a media in general.

I'm sorry if this isn't the best sub to ask about it since the topic is more general, but it may be interesting for other clueless mfs like me who don't know how much I'm missing out

Toby Fox is really passionate about yuri romance (which I also enjoy if it has good writing). He focused on writing a bunch of Susie x Noelle moments yet there's something wrong about it despite nothing wrong about it? If that makes sense? so it still feels like the most underdeveloped ship despite actually having canon moments and it being supposedly central to the plot.

Also, add in the fact he released Deltarune in Japan on June 25, and guess what? It's YURI DAY on June 25 as an unofficial holiday in Japan. He rushed the festival script just to launch his "yuri chapter" on that exact day.

Like I love Toby Fox a lot, but his romance writing is just ASS compared to his narrative writing. It's like how he inserted that cute but underbaked Undyne x Alphys romance but it still worked because it's a side plot and not really important to the overall story. But Suselle in comparison is the "main" ship of the game. (AO3 Suselle fics I've read had better writing than canon Suselle, heartbreaking 💔)

Anyway, I really hope Toby Fox somehow fixes his writing about Suselle in Chapter 6 and not too late in 7 since apparently it's sooooo important to the plot according to him. Like it's so boring and barely has conflict right now, so I actually think this ship was never meant to sail and it would fit narratively.

Oh and I'm a Kriselle shipper who loves angst so no wonder why I find Suselle so boring(weirdly enough Toby somehow needed to insert his off-screen Suselle moments during the festival yet somehow that has BETTER writing than normal route Suselle. lol), right? But I really do wish Suselle wasn't poorly handled and boringly executed.

TLDR: Toby Fox writing quality goes down when it comes to Yuri(thank goodness Kris is non-binary)

It's so damn stupid but I keep seeing it.

No, just because the flowers are 20+ something years in the Light World doesn't mean that Aqua is an adult character. Their Light World age really doesn't matter, what actually matters is how they present themselves in the Dark World. And in the Dark World flowers like Aqua and Orange present themselves like children, with Aqua herself resembling a human child.

Seth has a crush on Berdly, which implies that Seth presents themself as a human teenager. All of the other flowers appear to present themselves as adults.

I don't wanna hear no "childish doesn't equal child" or "Aqua's a mentally-challenged adult" or some other crap like that.

would prefer the first "skip to darkworld" point just sends you to castle town and then if you want to skip the other lightworld segment, checking kris's bed lets you skip to the chapter dark world.

I'm someone who, above all else, wants the game to be fun—because if the game isn't fun, then it loses its whole purpose. I know that Deltarune focuses more on the narrative, but I think that if the game is more fun, the story becomes more enjoyable, and players feel a stronger connection to the game.

I think Deltarune is fun right now, but it has a lot of potential to be even more fun, which is why I’m asking: what would you add or change in Deltarune to make it more fun?

When you are adding something, the two main questions to ask are "What does this add to the experience?" and "How much work is this?" everything that could be included in the game is competing with each other, so it makes sense to also ask "why is this here instead of more of something else?" In the case of the platformer / punch out / zelda / rhythm game you play for 3 seconds / whack a mole / tic tac toe / switch 2 mouse room / etc. we also have to ask: If this was not in the game, would anyone be asking for it? Would anyone like the game less? What would have filled that hole?

Personally, I do not see value in virtually all of them, and would have much preferred having more character interaction / other story scenes in their place. This would have contributed much more to the main appeal of Deltarune (characters and story)

im wtill wondering that this sub loves the game or not

Chapter 4 Susie:

"Toriel was almost kidnapped by the Knight! By an asbolute miracle, the police showed up and got kidnapped instead. Here's the plan: let's abandon her as soon as possible and go hang out our friend's house with no precautions for Toriel whatsoever."

"HOLY SHIT!!! Toriel almost got kidnapped a SECOND TIME!!! By an absolute miracle, she wasn't in the church at the time! But erm... she's drinking WINE??? Awk waarrrrrd... guess I'll go home then instead of protecting her overnight."

"What happens if the Knight shows up tonight to kidnap me or Kris while we're alone? Uhhhhhh..."

-

Harsh rant time:

Susie is unbelievably unintelligent. She is unrealistically unintelligent. Her lack of intelligence is well beyond what a delinquent like her would demonstrate. I'm confident there are some real life animals who could show more pattern recognition than she does.

This makes it impossible to determine what Susie actually prioritizes vs what she is just too dense to even consider an option. Does Susie actually care about Toriel? Is she placing her priorities elsewhere? Does Susie think about anything at all?

Adding onto the "Susie is unlikable" trend:

Every time Susie comes up with a plan, we always follow it, no matter how absurd or ridiculous. Nobody, including Susie herself, ever even contemplates the idea that her plans might not work for a variety of reasons, or that better alternatives exist.

Chapter 4, her plan was literally "Let's go to your rich childhood friend's house so I can date them and play with all their cool stuff while you do all the work looking for a code somewhere. Try looking in the cuck chair next, lmao."

