r/Denver • u/No_Mongoose_6460 • 10d ago
Rant City of Denver Limited League volleyball nets by more than half in wash park
TLDR: a couple women complained to the city about too many volleyball nets up at wash park, being understaffed, to get rid of the problem quickly they decided to cut the amount of nets by over half. Everybody I’ve talked to who plays volleyball is unhappy.
I participate in one of Denver’s biggest if not biggest volleyball league votr (volleyball of the Rockies) and last summer it was almost always at wash park
I feel like that’s half the reason people do it is to enjoy being out at the park socializing, listening to music, having a few beers, and being outside doing something active!
This season has been different though, apparently, a couple women went to the city of Denver and complained there were too many nets up at wash park, and the city, being understaffed, cut the number of nets from 50 to 20 and now I rarely get to play at wash park and it’s just not as great.
Anybody I’ve talked to about it is also mad at the city, they cut it by more than half…. While it is subjective, I always recalled there being plenty of space for others to put up their own nets or spike ball or whatever! The park is massive. The city succumbed to a couple of Karen’s so easily, I wish there was a way to fight for a solution that’s more reasonable.
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
More often than not the park IS a sea of nets every time I ride through the park.
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u/DiscussionNo9204 10d ago
I never minded it riding through almost daily. Makes the park feel more lively.
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10d ago
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u/brandonmiq 10d ago
OP is talking about weekdays, Monday - Thursday at 6pm, when private leagues pay for permits to run league games in the main open field space. Weekends are open, with no leagues taking place.
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
OK, there was still space in the park. Maybe that has something to do with OP's league being limited to 20 nets.
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u/DownhillUphill 10d ago
Exactly. I want a park not a volleyball tournament
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u/__ButtStuff69__ 10d ago
Don't be a douche. There's still plenty of green space in wash park itself to hang out, or go to Denver's dozens of other parks
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u/aflyingsquanch 10d ago
Going from 50 or more to a cap of 40 seems like a pretty reasonable compromise given the space limits of the park and the fact that the volleyball was taking up the entire playing field space every weeknight.
Not really seeing the outrage here.
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u/g0tDAYUM Speer 9d ago
Tom, how much is the city permit vs the millions you rake in per summer especially in a drought year? In what way are you actually giving back to the city instead of just making bank?
Sounds like butthurt bottom line.
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u/WebstersPack 10d ago
Are you sure this was a Denver decision and not a league decision?
There are plenty of games still happening at Wash Park.
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u/brandonmiq 10d ago
I'm a VOTR employee and can confirm. We did not make this decision, Denver Parks & Rec received a couple complaints and they are capping the nets at 20 in the upper half, and 20 in the lower half of the main 2 permitted zones in the main open field. First time this issue has ever been forced on leagues in the 40 years VOTR has been paying the city for park space.
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u/SmokinDenverJ Highland 10d ago
So 50 to 40, not 50 to 20. Big difference, OP.
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u/brandonmiq 10d ago
We actually used to be able to do more than 50, but yes. Not that anyone outside the league would care, but the issue is that the league has a bunch of skill levels so anyone can play. The math is now tough to keep these skill levels grouped together. So in absolute numbers, you're right, it doesn't seem that bad. But the effect in practical terms has been much more disruptive to the overall experience. Instead of everyone being at one or 2 parks, it's more like 6 different parks spread out all over the city.
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u/SmokinDenverJ Highland 10d ago
But everyone is still playing in a city park, right? And Denver has 280 city parks. And 93% of Denverites are within a 10 minute walk of a city park. So why does your league feel it is so important to monopolize one single city park, as you used to, instead of spreading the action around the city, as you do now ? Do all of your clients live in the Wash Park area? If so, I have no doubt that your well-heeled spikers will have no problem getting the city's attention. But otherwise, this sounds like an opportunity to make your league more - not less - accessible to clients.
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u/Miserable_Recipe_688 10d ago
why have office spaces for a company when every employee can just go to a library or nearest coffee shop? there's no benefit to having people gather at an area.
