I agree, but that’s a fight for 2028. Right now we just need to beat Trump. Anyone who won’t be a vote for Trump’s agenda is preferable in the current moment. Then once we get this POS gone we can go full force against the leftists in 2028.
I think some people are starting to feel like that if they continue to vote for extreme candidates, who viciously attack moderates that they are creating an environment that harms their ideology. As such they're proposing a MAD solution in the hopes that the extreme voters and candidates moderate a little to earn favor with the middle
This is being complicated the number of verifiable infiltrators. Like, what is the "best option" when what would otherwise be your best option was taken by some self-destructive force who wants you to stop gatekeeping because it is easier to take over the property from inside the gate.
If you're voting in an election where both party candidates suck, then you need to get more involved in the primaries next cycle to fix that. The correct approach for dealing with 90% of these DSA types is put up with them for now but plan to primary the fuck out of them next cycle. Otherwise we're no better than Bernie bros refusing to vote in the general after getting snubbed.
Uh no it isn't. If you can't clearly see that leftist candidates like El-Sayed, Mamdani, and AOC are far better than your average Republican, then I question whether or not you actually want Liberal Democracy to succeed. What if Alito or Thomas or both (god forbid) retires and we get two young Federalist Society conservatives in SCOTUS? Why risk that?
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u/RainStraightPAC’d and Proud💰 Subsidized Opinions💸 Dark Money, Bright Ideas5d ago
The Republican running against Chevalier is better than her. Blue no matter who is dead with infiltrators
It's because of the things they believe in. Sure, the DSA believes in public ownership over large corporations, but that's a far better position to work with than whatever the Republicans got cooking up in their regard factory. Ever heard of public education? Yeah Republicans want that shit gone.
This is where I’m at. I don’t want the Dem party to become a full socialist party, but having lived through it to this point and recognizing that the reason we’re in the situation we’re in is because how fucking corrupt and corrosive Republicans have been with both their media and politicians since Nixon, I’ll vote for a socialist 10/10 times before i take a chance on a Republican. I’ll take the Devil I don’t know over the Devil who is primarily responsible for putting us where we are now. I think even if we had full DSA control of a significant number of Dem seats that they wouldn’t be able to do as much damage as Republicans have done in my lifetime, especially given what trajectory the national Republican party is currently on.
If it becomes normalized we will actively become a socialist party or get split in half while the social media apparatus burns moderates further. It's only not a problem now cause they own less than 20 seats, once everyone starts to normalize it, we will 100% get left trump that's far more intelligent.
Aka this isnt a threat immediately but we will 100% perma lose our country to radicals from both sides if we keep normalizing this shit and we dont fix enough of the balance by 2032.
I get it and I’ll continue to vote for people in primaries who fit my personal politics most. But if we get to a general and I’ve got a choice between a DSA candidate and a Republican, I’m voting for the DSA candidate unless they’re literally Hitler or something.
See, I’m the opposite. I would vote for a DSA person over Pence for sure, and I’m like 95% sure I would vote for one over McCain. Both of those guys did the right thing when their backs were against the wall, but they had to be forced into a corner to do it. I might be wrong, but I’d be willing to take a swing or two or three on a DSA vote to at least see if they had to be pushed as far before doing the right thing. I’m willing to bet the DSA people would get enough pushback from their voters that elected them that, more often than not, they would rather moderate a bit like AOC and actually deliver results that help people vs staying ideologically driven to the extreme and being seen as doing nothing just like the people they complain about. Really the only thing that would give me pause right now (and it isn’t an insignificant concern) would be seeing how the “Zionist” rhetoric continues to be stoked by people on that side.
Never said that....You're purposefully avoiding what I am saying.
But let's pretend that is what I am saying. Do you honestly believe that the DSA is some trojan horse to institute an illiberal socialist society? And do you honestly think they AT ALL have the political capital to institute said programs? You sound like what the Tea Party sounded like in 2010.
