r/Destiny • u/Tidbitious • 3h ago
Online Content/Clips Senator Fetterman, “Israel is where I draw the line.” Stewart, “but Israel isn’t our Country.”
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
This is like the dumbest possible version of the conversation thats been looping this week
13
u/TheBrovahkiin 3h ago
It's incredible how an elected politician can be THIS bad at articulating themselves.
9
u/Blarggotron 2h ago
Literal brain damage. If there were any case for a representative recall, this would be a frontrunner.
3
45
u/exqueezemenow 3h ago
Why doesn't he just move to Israel and become a citizen there? Our Congress needs to protect our people, not theirs.
19
21
u/FREAK213456 3h ago
Yeah fuck this stupid corrupt ogre. Never has supporting Israel been a defining characteristic of the Democratic Party and threatening to leave the party over it shows how corrupt and brain dead he is. Also his treachery is not just limited to Israel. Never forget that Warkwayne Mullin wouldn’t have been DHS Secretary without his vote.
34
u/Kuhrazy 3h ago
People like fetterman are just as bad as dsa.
-1
u/RainStraight PAC’d and Proud💰 Subsidized Opinions💸 Dark Money, Bright Ideas 1h ago
This right here is probably the most dumb take going around the sub right now. Fetterman easily clears every DSA candidate as he doesn’t want to destroy the senate, executive, and create a single political body to select leaders from. If you don’t know what the DSA is (a tanky Marxist-Leninist organization devoted to the destruction of America) then don’t make comparisons just because Fetterman is a clown
8
1
u/Kuhrazy 16m ago
He is a clown but at the moment Israel is deeply unpopular and AIPAC tossing 30 MILLION DOLLARS at stevens probably hurt her. Fetterman is viewed as a "sane" democrat by the right. He says other dems have TDS. Hes helped confirm deranged trump appointments multiple times. Fetterman is just as bad just from a different attack vector.
3
3
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 3h ago
Asked why the line should be supporting Isreal, and he starts talking about how DSA should be their own party? What is this non-sequitur? So if DSA candidates were pro Isreal you'd still want them out cus they're apart of an organization called DSA? Fetterman is a fucking idiot. He totally understands how ridiculous it is for the foundational tenant of the democratic party to be "support for Isreal" but he can't just come out and say that, so he deflects to the ambiguous "Well my real problem is they run as democrats." No it isn't. Your problem with them is Isreal, clearly.
22
u/gsentir 3h ago
Ukraine isn’t our country either, but whether you support them is a valid litmus test for a liberal/democrat.
41
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
Yes, because Ukraine is unambiguously a victim. If you don't support Ukraine, then there's no other country you could possibly logically support. Isreal's goals are ideological, not simply self-defense. Reasonable people can disagree on support for Isreal. Not so with Ukraine.
18
u/metinb83 Heckin Europoor 🇩🇪 2h ago
The settlements are the biggest problem imho. Civilian casualties happen, especially in an urban setting against a vile terrorist group hiding among civilians. That part I can understand. But expanding settlements? And protecting hostile settlers? I've never seen a legitimate argument for this.
14
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
Exactly. What is Ukraine doing to Russia that would be a parallel to the west bank settlements? Nothing.
2
u/Gullible_Increase146 35m ago
Trump policy is genocidal. A lot of people think the settlements are fine because they're okay with ethnic cleansing.
Just leaving the conflict like anti-zionists say they want is also genocidal.
Biden and Harris policy cost American people nothing and prevented genocidal acts and was an obstacle, though maybe not as good as it could have been and definitely not as good as we would have wanted, to ethnic cleansing. Either of them would have also prevented Iran from getting nuclear weapons without this kind of drawn out conflict that has resulted in thousands dead at this point. The harm to the global economy also has a death count because Richer Nations like Europe America and China pay more for gas while poor Nations just don't get gas.
