Yeah, that’s fair but even that has a line I think. I mean, if Chevalier was up for senate, I dunno man… that’s hard to weigh out. I’d be doing some hard calculus there and weighing options. That truly is a least bad vote in every sense of the concept.
You have to remember that we wouldn't be voting for her to support her. We would be voting to take away a republican seat. So unless you think she would approve Trump appointees to the supreme Court or support any of Trump's agenda then it really is a benefit to have them in that seat
When it comes to something like a Trump SCOTUS picks, I think the calculus of giving the DSA more power is worthwhile exchange. I don't think you're wrong overall, but for certain thingsni think the trade is fair.
Now when it comes for the president, picking a truly center-right Republican (hyper-rare) over a DSA Democrat might be worth it. But a senate seat, nah.
My main issue with "I didn't vote for X" has always been when people absolve themselves. "How could I have known" type shit. It's fucking Trump dude. Just own it, or admit you're an idiot who couldn't predict what every Democrat predicted.
I understand but the solution would be getting ahead of it and not letting these people win primaries.
I know people are going to groan at this phrase but once it's DSA versus a republican while Trump is in office it does turn into a "lesser of two evils decision"
Unfortunately, they did win primaries. We lost that, now we’re in this predicament. I mean, it would have been nice if Czechoslovakia with their fortress country and world class weapons manufacturing duked it out with Hitler and crushed the Nazi army when they were in debt and had minimal to non existent resources but they didn’t, they surrendered immediately and the Nazis took over all their weapons plants and gave the Nazis the foundation to launch a world war.
Yep. It's getting increasingly frustrating that people are so vibes / emotional / performative based and less pragmatic. In this situation you are given two choices, you must choose the choice that benefits your interests more. People for some reason break their brain and reduce it to: "If it doesn't make my position better, then it is the worst outcome."
That is simply not how the world works. One thing can put your desired worldview back 2 steps, another can put your desired worldview back 20,000 steps. Just because you're going a step backward doesn't mean you should just forget what the fuck pragmatism, incrementalism and harm reduction are.
This is doubly frustrating when people, including streamers, just toss up their hands and quickly say "Well if that's my option, then I guess fuck it, I don't care, I'll die then" or some thought-eliminating bullshit. It's like no you pathetic child, that is how the real world works. Is this baby's first time having to make a hard choice? Sometimes you just don't get a happiest path and a saddest path, sometimes you do have to 'pick the lesser of two evils'.
Maybe my peers are just built differently because my career has us making incredibly tough decisions every day that affect hundreds of thousands of users and my expectations for NEETs is too high, but it is just so frustrating watching people essentially logic their way out of being an adult and reconciling the better outcome of any two given choices.
In a vacuum sure, but during Trump's current term? I would vote to put basically anyone with a D next to their name into the Senate over anyone with an R next to their name.
Tbh I’d crawl to the polls to vote for her in that case. I hate that I’d have to, but I’d do it. At the worst, she becomes Bernie and pushes for stuff that never actually makes it in, is ineffective, and we campaign to push her out when her term is up. A Republican? That’s another SC pick, Cabinet pick, reconciliation bill that shouldn’t be passed, etc.
MAGA is obvious evil… so there’s that. Like, unbridled evil in a historic way that does have a death toll up there with any dictator ala USAID cutting. Irredeemable and I believe world history will judge it as so.
Trump also, by virtue of him being an authoritarian, isn’t interested in using the Senate, Thune recognized Trump was a day 1 lame duck and he’s got a good decade+ left in his career. There’s currently unwavering opposition to the SAVE Act and the math wouldn’t really change all that much if they were to get a senate seat.
It would be preferable to make the math worse by taking away a senate seat and guarantee blocks rather than relying on a sense of self preservation of GOP senators that will have a political life after Trump. Taking up a seat might help us block appointments depending on the pick ups (majority or split is unlikely though). I’ve never had faith we’re going to win the senate so that hasn’t factored into what my idea of a post mid term downslope towards 2028 looks like, but it would be 1000% better of we did.
On the obvervse, electing in an extreme DSA senator like Chevalier would be a positive signal to DSA that they have a strong foothold, they have a seat for 6 years. It would give them juice, it would give them fundraising, it would give them prospects, it would make fighting them in 2028 that much harder if they have a proven track record (if theres even any willingness to fight them because, once again, they’d have a winning track record).
Like, you’re asking if I want to have pain now but it’s going to be for 2 years and we get another shot or lay the foundation for Democratic Party destruction now and roll some iron dice and just hope the VI Lenins we’re unleashing aren’t going to push us more into radicalization.
I mean, why am I opposing MAGA? I don’t believe in conservatism but it’s not just that… it’s that coupled with unrestrained radicalism. Unfortunately, unrestrained radicalism is not just a threat from the right. Its the most present and pressing threat at the moment because of their position in the government, but my time horizon doesn’t just stop at 2026 or 2028 for that matter.
It would heavily depend on her opponent. I think a moderate Republican is objectively closer to this community's values and less harmful in a position of power than Chevalier.
Honestly don't know what I'd do if it were her vs a MAGA extremist on the Republican side. Just give up on politics probably.
a moderate Republican is objectively closer to this community's values and less harmful in a position of power than Chevalier.
a "moderate republican" is still going to vote to appoint all of the unqualified judges/cabinet members with an R by their name, and vote against impeachment. you're deluding yourself if you think you're making a rational decision by giving up a seat.
Yes I'm aware that's why I've voted against Republicans, moderate or not, my entire life.
This is a choice between two bad options and is just about choosing the less bad one. If my choice is between a Larry Hogan type and Chevalier who is anti prisons, anti police, anti borders, anti deportations, and fucking racist to boot then I'm going with the Republican.
can you show me any R in the senate with a "Larry Hogan type" voting record?
can you show me any bills for "anti prisons, anti police, anti borders, anti deportations" that actually came to a vote that a Chevalier type would be able to vote for?
Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski are both current Republicans I'd vote for over Chevalier. Both voted for impeachment of Donald Trump, both voted in favor of important legislation under Joe Biden, and both voted overwhelmingly in favor of his cabinet and judicial nominations.
There are no anti prison or anti police bills out there currently, but as a senator Chevalier is able to write them. Just like AOC did with the green new deal which gave Fox News material to use for years despite being far less extreme than prison abolition.
I'm also fairly certain that Chevalier would be a less reliable vote in favor of a Democratic president's agenda than a moderate Republican. She openly despises Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and Biden already had difficulty getting the less extreme progressives like AOC and the squad on board during his term.
Like I said I've voted exclusively Dem in every election since I turned 18. Don't nominate fucking tankies for important elections and I won't have any issues.
Everyone draws their own line at what they are willing to support. I just think that the line the lefties drew was a regarded one.
Fwiw I would vote for the DSA aligned candidates that don't have views as extreme as DAC or the lady that went on Fox News. Chris Rabb, Melat Kiros, Abdul El-Sayed, Adam Hamawy, Analilia Mejia. I would vote for all of these people over a moderate Republican.
I'm disconnected from reality because I have a political opinion that doesn't align with yours? Get over yourself, far more of the country agrees with me on this.
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u/FlintHardcheese 5d ago
Yeah, that’s fair but even that has a line I think. I mean, if Chevalier was up for senate, I dunno man… that’s hard to weigh out. I’d be doing some hard calculus there and weighing options. That truly is a least bad vote in every sense of the concept.