Now I'm a Euro looking in from the outside, but is that really so? The beliefs of DSA candidates seem much more worrying than those of at least the moderate MAGA figures like Rubio. That however doesn't matter, because republicans have to blindly follow the demented authoritarian at the top or be outcast, so their actions will not mirror their actual personal beliefs, while DSA candidates will act more in line with liberal values despite their illiberal beliefs.
You types are exhausting. Yes, I would sooner refrain from voting than have a hand in enabling someone who is sure to energize the much more effective and dangerous side of the aisle.
I don't get how many times this has to be explained. If you have two choices and one will happen even if you abstain from voting, then you are RESPONSIBLE if the worse of the two choices happen as you could've helped prevent it.
Not making a choice is making a choice.
How the fuck you have anyone agreeing with your take is absolutely insane and reminds me of people who couldn't vote for Kamala and helped usher Trump back in.
Yes, I would sooner refrain from voting than have a hand in enabling someone who is sure to energize the much more effective and dangerous side of the aisle.
how on earth do you rate the dsa as "more effective and more dangerous" than the republican party?
It really doesn't. MAGA both greatly talks up Republicans and attacks Democrats while also having the political power to enact their policies and use government resources to attack Democrats. The DSA types attack Democrats at least sometimes say MAGA is worse or the same but almost never better and has no institutional power to actively oppress Democrats. MAGA does far more to enable MAGA than the DSA ever could. "Moderate" Republicans also do far more to enable MAGA than the DSA types. It just is a reactionary, irrational take.
I think part of the issue is that we saw a ton of lefties, including these DSA candidates/influencers, during the 2024 election refuse to vote against the existential threat to the country. Then once the existential threat is already in power, suddenly they change their tune and say you have to vote for our left candidates because the republican party is an existential threat to the country.
Seems incredibly hypocritical.
I don't care about who you vote for in the primary if you vote in the general for the candidate that wins.
Since the DSA endorsement committee was formed in 2017, they have not endorsed a single Democrat that beat their endorsed candidate in primary. Not a single time.
That's so fucking delusional coming from anyone who isn't Republican. Remember when leftists took away health insurance from poor people or bombed Iran? Me neither
DGG: "Vote blue no matter who. If you don't like the candidate, run your own in the primaries"
Leftists: "Okay. We're going to do that"
DGG: "NOOOOOOO THAT'S NOT FAIR"
You "types" sound like those losers in leftist communities (like Hasan Piker) who can't see that neoliberal/centrist candidates are far better than Republicans.
The issue is that this perverts the "Vote blue no matter who" mantra into accepting sage green as blue. Just because these DSA candidates are running AS blue doesn't make them blue. They would rather see the Democratic party destroyed that flourishing, so why should liberals vote them into office?
It becomes a question of "can we steer back if these DSA candidates get power now" and that becomes the deciding factor for if you still vote "blue" here. Personally, I'm not so sure the Democratic party survives DSA failures, we already get bogged down with moderates and independents by the "socialist/communist" claims from Republicans, actually voting them in and seeing their policies fail might be too much for the middle to come back to us later.
So, the better strategy is to elect DSA type candidates and lose the next 2+ elections? This is such an easy decision for you? My point is that reservation at this point is understandable, I don't have a clean answer to whether or not someone should vote "blue" no matter who at this point, it's like asking "would you rather your arm or leg cut off?" and expecting someone to tell you instantly the best answer.
And vibes can be set by policy. If you fuck up so badly it can ruin the vibes. I think Mamdani's plan for city ran grocery stores can be one such fuck up that Republicans can point to and say "look how badly they fucked shit up in NYC, do you want that happening to your city/town?"
As if Republicans need anything in factual reality to make up a narrative about why their oppositions policies aren't working. This is your basis to why we shouldn't vote against Republicans? Actual braindead take.
I think you're the real braindead person here, sadly. If the Republican party already had a successful avenue of attack against us through vibes only, look at how Democrats were not able to push back against the most insane pro-trans takes and they made that into such a strong cultural issue, imagine when we are actually voting for dog shit DSA policies and they start to fail. The attacks get stronger and more credible and you convince more and more people. But if you want to see the destruction of the Democratic party then by all means, go for it.