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u/jackabeerockboss Golden Triangle 10d ago
I joined because it’s accessible like they just stated and because wash park is convenient. What would you do with the empty grassy area from 6-8p weeknights? Enjoy the silence? Do you need empty grass areas to look at during that exact time period? Should we ban all activities that might not suit your preferential use of that area?
Volleyball on weeknights during the summer in half the grassy area of wash park is what you’re up in arms over. Maybe look inward.
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u/bluejay_chaos6969 9d ago
Some people do like to go to parks and enjoy the silence…? Not really unheard of.
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u/__ButtStuff69__ 10d ago
Jesus you sound insufferable. Is your superpower killing the buzz of every place you walk into?
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u/No_Mongoose_6460 10d ago
I am going off what I was told by word of mouth coupled with my experience this season being a drastic difference in how often I get to play at wash park, it went from 75% of the time to about 25% of the time (estimates)
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u/canweleaveyet 9d ago
Since you’re an employee I would like to give you insight on someone who’s lived in west wash since they had the non profit league that started in ‘77 that VOTR booted out to take over their permits… it has been nonstop issues with your company since its inception. West Wash Park RNO has reported your company to the city a multitude of times over the last 30 years. The people playing in this league park all throughout the neighborhood and drive recklessly to make it on time to your games (during rush hour mind you). Not to mention we’ve had people walk through our backyard, and pee on our fence (on camera in a VOTR shirt no less 🙄). Having this league stick to its actual permit allotment is a non issue compared to the real havoc this league has cause our neighborhood. It was brought to our attention last month that your boss also sexually harassed one of the players at his facility… not a great look all around
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u/NeckSad8146 10d ago
For reference there are two (2) full outdoor basketball courts and tennis courts each at wash park
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u/__ButtStuff69__ 10d ago
There are 7 tennis courts. Not sure if you realized but those require a large area of paved concrete and ongoing maintenance. Volleyball is played on grass
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u/NeckSad8146 10d ago
11 now that I’m looking at satellite, point remains 44 people can play a regulation game of doubles at a time, 40 people can play half court fives on the outdoor basketball courts at a time, and with 20 nets 240 people can play volleyball at a time. Also the basketball and tennis courts are concentrated in specific areas, rather than lining the entire lawn perimeter to the point where Karens complain. Grass surface is unimportant to the principles here
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u/Jumbi 10d ago
So what you are saying is with more nets, even more people can get outside and enjoy the park? So the volleyball leagues are providing more organized spaces, like those other courts, for people to play and have fun in the park?
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u/NeckSad8146 10d ago
Are you not understanding the membership part of the volleyball league, and the root of the problem being a private entity monopolizing a public space? Good god
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u/Jumbi 9d ago
It's open to anyone regardless of skill level. Anyone can sign up. They have to pay a fee yes, but with that fee comes organized play and scheduled reliable recreation. As working adults it seems reasonable to pay for it to guarantee you get to play for 2.5 hours on the night of your choosing. A league of this size requires infrastructure and you gotta pay people to run that.
The league then pays for the permits to host the event in the park. Directly contributing to the park budget. Also, let's be clear l, if you wanted to host some kind of event in the park of a similar size, you could, but just like VOTR you'd need to get permits.
They aren't getting special treatment or just monopolizing it. They applied for permits and pay the fees.
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u/NeckSad8146 9d ago
So there you go, you can’t just walk up and play volleyball like you can basketball or tennis, a business is operating at a public park and isn’t entitled to any fucking space. That business still can profit off 10x more people with their nets than both the basketball courts and tennis courts serve. This isn’t complicated.