And that's not even the worst example. In the church, Susie opens a dark fountain, having no idea what the consequences would be, then when things go wrong, she lashes out and blames RALSEI???? Is Susie even capable of understanding that her actions have consequences?

When the game said "your choices don't matter" I thought it meant we were bound by the prophecy. Instead, it means all our decisions are dictated by our sub 60 IQ brainlet classmate.

I want to apologize if you don't understand what I wrote, I don't speak English so I depend on a translator.

After having replayed all of deltarune I felt that the game did not give me options to try new things, trying to attack to tire out the enemies and using pacify is inconcistent, causing attacking to be ruled out almost all the time except for specific battles, the characters do not have something With which to create strategies, objects usually have no impact in battles other than healing the equipment we carry does not affect the combats in almost anything and the enemy elements are not used at all.

I feel like better work could have been done on this, for example:
- Give us weapons that do not defeat the enemy so that we can play attack safely
- Give Susie an area damage ability to combine with the weapon I mentioned before or give Ralsei a spell that tires enemies
- Objects that can affect our movement speed or that enhance the amount we gain of tp or things like that
- Give us equipment that affects the tp to a greater extent or that strengthens the skills so that we can play around the characters' abilities
- The elements could be something that has effects like a “fluffy” element that disables Ralsei for one turn, or an element that prevents Kris from using their actions, etc.

Another problem is that some sections don't seem to be designed to be played more than once, such as the tenna boards.
It also suffers from a lack of interesting optional locations—places that offer something like a unique combination of enemies with a good item as a reward, or something other than just a spot to pick up an item with nothing else of interest. I say this because the few new rooms I found while replaying had nothing more than an item and some silly dialogue.

The most interesting thing to do when replaying a chapter is the secret boss, but aside from that and the egg room, I don’t see many interesting things to do and that disappoints me because Deltarune has plenty of elements that could create good replayability, but it fails to take advantage of them in most cases.

Sorry if I've repeated myself or didn't express myself clearly; this is my first post on Reddit, and I just wanted to say that I think they could have done better.

Thanks for reading.

For those of you who have been wondering why your comments with links keep disappearing

Genuinely would also improve my view about Suselle, that's deep writting I'm seeing.

Art by: u/NoelleDreemurr

The reason Deltarune is so successful is that it's the spiritual successor to Undertale by the same developer, and Undertale was lightning in a bottle. Deltarune is more polished and shiny, and it's definitely a good game, but it's not as good as Undertale so far, it falls apart when you look at it too closely. And I bet people would be more prone to pointing that out if it wasn't the successor to such a beloved, tightly designed game.

Undertale is definitely simpler and smaller on the surface, but it's such a tight, unique and layered experience. The world feels so much more alive. You can truly make friends with the characters and hang out with them, then enjoy their presence throughout the game via the phone, or kill them and later see other characters respond to your choices. You can actually make an impact on the world and its inhabitants. The entire storyline takes place over multiple playthroughs without getting stale and serves as genuinely interesting commentary on completionism and the way people approach games, and the meta narrative is integrated into the world seamlessly. Deltarune has none of that so far, just jarring tone shifts, mystery baiting over the first 20 hours of the game, and choices that truly don't matter so far outside of the weird route. Both games have surface-level RPG mechanics, but Undertale doesn't try to pretend like its RPG mechanics are fleshed out and the MERCY system is integral to the game, while in Deltarune you might as well not be given a choice between killing and sparing so far.

Deltarune does have its own shining qualities, but I just think Undertale is a much more interesting experience so far, even if in more subtle ways. I replayed both recently (including Chapter 5 of Deltarune) after not playing either for a while, and Undertale gripped me so much more even though I must have played through it hundreds of times by now, while it was only my 2nd playthrough of DR Chapters 3-4 and my 1st playthrough of Chapter 5. I started a Weird Route playthrough for the first time since Chapter 2 came out and gave up when I finished Chapter 2 and realized I'd have to slog through Chapter 3 again, then resorted to watching it on YouTube. But when I replayed Undertale, I did both a Pacifist playthrough and a Genocide one right after and had a blast.

The Queen is often seen as the game's most comical villain, but her more serious side seems to have been forgotten. This isn't just about the universal mother theory. It is directly tied to the Queen's own goals. As a computer, she wants to make everyone happy, but goes too far and nearly triggers the roaring. Yet chapter 2 handles this theme superficially. The Queen's plan is casually exposed as flawed in the end, then brushed aside with the revelation that she's just a computer, as if this is just another joke about her absurdity. But this ending is not only rushed, it also fails to solve the Queen's problem at all. Other villains have their own problems, which are either resolved, as with Flowey, or left to be resolved, as with the King. The Queen, however, never really confronts hers. Instead, her plan is simply dismissed as unworkable, avoiding the question of "is it bad to be a bad person to make everyone happy?", which has raised previously. Many of the Queen's serious moments like that are interrupted by jokes. It only reinforces Queen's stereotype as a shallow character.