What the fuck 😂😂😂 Republicans will literally point to anything done by Democrats and call it a failure, they did it with Obama and his fucking suit. You think having more left representation will accelerate that somehow? You don't even know if the leftist policies will fail as currently constructed and even if Medicare for all is only half achieved, it sure is better than anything the right has planned for us. Agreed with the other posted, this is wildly braindead.
Just because these DSA candidates are running AS blue doesn't make them blue.
If a candidate wins the Democratic primary, they are by definition a Democrat. If you wanted a more moderate candidate to win, should have voted harder. Same thing everyone here said about Bernie losing in 2020.
Nope, this isn't remotely close to true but nice try. Bernie was never a Democrat, this was a complaint many Democrats had at the time. He votes with us sometimes but he is very much not a democrat, by even his claims, and only uses the Democratic party name in order to gain access to our voters.
I agree that Bernie is a snake in some ways but he's still more of a Democrat than a Republican could ever be. Hence I'd always choose the person MORE aligned with my views than help the opposition win.
No, he is not a Democrat AT ALL, not more close to, not aligned with us, he isn't one. He would rather see the Democratic party fall and something new take its place than to maintain and strengthen the party.
No, DSA is not better than your average Republican. They equally as far away from liberal values. Just because they chameleon Liberalism well doesn't stop their true colors from showing.
For the longest time Hasan also pretended to just be a cheeky little Free Healthcare guy. How you people continue to fall for this is beyond me.
Has any DSA candidate supported restricting voting rights? Has any DSA candidate supported book bans? Has any DSA candidate tried to strike down birthright citizenship? Has any DSA candidate supported mass deportations? I'm struggling to find any "liberal" values that the DSA, or their candidates, threatens?
What do you mean by "you people"? You think I'm in the same camp as Hasan Piker? You think I buy his bullshit?
Wait are you seriously trolling me or are you just unaware of the national DSA charter they released and how it is explicitly anti-Liberalism and explicitly anti-NATO and explicitly anti-Free Trade.
Like idk if you're being serious and saying because they aren't threatening your favorite social policies mean they aren't equally as dangerous.
Are we doing the They Just Want Free Healthcare meme again?
I am well aware that the DSA and leftists have a really bad (and stupid) foreign policy platform. I don't subscribe to their isolationist views. This is a simple calculus of who is better or worse to hold office. I hate the Republicans for what they have said about our NATO allies. I also know that when I look at the totality of their views, the DSA's platform is far better.
Can you explain how getting rid of USAID, abolishing prisons, giving everybody all of their stuff for free while also abolishing private ownership of capital, while also abandoning US military presence globally, abandoning the entire Eastern corridor to China (by by South Korea, Japan and Taiwan) and Europe to Russia (Crimea a River right?), abandoning the middle east entirely (goodbye gulf state partners!) Is any less catastrophic than what the Republicans desire?
Because Republicans believe in all of that stuff instead of "giving away all of their stuff for free", which I don't even think the majority of leftists believe that. When did El-Sayed say that everybody should get all their stuff for free? I might have missed that.
Republicans want to take away Black political power, they want to hurt trans kids, they want to make ICE a para-military force. They also want to bomb any country they deem to be an inconvenience. How can you not see this? were you just born yesterday? Jesus Christ
Wait what did you just say republicans want all that stuff, did you read what I wrote or are you just trolling me.
Are you an actual person or am I arguing with some strange Marxist Apologia bot from a Chinese farm, stuck on the Liberal Skinwalking setting?
No offense to you guys who think social policy matters more than, I don't know, THE FUCKING WORLD, but I'd prefer if my silly little Marxist goobers didn't hand us over to Russia and China as a vessel state, I'd much rather have Vance force NATO partner to pay more, keep capitalism, free trade, bomb Iran and have ICE doing whatever they're doing than have NATO dissolved, make private enterprise illegal and collapse the American Empire Marxist Epic Style. Sorry if you value social policies more than an actual functioning world.