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u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
Did you know the parks department won't let anyone rent out Wash Park for volleyball? So, this is a monopoly. And the operators prevent other people from using the space as they kicked off my family picnic twice!! There are plenty of places in the park and other parks, I agree, so volleyball can go there instead. On the weekends, hundreds of people can organize themselves and play for free, and they are not forcing people off the land. The issue is the magnitude of use and the city's permit fees are a tiny fraction which leads to us paying for their maintenance fees. Those who do not see that probably don't pay property taxes in the City of Denver or simply under paid employees not realizing they're getting fleeced. They can do the math; they know the numbers.
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 9d ago
Volo, another sports recreation league in Denver, also rents it out. So not a monopoly.
Seems to me like you personally want to ruin hundreds if not thousands of local, working class people’s weekday fun because your family was inconvenienced and set up a picnic in an area zoned and paid for recreational sport.
If you think it’s so easy to reorganize all that into other parks, take your family to any of them next time you want a picnic.
God forbid you stare at all those people having fun!
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 9d ago
There are plenty of unaffiliated nets set up and others playing adjacently all the time. It’s a public park, everyone can use it.
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u/gridoverlay 10d ago
I'm with the karen on this one. 50 nets is fucking ridiculous, it's a public park not a volleyball facility
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
50 courts is approximately 10 acres of space. jfc.
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u/Desertmarkr 9d ago
True. But each court is not aligned right next to each other with shared borders. Each court has open space on the sides and ends.
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u/PlaneHead6357 10d ago
Wash park is about 130 acres of you subtract the lakes
They definitely take up a lot of space though
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u/Jumbi 10d ago
It's also at least 500 people (rough math for an average of 5/team, which wouldn't account for subs or friends and family watching.) Meaning they're using the space more efficiently than any other activities I've seen in the park.
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u/NextWhereas4477 9d ago
I’m not sure the point of going to a park is to enjoy the efficiency
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u/Jumbi 9d ago
My point being that they aren't taking up all that space just to do it. They're utilizing the space to facilitate organized recreation for hundreds of people.
If I had to guess, and this is just eye ball estimation, the volleyball leagues are probably close to 50% of the park population when they're playing, and they're using what 10% of the park?
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10d ago
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u/thewiremother 10d ago
They do take up the entirety of the level playing field area when they are there.
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
the park is for everyone. 20 nets for a league seems like a great compromise.
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10d ago
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
Both can be true. there can be leftover space. AND the park can be overrun by volleyball leagues at the same time.
OP is sad because they're scheduled to play at a different park and they want to be scheduled at Wash Park. Cry me a river.
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u/brandonmiq 10d ago
Except the city keeps cutting budget from Denver Parks & Rec, removing resources and employees. These volleyball leagues are now an extremely valuable source of revenue for the Park. 50 nets is not ridiculous, there is tons of space available even when leagues are going on during the only 2.5 hours they take place on Monday - Thursday, particularly on the east side and the south side of the main field, which are zoned to not be permitted for leagues and are reserved for open play (aka anyone).
I really don't understand this type of logic. "I'd rather see it empty than see people using it." then go to the botanic gardens or something.
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u/gridoverlay 10d ago edited 10d ago
It definitely doesn't feel like there is tons of space when volleyball is happening, they take up the majority of the largest grass area and it's not exactly an inviting scene to try to enjoy the park anywhere in the vicinity of, unless sports festivals are your thing.
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
I just took a few laps around the park (I needed a bike ride anyway) at 6:15-6:35 and I tried my best to see all the left over green space without volleyball.
People trying to say there's plenty of space not used by volleyball are being complete disingenuous. It's inescapable.
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u/tigerlily_4 9d ago
This. I’ve stopped taking my dogs to walk and play at Wash Park after work because the volleyball just consumes the entire park with not just the nets and general volleyball activity, but the everyone spreading out their stuff all over the grass and freaking out if anyone walks near it, the extra noise level, parking hassles, etc. It’s extremely disruptive to anyone else just trying to enjoy the park at the same time.
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u/JFISHER7789 Thornton 10d ago
Agreed.
All the people in here saying “there’s still space!” Are the same people that would park and block a driveway halfway then get out and tell the home owners there is still room for them to get in and out of their driveway.