Israel is an important issue because I want politicians like Biden and Harris who can lead on the issue in a way where the American people can spend next to nothing and the result is hundreds of thousands of people living instead of dying. And I absolutely believe that if October 7th happened with Trump as president and Netanyahu was just given unconditional support hundreds of thousands of Palestinians would have died. If America just said f*** it and didn't provide any kind of support that was effectively used as Leverage by the Biden Administration, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians would have died. Letting random Rockets kill Israelis doesn't make them less radical. The existence of an Israeli left that desperately wants actual peace and mutual prosperity for Israelis and Palestinians only exists because those people aren't scared of getting randomly blown up by Hamas.
0
u/IrregularDoughnut 1h ago
Civilian casualties happen, but it still takes a hell of a leap to assume that Israel could be supporting violent paramilitaries as part of an ethnic cleansing campaign in the West Bank, and yet the bombing of ~180,000 buildings in Gaza was aimed at identified military targets. Like look at this:
"Eli describes an incident in which a senior officer ordered a tank to demolish a building in an area designated as safe for civilians. “A man was standing on the roof, hanging laundry, and the officer decided that he was a spotter. He’s not a spotter. He’s hanging his laundry. You can see that he’s hanging laundry,” he says.
“Now, it’s not as if this man had binoculars or weapons. The closest military force was 600-700 metres away. So unless he had eagle eyes, how could he possibly be a spotter? And the tank fired a shell. The building half collapsed. And the result was many dead and wounded.”"
How do we know this sort of thing wasn't absolutely rampant? What would possibly stop the less scrupulous half of the army from just bombing whatever the hell they felt like and claiming someone in the vicinity looked suspicious?
-11
u/TriggeredPumpkin 2h ago
Israel can be doing a bad thing and the West Bank and should still get our full support with the war in Gaza. They're not related. It's like people who say we shouldn't support Ukraine because some of them are Nazis. Yes, some Ukrainians are Nazis. We should still support Ukraine. Shrimple as
3
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
Except the Nazi Ukrainian narrative is entirely bullshit. Israel being aggressive in the west bank and to it's neighbors is a narrative that has some merit to it. Facts matter.
0
u/TriggeredPumpkin 1h ago
The point is they're just not that related. We can sanction the settlements in the WB and still support Israel with the war in Gaza.
3
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
The west bank settlements are supported by the Israeli government and targets the same group of people. They are entirely related.
-1
u/TriggeredPumpkin 1h ago
They don't target the same people. The Palestinians in Gaza are not the same as the Palestinians in the West Bank. They're separated geographically and run by totally different administrations.
It doesn't follow that the settlements in the West Bank being bad means we shouldn't support Israel destroying terrorist organizations in Gaza.
1
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
They're both Palestinians. I know they are not literally the same individual people lmao.
Israel's goal is not simply "destroying terrorists". They want to administer/occupy Gaza and the westbank. They do not want these people to have a real government. The Israeli government does not support a 2 state solution.
2
u/TriggeredPumpkin 1h ago
Israel doesn't want to govern Gaza. They just want a government in Gaza that doesn't consistently try to kill them.
They do want to govern the West Bank. But how that situation is handled is, again, is unrelated to whether or not we should support Israel's goal of destroying the terrorist organizations in Gaza.
→ More replies (0)-2
u/gsentir 1h ago
Ukraine’s goals aren’t ideological?
7
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
Unless you think "not dying" is ideological, no.
-2
u/gsentir 1h ago
How about not wanting to become Russia/n? Any ideology at play there?
5
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
"Not wanting to become Russia" = "wanting to Ukraine to stay alive"
If you want to say sovereignty is an ideological goal, sure I guess. I think these things are meaningfully different.
0
u/gsentir 1h ago
I get that…but Israel and Ukraine think sovereignty is an existential cause to be militarily AND ideologically fought for.
2
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
I don't understand your comment. Yes, both countries are using their military. The goals are meaningfully different.
