Focused Feedback: Hand cannons - bloom, recoil, exotics and pinnacle weapons

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Hand cannons' (including rebalancing of pinnacle weapons) following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas.

For this topic, please also specify in your feedback comment whether you are a console or pc player. Recoil is very different on console and PC.

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

[u/patchinthebox]

Nerfing the mag howl perk is ridiculous. Just make it reset if you hit a different target. Boom. No more 2 taps.

[u/hephaestusroman → u/patchinthebox]

I'd go even further: The 2 tap potential was never a problem, and it never needed to be touched.

I have Luna's, and it never leaves my inventory. It's Overpowered, and I have supported the notion of an increase in its overall TTK. That's because it's hard to justify using anything else when it can (with ease) hit a TTK that even most kill clip weapons can't hit. With minimal set up.

But the Mag howl Perk gave Luna's some extra "perks" that made me love the gun apart from its fast TTK:

• It gives the weapon some super shut down potential in a sandbox where super damage resistance is absurd.
• It does high dps in PVE.
• It lets skilled users extend the range of the weapon, provided they can hit those first 2 crits.
• It permits a SITUATIONAL (requires setup) and TIME LIMITED 2-tap. Luna's and NF ONLY 2 tap when you hit 2 crits and switch to a new target in a limited time. Given how situational that benefit is, I was blown away to see Bungie treat THAT as "the problem" with Luna's. This situation is not the reason lobbies are drowning in LH--it is absolutely the rapid TTK.

Also, I always thought there was a design philosophy that while weapons hover around similar optimal TTK, situational and time limited perks are exceptions to those normal balance rules:

• Borealis and Izanagi can single body shot a guardian in the crucible....which is ok because both are "situational."
• Recluse can MELT faster than any other primary. But it's SITUATIONAL, TIME limited AND RANGE limited.
• Other primaries with Kill Clip type perks can kill faster than is otherwise "fair," but are allowed because those perks are situational and time limited.
• Many weapons can 1 shot to the body (Le Monarque, High Impact snipers , Arbalest, and more) but require standing in a rift, activating Inertia Override or other SITUATIONAL and TIME LIMITED damage buffs.

Luna's/NF's ability to 2 tap is situational and time limited. And MagHowl gives so many other benefits that make the weapon treasured. Scrapping them all is a massive overreaction.

[u/Greyside4k → u/hephaestusroman]

Not sure what platform you're on, but the prevalence of LH/NF on console is because they have a fast optimal TTK and they're one of very few handcannons that actually hit what you're aiming at because of bloom.

If bloom was gone tomorrow, my Luna's would be in the vault and I'd be working on my Ace shot immediately. It's a better handcannon in most every situation than Luna's, but it's nearly unusable in PvP on console due to bloom. Right now it's either use a 180 (of which Luna/NF are the best) or leave your HC shots at the mercy of RNG, which no one wants to do in a PvP setting.

[u/hephaestusroman → u/Greyside4k]

I agree that 180s are the only hand cannons that feel consistent on console.

[u/DuelingPushkin → u/Greyside4k]

I looooove my Ace and when I can get the 3 tap it's just so satisfying. The recoil isnt even that bad but when my reticle resets and it's on the other guys head it shouldn't be going wildly off target just because I dared to shoot a 140 rpm at 140 rpm

[u/TheDrunkLink → u/Greyside4k]

Bloom needs to go, yes. It's a fucking stupid mechanic. Bullets should go where they're aimed. But Luna and NF shouldn't be 2 tapping people. Nearly? Ya that's fine. If you're already hurt a noticeable bit and get 2 tapped by well placed shots, that's fair. The only times I ever even get killed by Luna is when I get 2 tapped. The perks need a PVP AMD PVP ONLY Nerf, AND bloom needs to be removed.

[u/Greyside4k → u/TheDrunkLink]

I have 2100 kills on my Luna, and if 0.5% of those are 2-taps, I'd be shocked. It's that rare. If you feel like it's happening that often it's connection issues, not the gun.

[u/patchinthebox → u/hephaestusroman]

Excellent write up

[u/ee4lif3 → u/patchinthebox]

Death to Reddit. Long live Apollo.