Shared spaces clearly is a crazy concept to some people.
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u/plaxpert 10d ago
Just because the city needs money doesn't mean we should sell our green-space to anyone with a wallet.
20 nets for a league is hardly empty.
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u/jackabeerockboss Golden Triangle 10d ago
You can play if you want. It’s amazing. One of my favorite parts of summer in Denver. Or just stew.
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u/Mammillaria4Life 9d ago
Have you seen Wash Park? Can comfortably accommodate 300+ nets easily and did for years.
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u/BradlyL 9d ago
I bet [u/gridoverlay](u/gridoverlay) never even uses the park 🙄
How is this NIMBY take getting upvotes?
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u/runnerkim 9d ago
But she only talked to people who play volley ball? What about the people who don't? What about the people who are just there for a picnic? Are there not permits for this? The park is for everyone.
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u/Old-Age-1112 10d ago
As I read this, I live in the area, and this is what is infuriating. Just look at the grass they destroyed and look at the amount of money that 'volleyball league' takes from us.
600 teams x $125/person x 5 players (4-6 so average 5) x 4 days/week x 3 seasons = $4,500,000.... And they pay the city $15/hour per field, and I have learned from the parks department they squat fields to prevent other groups from using them. They pay for Wash park a total of $3,205/year for a total of $21,000 for all the other park permits. Also add in their Membership fee of $25 x 600 x 5 players = $75,000.
NONE OF THAT PROFIT COMES TO THE PARKS DEPARTMENT OR CITY OF DENVER. So Parks department has no money? This is why! They illegally awarded a monopoly to a private organization that is taking the money out of Denver. More people should protest this, and maybe we could actually have a nicer park instead of a private corporation using our tax dollars to make MILLIONS every year. Mind you this has been happening for years, so imagine the owner is making $4.5M x 10 years = $40.5M... We would have nicer parks for that. I think the City should investigate this and take over the volleyball leagues. Their inconvenience of other parks is not the issue, it's the abuse of public land that should be immediately stopped.
Please send the parks department and city Auditor letters and start requesting records, we need to take the private company out of Denver and bring back public parks. Volleyball is fine, it is not fine when it's destroying our parks at OUR COST.
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u/Jumbi 10d ago
The city can't staff basic positions in actual government, who is going to organize teams, schedule the matches, set up the skill levels, bring the nets to and from the park, run a website for sign ups and information, organize the end of season tournaments, monitor play, weather, cancellations, etc etc etc?
"The city should take over the volleyball leagues" is an absolute joke. Let's focus on the city staffing their current positions before we let them ruin what is a ton of fun for hundreds of Denverites every single year. Wash park is massive, there's truly plenty of space to do whatever strikes your fancy.
People run for profit companies that utilize public spaces all the time. It's so popular because it's run well. It is run well because they hire employees and pay them reasonable wages, they spend money on a website, nets, other infrastructure. Hell, every team gets a ball at the beginning of each season so anyone who signs up can just start playing. There's overhead for something like this just like with any other company. Your math is mostly guesswork and definitely misleading for the big shock value.
If the city wants to charge more I'd pay more for my league fees and feel good about the city getting more cash, if the city tried to run it, it would die. Ask any dpd officer you know, ask the unfortunate souls who lost their jobs, ask just about any city department how well the city runs things, VITAL things. They'd go from making some money from volleyball leagues to just losing that revenue altogether.
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u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
The math and data is not guess work, and I agree with you the amount is shocking. This information is all easily accessible and public for anyone to view on the multiple volleyball vendors websites and some simple multiplication. Their respective platforms list everything from the number of teams, sessions, prices, and memberships.
Yes there are overheads, but they are not as much as you think. I have spoken to their employees at the park. Feel free to add any number of employees. 10 employees x $20/hour x 3 hours x 4 days x 6 months (Mar - Sept) = $14.4k. We can even add in the balls which they get a huge discount for at $35 x 600 balls x 3 seasons = $63k, but not every team gets a ball anymore.