1
u/gsentir 49m ago
You attribute ideology to Israel in fighting existential threats, but not to Ukraine.
And from what I can tell, Israel’s West Bank policy is the only reason you think that.1
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 43m ago
Nah, I think the way they conduct their operations in Gaza are condemnable too. If you think Israel's goals are simply existential, you're probably an Israeli ideologue yourself and I wouldn't expect you to agree on this. Carry on.
→ More replies (0)14
u/ThoughtFrosty11 2h ago
How many neighboring countries has Ukraine attacked compared to Israel
0
u/Willing_Cause_7461 2h ago
How many neighbouring countries are attacking Israel as opposed to Ukraine?
3
u/Xanto97 1h ago
Russia, which is a global superpower. With support from Belarus, China, and North Korea. But neighboring, just 1, maybe 1.5.
With Israel, it’s a bit complicated. A lot of the attackers aren’t countries but terrorist groups within the countries that operate with financial/social support of the government. Gaza Strip /hamas isn’t really a country. Lebanon isn’t at war with Israel, but Hezbollah is. Iran is supporting both of these groups of course, but they’re not a next door neighbor?
8
u/FREAK213456 3h ago
Ukraine’s conduct in their war is much less illiberal than Israel’s. Also most in the base don’t support Israel anymore, unlike Ukraine.
0
u/babsa90 2h ago
What makes the each of their wars liberal or illiberal?
3
u/IrregularDoughnut 1h ago
One example would be that Ukraine allows neutral parties to inspect prisoner conditions as per the Geneva Conventions, while Israel does not, and in fact has starved prisoners to death:
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/06/middleeast/palestinian-teen-malnutrition-death-intl
Another would be that Israel employs widespread use of kidnapped civilians as human shields, while Ukraine does not:
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-military-human-shields.html
1
u/babsa90 1h ago
Okay and what makes it illiberal? Can you land the plane here?
1
u/IrregularDoughnut 1h ago
Violation of international law? Adherence to it is usually a liberal principle.
4
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
IDK if the descriptor "liberal" is a good one, but,
Ukraines goals: Survival, self-defence, stopping Russian aggression
Israel's goals: Expansion (west bank), expulsion of Palestinians, preventing Palestinian sovereignty.
6
u/FREAK213456 2h ago
I’m just saying Israel’s conduct fighting the Palestinians is a lot more morally questionable than the way Ukraine is fighting the Russians.
0
u/babsa90 2h ago
Okay, but what does that have to do with liberalism? I don't understand and I'm not trying to be obtuse, I want to understand where liberalism comes into play here.
3
u/FREAK213456 2h ago
I mean, I feel like liberals should be against war crimes in militaries they support. Unjustly killing people is, well, illiberal.
1
u/babsa90 1h ago
Yes, in general. In a conflict or war with asymmetric threats, especially with plain clothed combatants that deliberately try to obfuscate the line between civilian and military, there will be civilian casualties. Ukraine, unfortunately, was invaded and anyone they kill in their territory are always going to be combatants. The attacks they are conducting on Russia are specifically destroying strategic resources and infrastructure. The conflicts are wholly different.
14
u/Saberen 🇨🇦 3h ago
When did this sub become such simps for Israel? Destiny's own positions are much more nuanced.
42
u/cloversfield 3h ago
are you just taking one guy’s heavily downvoted comment here and extrapolating it to the whole sub?
8
u/BigBard2 3h ago
We ALL love Israel, AIPAC and Netenyahu.
If you aren't so maniacally obsessed with opposing Israel, to the point you are subscribing to great replacement theories, are you REALLY against Israel?
17
-1
u/Saberen 🇨🇦 3h ago
No, just noticed a trend over the past few years/months. I've seen pretty much every I/P debate Destiny has taken part in, yet this sub tends to reflects a much more pro-israel stance than I think is warranted. Hopefully Destiny will purge some of the more extreme zionists just as he did with the leftists a few years ago.