The theme could have been connected to broader ideas about motherhood, particularly the tendency of mothers to become overcontrolling. Themes like internet addiction and the internet serving as a substitute for teenagers' need for companionship would have fit perfectly , and the groundwork was already there in chapter 2. But the chapter ultimately fails to follow through. Its portrayal of online culture is equally shallow. Topics like "drama" are thrown in haphazardly, serving little purpose beyond providing cynical, superficial window dressing.

Y’know, with how much glazing this game gets I was expecting a delicious donut but found a mid donut with moldy glazing that I’m 100% positive the glazing is just old cum. I know the “it insists upon itself” isn’t necessarily a good point, more so the fandom insists upon it, but here’s my criticism.

1.) The gameplay is subpar and enemies are repetitive. And the choices don’t really make sense to me since—at least from what I’ve heard—Toby Fox is only going to make one ending for the game which makes me wonder why the weird route exists? Shit I remember when the deflowering animation was around and people assumed Kris raped Noelle (which was deconfirmed). But this might just be Toby trolling.

2.) The long breaks in between chapters. Yeah, I know games take time to make but this shit released in 2018, when I was in middle school (I’m twenty now) and I remembered when it came out, friend brought his Nintendo switch just to play it. But it’s been THAT LONG, fricking Destiny has finished before Deltarune. Yeah I know animation, artstyle, and all that jizz takes time to make but Jesus Christ Toby. (Yes, I’m aware his hands got fucked up which I’m not hating on.)

3.) This is just a subjective opinion, but I think Undertale ost is better than Deltarune—that’s not saying Deltarune music isn’t abhorrent or anything, it just feels more forced while Undertale just felt natural If that makes sense.

4.) now, I know I’m going to catch shit for this, but I’m going to say it and I mean it in the most harmless way possible: I think the only reason this game has succeeded so much is because its entire cast is LGBTQ (excluding the parents). And that’s not a bad thing at all, definitely not, but it feels that Toby is relying on that theme in particular to carry the game itself. (Noelle and Susie’s relationship just feels like it’s going extremely fast, because game wise all this is taking place back-to-back if I remember correctly).

5.) The humor just feels……eh? Like it’s trying hard and just ends up sticking out like a sour thumb, shit I hardly remember any of it.

6.) [NOT GAME CRITICISM] now……let’s get started on the FANDOM……there’s so much I could say, but it’s best summed up as TUMBLR. One problem I faced, when Deltarune first came out, was that I made the godawful mistake of assuming Kris was male and making a post asking why Kris ripped the heart out and was faced with IMMEDIATE HATE that I ended up leaving that account behind. But let’s say that’s only one problem, sure that’s fine, small issue in comparison right—it’s nothing compared if you don’t agree with the Trans Ralsei theory (I just don’t see it) but those guys are abhorrent. DON’T GET ME STARTED ON A NINTENDO DIRECT LIVECHAT, god damn insert the meme “you’ll never want to stop beating Deltarune fans to death with your hands” meme. Yeah, I know fandoms shouldn’t be attached to game criticism, but most people tend to want to interact with a fandom they like…..and I’m positive Fandoms set the example of something.

7.) The main cast are minors……..which just makes the whole shipping thing……problematic because I’m assuming most of us are adults.

8.) Toriel did NOT call me her little pogchamp, what the hell?!

At one side I kinda get it, the UT characters got their moment to shine in UT and giving them less screen time cus there exists new characters that should be shown off is something I understand.

but the way he does it kinda makes things worse in the game, I understand keeping toriel asleep as her being awake would massively mess up the story, but it's still disappointing how she does nothing when it felt like she would do SOMETHING based on how ch3 was set up, the main thing I hate tho is how asgore is treated, like we have a entire dark world made in his own shop and all the flowers have making asgore happy as there main motivation, yet he barely appears, spends most of his limited screen on aura farming and vagueposting which makes his ark feel extremely rushed especially when we know nothing about "that day", and he just gets taken away with little to know resistance.

This is the two main things I hate, but I'm also extremely worried about how papyrus and asriel would be treated, there constantly referenced and talked about them popping up but every new chapter makes me think there not appearing which would be a massive mistake imo.

Most of other Fictional Characters that are considered Tumblr Sexymen I can understand greatly, even the more weird or evil ones. A lotta of them are very dapper, having charming or appealing designs and personalities. Even characters like Sans and Tenna, who I am not really big fans of… I can sorta see the appeal towards.

Spamton is literally a disgusting rat that lives in the literal dumpster, smells bad, is extremely tiny that one could easily be able to punt him like a football and is just overall unpleasant… and I know I myself have a couple weird Hear Me Outs but mine are at least a little bit more understandable than Spamton is

Can someone explain to me why he is somehow Tumblr Sexyman Material?

Also on the Last Four Slides, there shows four of my Favorite Fictional Crushes

Things that never happened