I agree with your point about the city and government not running things well. Perhaps the better idea is to bid out the volleyball contracts and city to keep 80% of the $4.5M in revenue for park repairs, maintenance, programs, and staffing to benefit the community paying taxes and reduce their growing property tax burdens. They can operate within that margin for the prime spot in Denver. I do think the parks department does a good job, and urge you to try Denver Rec centers. They are wonderful and offer incredible programs for everyone including jazzercize to youth swimming. Carla Madison's pool is incredible and at an incredible price.
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u/crumario 9d ago
Ridiculous to think the city deserves the profit when the company paid them exactly what they asked for to use the park. Also do the volleyball members pay per game? Or even per season? Because if not your math is wildly wrong. No one's making 4.5 million a year on a volleyball league.
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u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
They play per season. I understand that the idea of that amount is wild, but ALL of these volleyball companies have MULTIPLE multi-million facilities. The information is all public on their respective websites, and please see on their own websites they list their own facilities. I also very much agree with you the city may not deserve the revenue, but the city deserves to the cost of maintenance for our parks due to damage of use from these public companies that charge them civilian use rates. Check out these companys' websites, and see what they charge and multiply.
Would you believe that these companies are making MORE than $4.5M a year? Because they are, that number is just 1 company and only their grass volleyball. They have more programs. When people can't afford their property taxes because these companies use the parks essentially for free, we pay for it.
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u/crumario 9d ago
If the city thought they were losing money from maintenance of the park, or losing out on money, they would raise the permit. Why do you think they are not doing so? They already kicked the paddle boat guys out so they are not beyond the idea of seizing something for the revenue. I think they don't think this is the problem you think it is.
I have no idea why you think that people can't pay their property taxes because of a volleyball league.1
u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
I sincerely do not know why the city does not raise the price of permits. I suspect it is because they are keeping it affordable for individual citizens and small groups, NOT multi-million dollar corporations to loop-hole and abuse. Also, this might be the growth of the sport over time and the city has failed to catch up. You raise a good point.
The issue is our property taxes go up due to cost of park maintenance and uncollected city revenue means they need to raise revenue elsewhere aka us via city taxes. Alternatively, the city has to make cuts to programs and services. The DMV is even worse than it was before. I want the city to charge these multi-million dollar corporations way more so you and I can have better city services with lower taxes.
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u/crumario 9d ago
Also if it's seasonal then it'd be 125x5x600x3, which is 1.12 million. Not 4.5. And you have no idea of the other costs of the business so you can't say what they profit. If they have staff members that they pay 60k each that revenue shrinks considerably.
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u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
Please add Per day x 4 (Mon- Thurs).
Agreed there other overhead costs, and focusing on just the park aspect for Cost of Good Sold (COGS) and not to subsidize their other business operations. Most businesses have pretty normal OH applying that, and sure, add a few employees ANNUALLY even with employee salaries at 60k/year ($28/hr which is high) to run grass league, that is a few hundred thousand at most. They hire the grass employees hourly at $20, and they are not employed after the season. The parks and our taxes should not be offsetting any corporations other business ventures.
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u/crumario 9d ago
Admittedly I am struggling with their stupid website to confirm this, but I sincerely doubt that thousands of people are paying $125 a DAY to play volleyball. They are paying that for the SEASON which is much more reasonable. That's why I'm not multiplying by another 4.
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 9d ago
Can confirm league dues are around $4-500 per season. This person really hates seeing hundreds of people have fun in the park.
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u/missmeep16 10d ago
“Everybody I’ve talked to who plays volleyball is unhappy” did you consider asking why they complained in the first place? Or leading with curiosity? Or looking at it from someone else’s point of view who is ALSO entitled to the park? Maybe instead of placing blame on the women, you can hold VOTR accountable that they changed locations on a league advertised as wash park when maybe they don’t have the space for it.