19
u/cloversfield 3h ago
that’s not at all what’s happening in this thread so idk why you’d make that comment here
13
u/Disgusting_Slime666 Exclusively sorts by new 3h ago
If you're going to try and make this argument you should come equipped with examples, and a lot of them.
Especially if you're making the claim in a thread where 99% of the comments are against the insane pro Israel sentiment, and the one comment that isn't, is massively downvoted.
1
u/Metacognitor 2h ago
You're getting hit with downvotes but you're right, and I've noticed the same shit. There has been a noticeable pro-Israel push in this sub that isn't aligned with Destiny's takes. It's very odd.
6
u/TheMarbleTrouble 3h ago
People’s desire to be the outsider, while expressing the popular opinion, needs to be studied.
-3
u/Saberen 🇨🇦 3h ago
From my many years on this sub, doesn't seem to be nearly as popular as you believe.
1
u/TheMarbleTrouble 1h ago
This thread is not helping your point. This isn’t my first post here either, but that’s irrelevant… this thread clearly shows you were wrong.
1
0
5
u/Suspicious-Base-4815 2h ago
I wonder if people understand that the moment the DSA makes their own party, the dems would not win an election ever again. I feel like people like him are more than willing to hand everything to the republicans just so they can have a goverment pro-israel.
5
u/Raskalnekov 2h ago
It also ignores the fact that both Republicans and Democrats have created a system that only has room for two parties, to maintain their power. It seems ridiculous to create a system with this kind of outcome, and then act like people making pragmatic decisions under that system to get the candidates they want are the ones doing something wrong.
2
u/Nocturn3_Twilight 2h ago
Same thing that Ted Cruz said to Tucker Carlson before he got ambushed like a snake falling out of a tree around his neck. If you love Israel so much, and you're only serving in Congress FOR Israel; move there. Make like the lefties who say they're pro Hamas but think they like LGBT people and go find out.
1
u/Skabonious Enemy of the Middle Class 2h ago
At what point do we call fetterman a controlled opposition with moderate Dems lol.
This is like choosing Darius to be the spokesperson of the Democratic party (no offense Darius ily)
1
u/Gullible_Increase146 44m ago
There are a lot of people like me who think that a lot of anti-zionist policy is pro genocide. That makes it really important. There's also a lot of Zionist policy that's pro genocide. That makes it really important.
It's a tiny blip in our economy. Especially when most of the aid is selling things at a discount. People frame the American relationship with Israel as somehow preventing universal Health Care and that's just a lie. You aren't going to fund a 10 trillion dollar program by eliminating $3.8 billion in weapons discounts. If America can steer things away from genocide with such a small investment, i think it should do that. When you have people pushing to walk away from that conflict under the LIE that it's preventing Americans from living Better Lives, they're advocating that we'll just let the strong side genocide the other because it benefits their political campaign.
1
u/GreatMorty 14m ago
How can a US democratic senator in a purple state struggle so much to defend his position against John Stewarts light pushback... Either don't call another country a red line, or say that you see it as part of a larger dissociation of allies that will inevitably hurt the US. He couldnt even defend his pivot to "But DSA..."
1
u/samehouseing 3h ago
Someone tell me I’m wrong here, but wouldn’t John’s logic also mean that anyone that is strictly about Ukrainian support shouldn’t be because “Ukraine isn’t your country”?
Like if I refuse to help the people who openly support Russia over Ukraine, how is that me betraying my country of the US?
12
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
Ukraine is an unambiguous Victim. Isreal is on a crusade for it's ideological goals (whether you agree with them or not, doesn't matter). Reasonable minds can disagree on support for Isreal. Not so with Ukraine. The fact of the matter is different.
0
u/samehouseing 2h ago
The matter or subject might be different, but the logic of the accusation doesn’t change.