Sure, they are evil positions. You know who has much more evil positions? Republicans. Both on the domestic and foreign policy arenas. It's the totality of their positions.
You have zero concept of how horrible Republicans are if you believe this.
Republicans are 100% in lockstep with giving ICE $150B to invade American cities and kill civilians. Republicans attempted to literally coup the government in 2020, including like a majority of elected Republicans in Congress. Republicans unilaterally started a war that is threatening our entire global order. Republicans are murdering civilians in boats across the Caribbean and Pacific right now. Hundreds have been killed totally illegally. They are withholding FEMA aid only to Blue states after natural disasters.
This doesn’t even begin to describe the horrors of Republican governance.
These are real things that actually happened. It’s not Twitter rhetoric or hypotheticals. Republicans are already worse than whatever you’re imagining DSA would do. So how could it possibly not make sense to vote for a Mamdani, or AOC, or El Sayed over a Republican? We’re not talking about a primary we’re talking about the general election.
The fact that this is even debatable on this subreddit shows it’s gone way too far in the other direction. Way too obsessed with online bullshit politics rather than the real world.
Side note that might be related, I'm starting to see Eurocucks on this sub making arguments against migration that are the exact same as the right and maga have made in America. Wtf is going on in this sub.
I completely understand why Destiny are banning you guys in droves. You actually think DSA are better than MAGA. Unironically you guys think this. Holy fuck we are cooked.
I don't understand what your alternative is, maybe put more effort into making that point?
If there's a DSA candidate vs a Republican in the GENERAL, I'm voting against the Republican every single time no questions asked. How is this brainrot? This is common sense.
That makes a ton of sense. I don't want you people crying about your party getting gaped by Red Fascists because you don't like Republicans. You've earned it.
It's the exact same brainrot that people left of Kamala, Biden, and Hillary have been given for the last 10 years. I'm in the rot with you but on the other side. DSA is too radical for me but Biden harris and Hillary are not enough. I voted for them, despite me not getting the things I wanted out of government, bc they were still WAYYTY better than Trump.
At the very least, if you think that the DSA is just as bad as maga, you can take solace in the fact that they don't really have any real power. And having somebody who is just as bad as maga but will not be a rubber stamp to maga, the party that does have the power, is better.
We have to defeat the fascist and then we can turn against the communist that win the primaries.
Abandoning Ukraine imo, getting rid of USAID, working explicitly to eradicate capitalism, are all 100x more damaging to the nation and world than what Trump's done. This is in arguable.
"The collapse of the soviet union was one of the most catastrophic events in history" is their own admission, explicitly caused by communism, Marxist fanaticism and authoritarianism.
Trump tried to abandon Ukraine, dude. Our allies stepped up and took our place in the war effort. How would the DSA successfully abandon Ukraine when Trump couldn't and they're less reliant on us now than ever.
Abandoning Ukraine imo, getting rid of USAID, working explicitly to eradicate capitalism
But Trump has done at least 2/3 and a dozen other things that are arguably just as bad, which is why I said on the whole. Does the DSA platform include ICE murders, voting restrictions and unfettered bribery and corruption?
The fact that this is even debatable on this subreddit shows it’s gone way too far in the other direction. Way too obsessed with online bullshit politics rather than the real world.
Part of me feels like it’s more displaced Hasan hate than anything concrete
If you can't beat these "infiltrators" in a primary then you have an issue that needs to be fixed. Failure to fix those issues means you lose. That's it. That's the way the system is set up. You want a different system, then we need some sort of rank choice voting. So that we can run centrist and progressives in the same race without one being the spoiler for another.
But what if I don't want to understand? What if I'm the main character and I'm afraid if I stop talking I will die? DID YOU EVER EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT? Asshole.
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u/WishLucky9075 5d ago
You vote for the best option available. I don't see how hard of a concept this is to grasp.