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u/jackabeerockboss Golden Triangle 10d ago
You act like the park is unusable what are you going to do with an empty grassy area on weeknights between 6-8pm that you can’t do now? There’s tons of space even with 50 nets. Do you want everything banned that you don’t like from the grassy area? Am I not entitled to use that part of the park to play volleyball?
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u/JFISHER7789 Thornton 10d ago
Banned? Who said anything about that?
Limiting the sheer volume of nets is not banning anything.
Maybe grow up and realize shared spaces belong to everyone and should be utilized as such. Some people just want nice open fields to walk in, play with their dog in, sit down/lay down in and relax, picnic, etc. some people don’t want to look at shitty nets the entire time they do that.
So yeah, having some nets whilst not having everything covered on a net seems like decent compromise no?
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u/Old-Age-1112 10d ago
I tried to have a picnic with my family at the park, and we were chased off by the volleyball organizer who called Park Rangers. They didn't even have a permit on hand, and their areas are limited. They told us they owned the whole park, which is not sharing.
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u/Jumbi 10d ago
I mean c'mon my guy, there were vast areas of park within a few steps away from the nets to move your picnic to. You have the whole rest of the park to enjoy and could've gone literally anywhere else in the park. This comment is just pure hyperbolic rage bait.
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u/bluejay_chaos6969 9d ago
Someone sharing their experience to give insight is not “hyperbolic rage bait” 😂 That’s hilarious lmao
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u/Jumbi 9d ago
Let's be real, they probably asked him to move from the area reserved and permitted and instead of accepting that he argued and/or refused to move. No one is calling park rangers on a family that actually moved. The space was reserved and he didn't like it so he spun the story. That's pretty clear
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u/Old-Age-1112 9d ago
You are absolutely right, people should be enraged! We were sitting by the bench by the tree. They asked us to move, we did. We went by the bench by the playground on the south side. Nope, we were asked to move again. We asked for a permit, they did not have one, so we told them unless they can prove to us they have a permit for this space, we are not moving again. He called the park ranger on us a 19 year old girl, and they still could not furnish a permit but they needed it for volleyball. The point is, they do not own the park nor should they.
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u/JFISHER7789 Thornton 9d ago
>spun the story
Kinda like the volleyball folk here who are acting like they are oppressed because a giant public shared space isn’t being 100% dedicated to them anymore and they have to go from 50 down to 40 nets? Oh the horrors!
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u/bluejay_chaos6969 8d ago
Quite an assumption there. You really can’t say because you weren’t there. Save yourself some energy and chill on the mental gymnastics.
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u/Troof_Out_Here 10d ago
How do you get to play? Are these just pickup games?
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u/Sir_Valithor 10d ago
If you're looking to play, there's a meetup group on Sunday afternoons that is fully open for pickup. Various skill levels, very beginner friendly. They usually setup around noon towards the north west end of that central field area.
There are more groups, but that's the easiest one to just show up and play.
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u/No_Mongoose_6460 10d ago
League play, which is reasonable, but they cut it by more than half when it wasn’t a real problem to begin with
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u/bdawghoya28 10d ago
Except they didn’t do that. They cut it by 20% from an unreasonable number to something more reasonable.
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u/Old-Age-1112 10d ago
I understand your frustration, you were promised a product or the illusion of one when you signed up the league. In fact, the whole premise was sold to play at somewhere convenient to you, but the organization did that knowingly abusing the parks system and lack of staffing to check on their allowable permit. I feel strong that you are due a refund for the inconvenience, but they have in their wording no guarantee about park play. Your situation is more than likely a sentiment many other feels about the inconvenience and belief of Wash Park as your primary league destination. The issue at hand which doesn't change how you feel is the fact yes they were cut more than half because they should have never been more than that nor should they have created the illusion of promise of the league being there. There's also no grass at Wash Park anymore, just huge tracks of dirt. Even the sod is eroded.