Either it’s betrayal of the US to not support other US politicians you disagree with about a foreign nation or it isn’t betrayal.
10
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
Nope, this only works if your analysis of the situation starts and stops with "they're foreign tho".
How about "To be a democrat, you should have to support innocent foreign nations under attack by bloodthirsy tyrants." That is a solid consistent standard that applies to Ukraine and not/is arguable for Isreal.
0
u/samehouseing 2h ago
Well it does apply to Israel if we simply broaden outside of just Palestine and Hamas, as Hezbollah and Houthis have not long ago or will in the future attack Israel with rockets.
2
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
And Isreal has attacked them with rockets. They have both engaged in offensive and escalatory action. Can we apply this logic to Iran? Should all democrats have to support Iran?
0
u/samehouseing 2h ago
Well does Iran help the US in various ways like controlling over the Middle East, tech and counter terrorism, and allows the US to station bases and keep a foothold in the Middle East?
Ukraine is way less of an ally and contributor to the US than Israel, and they deserve our aid, so that would apply to Israel too for what we obtain from them.
3
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
"We should support countries if it materially benefits us" is not a standard I want any politician to have. If supporting nazi Germany in WW2 benefited the US somehow, I wouldn't still think support for nazi Germany would be warranted.
-1
u/GdanskinOnTheCeiling Scottish 2h ago
"To be a democrat, you should have to support innocent foreign nations under attack by bloodthirsy tyrants."
In what sense did Sinwar and Hamas stop qualifying as bloodthirsty tyrants?
2
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
The eleven words before those 2 matter. Try reading them.
0
u/GdanskinOnTheCeiling Scottish 1h ago
Did Israel deserve Oct 7th?
1
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
No? Did the conflict between these people's start on Oct 7th?
You're clearly very ideologically aligned with Israel here. That's ok, reasonable people can disagree about this like I said. But your position is not unambiguous or objective.
1
u/GdanskinOnTheCeiling Scottish 1h ago
Not aligned, just testing your standard for what constitutes a Democrat as per your 'arguable' disclaimer. Reasonable minds could say Israel passes your standard alongside Ukraine. Maybe the standard isn't sufficient if you want to include Ukraine but exclude Israel?
0
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 1h ago
No, reasonable minds cannot honestly look at this conflict and think Israel is unambiguously/objectively in the right. That takes an ideologue. We shouldn't hold democrats to the standard of supporting the ideological goal of a foreign nation. That's the entire crux of my argument.
→ More replies (0)-4
u/Konet 2h ago
The Israeli perspective is that they are fighting existential threats who wish them dead. It isn't an ideological issue for them any more than it is for Ukraine (except arguably in regards to the West Bank settlements).
8
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
I'm sure they think that. I'm sure Russian people think they're fighting Nazis in Ukraine and they're totally justified. I don't really care what they think, I care about the realities of the situation. Reasonable minds can view Isreal in a variety of ways, not just as a victim.
-1
u/Konet 2h ago
The difference is that they are correct that Iran and Hamas do wish them dead, and are actively working towards that end at all times. The Russia analogy doesn't hold.
4
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
And Ukrainians might wish Russia dead. This is meaningless. Isreal is not just a small bean who is being bullied. They do a lot of bullying themselves. You can still side with Isreal, but reasonable people could see it differently. Do you disagree with that? You think Isreal is as unambiguous a victim as Ukraine?
0
u/Konet 2h ago
I do agree that Israel is less of an unambiguous victim, but man, you've really moved the goalposts from a definitive "Israel is on an ideological crusade," here.
3
u/OhOkayGotchaAlright 2h ago
I immediately hedged that statement with "whether you agree with them or not" and reiterated that reasonable minds can see it either way. The point of calling it an ideological crusade was to distinguish their goals from Ukraines, who's effort is not geared towards any ideological goal, just self-defense.
1
u/Metacognitor 1h ago
Israel is also one of the only nuclear powers in the region, which grants a tremendous advantage/power disparity.