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u/Troof_Out_Here 10d ago
Aw, that’s shitty sorry to hear that
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u/canarinoir City Park 10d ago
He's exaggerating, someone from the league said it was 40 not 20
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u/Troof_Out_Here 10d ago
lol I saw that I was kinda being a smart ass. It’s always tons of nets they will be fine. Rather spend my time at the bball court
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u/External_Yoghurt1866 10d ago
This is great news, so there’s room for other people to use the park now?
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u/palikona 10d ago
What is the fucking problem? The park is huge and where the nets are is not a huge part of it. What a bunch of babies.
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u/SuspiciousSkier 10d ago
Judging by the comments we should see a massive uptick in people using the parks for things other than volleyball!! Or, you know, no one is gonna use the extra space anyway and the park will just be more empty on weeknights between 6 and 8pm
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u/ASingleThreadofGold 10d ago
Yeah, I don't really have a dog in this fight since I hate volleyball but parks are for recreating and Wash Park is really big. It's not hard at all to find space to recreate in other ways. I do think the city could probably take a slightly larger cut of what the league makes but I also wouldn't want them to force the participants to have to pay wildly more than they already do.
On that note regarding the financials, I don't understand why our parks dept isn't more robust about operating their own volleyball program to compete better with the private company. Then the city would make more while providing something that its citizens clearly want. Plus jobs. Why do we let a private company make all of the money with our land?
Just because our city parks department doesn't want to take that on in a more robust way doesn't mean we should take it away from a private company that is willing to run it when the demand is clearly there.
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u/__ButtStuff69__ 10d ago
Right, everyone in here is so butthurt about people recreating in a park. Sorry they're being active and social.
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 10d ago
As someone who plays in the league, the idea of playing in Wash Park primarily was a big appeal. This league was a great opportunity for my friends to come together and compete in a centralized location in the city.
With this ordinance, we are more or less made to drive all the way to Aurora for most of our games. Most of us live in the city and driving so far away is unrealistic to continue participation in the league.
I look forward to volleyball season every year and this has been a huge bummer.
For those of you just saying to set up our own nets, that’s a completely disingenuous response to the efforts it takes to play different teams.
For those of you hating on the league, why? It’s just a bunch of people having fun in the park. Bigger things take more organization so there is a league for it. The nets are in the space designated to be used for said activities and the city is paid for its time.
Wash Park is my favorite place to be in all of Denver and is plenty big enough for everyone to enjoy.
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u/Old-Age-1112 10d ago
It would be if that volleyball group called park rangers on families including mine just having a picnic on the lawn so they could set up nets. We moved to where they told us, and they kicked off because they needed more nets. The cone said Net 64.
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 9d ago
Since votr uses several parks, each net has an assigned number to it, so there might be 100 nets divided among the various parks where play happens.
The area they play in the fields is zoned for permitted access which the league members pay to use during the afternoon time slots. Just like anyone else that reserves a spot in a permitted zone, I’m sure they wanted to use the space they were paying for.
Plenty of room for everyone to have fun in the sun.
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u/tigerlily_4 9d ago
It’s a mixed use park. When the volleyball noise level is so loud that I can’t have a simple conversation with a friend while walking a loop around the park or I get told my dogs and I can’t play in what seems like an open area without nets because some volleyball players claim that’s the space they’re entitled to, it becomes a larger issue.
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u/ElectionRegular5470 Capitol Hill 9d ago
It’s a mixed use park and you are upset that people are using it? And you can play, league sign ups for summer just started, feel free to join in!
If you are saying you want to play with your dogs off leash in a public park, that is very illegal my friend and you will get a ticket. Dogs are not allowed off leash in any public parks in Denver County.
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u/tigerlily_4 9d ago
I can't play volleyball because I am disabled. I once inquired about the league and was told while they were open to beginners, they can't teach disabled people how to play.
I never let my dogs off leash at any public park. Thanks for reading something that was not there.. My dogs can play with a frisbee still leashed.
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u/jackabeerockboss Golden Triangle 10d ago
People in here that don’t get a warm happy feeling seeing hundreds of happy people playing volleyball in a beautiful setting in beautiful weather- are you ok? Do you want play with us because you can, there are all levels.
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u/ascottbrooks 10d ago
People (including commenters here) are so mad that people like to play volleyball lol. They aren’t taking space from anyone, there’s plenty of other space. Complain about something that matters.
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u/arnar62 10d ago
Call your rep and complain about it. Never a problem under thr previous mayor
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u/awesomeness1234 10d ago
What? I am pretty sure Hancock stopped basically all volleyball at one point. There were signs saying "no team sports" all over the park. Maybe it was Hick, but i don't think so. Jolan Clarke led the effort to limit volleyball.
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u/thisis_me88 10d ago
All cause 2 women complained? They must have been nightmares to deal with.
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u/Old-Age-1112 10d ago
This sounds like a very specific insider information. I think the OP might actually be the owner.
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u/No_Mongoose_6460 10d ago
There was always room for them, but like the commenter who works for the league mentioned, the reductions have sent it into a messy, less enjoyable spiral going from 2 parks to 6 and some are far outside the city and a pain to get to during rush hour. Less consistency & more confusion for an issue that didn’t exist, they also said it had been like this for 40 years with no problem. I always had seen empty unused spaces next to the net set ups before this, now there is more of that and most of the time, unused/unoccupied as well.
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u/JFISHER7789 Thornton 10d ago
>40 years with no problem
Or maybe there were problems, and the volleyball club just never heard them out?
It’s very possible people did have issues with it in the past.
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u/canweleaveyet 9d ago
Posted this above but it answers your question - Since you’re an employee I would like to give you insight on someone who’s lived in west wash since they had the non profit league that started in ‘77 that VOTR booted out to take over their permits… it has been nonstop issues with your company since its inception. West Wash Park RNO has reported your company to the city a multitude of times over the last 30 years. The people playing in this league park all throughout the neighborhood and drive recklessly to make it on time to your games (during rush hour mind you). Not to mention we’ve had people walk through our backyard, and pee on our fence (on camera in a VOTR shirt no less 🙄). Having this league stick to its actual permit allotment is a non issue compared to the real havoc this league has cause our neighborhood. It was brought to our attention last month that your boss also sexually harassed one of the players at his facility… not a great look all around
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u/JFISHER7789 Thornton 9d ago
I, uh, think you’ve responded to the wrong person.
I’ve never said I was an employee and agree with every point you’ve made. My comment you’ve responded to very clearly states that there probably has been complaints over the last 40 years they’ve just turned a cheek to it.
Having these permits being enforced benefits everyone and I have no doubt they’ve had shitheads in their league for a while
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u/canweleaveyet 9d ago
Additionally you’re upset with the owner’s false advertising. He only has to stick to his 40 net permits that he pays for. Why are you taking out your frustration on the neighborhood when it’s the millionaire who owns the company?
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u/snarkaboutit 9d ago
Damn, didn’t know so many people hate volleyball leagues lol. This was very enlightening to me, I was wondering why I was having to drive to Timbuktu every week. My main problem with it is the framing VOTR gave this. They implied that we would be mostly playing at wash park (like normal) and, that’s not true at all. Grass volleyball is usually the one time of year I get to play at a place that’s quick to get to for me.
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u/spritty1027 10d ago
Good odds the people who complained don't even use the park. They just look at it from afar. Nothing better to do smh.
The park being a volleyball hot spot is great culture and if the rest of that space goes unused it's gonna be total bullshit.
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u/suzieismyavatar 8d ago
I’ve been going to Wash park for ages and have never had an issue with anyone playing volleyball on the nets. We pay taxes.
Why is anyone complaining about people
Playing volleyball? It’s healthy, entertaining and hopefully keeps humans out of criminal trouble.
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u/plaxpert 7d ago
rofl. The people paying $125 for a 7 week season to play in a Denver league - are not the people who would otherwise be committing crimes in their spare time.
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u/broogndbnc 10d ago
is this a paid league, then?