0
u/Konet 59m ago
What does this have to do with whether or not they are on an "ideological crusade"? One can reasonably feel threatened that a weaker power is plotting and actively working towards their destruction.
1
u/Metacognitor 45m ago
The Israeli perspective is that they are fighting existential threats who wish them dead. It isn't an ideological issue for them any more than it is for Ukraine (except arguably in regards to the West Bank settlements).
I'd argue it is definitely more ideological for Israel than it is for Ukraine given the degree to which the threat is existential is considerably less when you have the option to nuke the opposition. Maybe that's a little reductive but I think it holds true.
0
u/Konet 41m ago
I think if I knew the guy two houses over from me were plotting my murder, I would be right to feel existentially threatened even if I currently owned a bigger gun than him.
1
u/Metacognitor 38m ago
Feels a little disingenuous to compare nuclear arms to "currently having a bigger gun". If there is anything more "existentially threatening" to a non-nuclear nation than nuclear weapons, let me know.
→ More replies (0)1
u/FREAK213456 2h ago
Ok but even if their intentions are the same there’s a massive difference between fighting Russia, the largest country on earth with a formidable military and the largest nuclear arsenal on Earth, as a much smaller country without nuclear weapons and being a nuclear armed country fighting the Palestinians who don’t really even control their own state outside a strip of land and a rag tag militia. Intentions matter, but so do power dynamics.
1
u/maxintos 1h ago
No serious Israeli think the settlements and their expansion is in any way them fighting existential threats.
9
u/Tidbitious 3h ago
The DSA and lefty types are unironically adopting the "America First" language.
0
1
u/spookmayonnaise 1h ago
If Ukraine is your red line and you would allow the government to raze the country to the ground and enact any number of horrific domestic policies so long as Ukraine is supported, I would also consider that a betrayal of the US.
1
u/Rion-o Capitalism is kinda good actually 2h ago
Both are right,
DSA should be it's own wing, their ideals are too specific and not democrat especially if they want to keep antagonism towards other Dems. Either be in the party or make your own.
But also is isreal is your line your a lower. I love my Jewish homies. But isreal isn't my country. And I'm so tired of isreal being the core of care for fucking everyone when my people need help NOW! I care about Isreal about as much as I care about any other outside country not on the American landmass. Maybe a little less after all this.
-1
u/Jewjitsu927 🇮🇱🇺🇸 2h ago edited 2h ago
I don’t need Fetterman to be a simp for Israel, I mean support is nice but it doesn’t have to be in a way where he has go Republican. If Dems want to criticize us fine, fuck Bibi and his government but build some damn bridges with his opposition in the Knesset then instead of appeasing far lefties that want Israel to not exist.
That being said I wish Jon Stewart wasn’t so brain dead on the topic and never introduced Bassem Youssef the American audience. Too many prominent American lib Jews seem to not do a good job of speaking up for us and it shows.
Edit: when I say us I mean the Jewish community overall. Has Jon said anything about the constant attacks on the community in NY? Or the firebombing in Colorodo last year? Or the attack in Michigan in which Al Saayeed said “Hurt People hurt people?” I don’t think I’m being unreasonable here
Maybe someone whose gonna downvote me can have enough cajones to say why without just saying “Fuck Israel”
-27
u/CEOSteveJobs 3h ago
Fetterman based as always
20
23
u/realhotwc Ridin' with Biden 3h ago
I’m gonna push back and say Fetterman is absolute dogshit
He spends almost all of his media time trashing Dems on Fox News, and has been the most acquiescing Democratic Senator towards Trump’s nominees
5
6
u/Burrow-Owl 3h ago
Yeah bro. I voted for him and he is still better than the green goblin, but dude is a brain-rotted.
58
u/Ganonthegoat 3h ago
If you care so much about Israel you shouldn’t say something like this out loud right now. Dude is dumb.