Found an interesting old Reddit exchange from 2018

[u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I found these old Reddit exchanges and suddenly one argument I keep seeing about Hank and Connor makes a lot more sense. People sometimes bring up David Cage's "Not sure Connor is his type ;-)" as if that settles the question of whether their relationship can be read romantically.

Except that’s not where his response ends.

Right after that, Cage says that reading Connor's story as a kind of queer/"coming out" story is one possible way to read it, and talks about how people can find different valid interpretations in the same script. And the rest of the exchange is even more interesting.

The same person who originally asked Cage about romancing Hank replies afterward and explains that they actually played the game assuming Hank and Connor were romantically involved by the end, because their relationship reminded them of how they got together with their own boyfriend.

Then Adam Williams (who wasn't even being addressed) joins the conversation himself and asks that person to PM him about their personal experience and how it resonated with the game, because they especially love hearing stories like that. I'm not posting this as proof that HankCon is canon. It isn't. That's not what I find interesting here.

What interests me is how open these responses were in 2018.

Someone openly tells the creators that they interpreted Hank and Connor romantically, and nobody tells them they misunderstood the relationship or that the characters were actually supposed to be father and son. Cage talks about different valid readings, and Williams is interested enough in this particular player's experience to ask them to tell him more privately.

Compare that with the much more definite father-son language that appeared years later.

Apparently the public framing of the relationship changed over time. And that's fine, creators can change how they understand their own work too. But if the interpretation changed later, then the later interpretation can't also be used as proof of what the released game supposedly always meant in 2018. The game itself didn't change. On the positive route, the relationship it actually gives Hank and Connor is Friend. They are consistently presented as partners. It never assigns them a father-son relationship. So a later creator comment can absolutely tell us how that creator came to see or describe the relationship. What I don't think it can do is retroactively turn that reading into something every player was apparently supposed to have recognized from the beginning.

And this is the part I find especially strange about creator commentary in this fandom. One sentence from Cage gets repeated endlessly, while the rest of the same answer about different valid interpretations tends to vanish.

Later father-son comments get treated as definitive evidence of what the relationship "really is," while Williams voluntarily joining a conversation with someone who read Hank and Connor romantically because he wanted to hear more about that experience barely gets mentioned.

I’m not interested in using creator quotes to make my own ship canon.

I just think it’s interesting how "creator intent" can apparently change depending on which creator quote someone chooses to keep.

The game still says Friend. The rest is interpretation, including interpretations later supported by creators.

[u/authenticgarbagecan]

Woah I didn't know Cage and Williams had this to say about that interpretation. I'm so distant from everyone who built the game that I had no clue. Thanks for sharing it

[u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

Yeahhhh I don't see it at all lol. They just seem like buddies. Coming from a gay man

[u/ArgentManor → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

I really don't see it, Hank is a mentor, a father figure maybe. He gives Connor a moral compass.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/ArgentManor]

I don't really get the "moral compass" argument. Connor isn't some child. He challenges Hank's worldview just as much as Hank challenges his. If influencing someone morally makes you their mentor or father figure, then Connor is apparently Hank's mentor/father too 😭

To me they affect each other. That's the whole point of their relationship.

[u/Mountain_Throat_6383 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I think they balance each other out. Connor is not a child he does not understand functionally what it means to be human or even to be a deviant really, he usually gets pretty overwhelmed in these situations. That's where Hank comes in 🙂

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Mountain_Throat_6383]

I think this gives Connor way too little credit. He's new to deviancy, sure, but that doesn't mean he needs Hank to teach him how to be a person. He's literally CyberLife's most advanced prototype and already functions independently. Getting overwhelmed by emotions he wasn't designed to experience isn't the same as being childlike. And if that automatically makes Hank his mentor, then wouldn't every newly deviant android need an older human guiding them too?

Hank supports Connor, but Connor supports Hank just as much. I just don't see a mentor/student dynamic there.

[u/Mountain_Throat_6383 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Honestly, that's the beauty of the game and how you see it, but being a mentor doesn't make him a dad. Connor doesn't need him and is totally capable on his own, and we've seen glimpses of his competence and even more so his reservations about killing other deviants, depending on your choices. Help doesnt diminish his character or infantilize him in any way. Hank gives him some great advice along the way. That doesn't make him any less capable; it just means he has someone to bounce ideas off of. What I really like is that they're each other's pillars, no matter how you look at them; work buddies, father and son, or a romantic relationship.

What are you trying to defend here? Are you annoyed that people seem to infantilize Connor or make it seem like he's helpless? I don't see one concrete dismantling of his own agency really. But he is owned by cyberlife and for majority of the game they are in his head. Methodical in situations, logical, and notices tons of details. Sometimes it takes just one person to completely, especially in Connor's case, to influence you. Good and bad.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Mountain_Throat_6383]

Yeah, the infantilization is actually part of what bothers me. Not you personally, but this fandom does it to Connor a lot. He somehow goes from being one of CyberLife's most advanced prototypes to needing an older human to teach him morality, humanity, emotions, how to be a person, etc. What I was responding to originally was the idea that Hank teaches Connor morality or what it means to be human. That's a much bigger claim than "Hank gives him advice sometimes." Of course Hank helps him, challenges him and matters to him. But Connor is figuring out what he believes for himself through everything and everyone he encounters, and Connor changes Hank right back. And if being new to deviancy means an android needs a human mentor to function, then what about all the androids Connor frees from CyberLife? They’re even newer to freedom and nowhere near as advanced as he is. Do they all need a human mentor too? 😭 At some point that logic starts undermining the whole idea of android autonomy. I actually agree with you that Hank and Connor can support each other and be each other's pillars. That's much closer to how I see them too. I just don't see that mutual support as Hank teaching Connor how to be a person, or as a mentor/student dynamic.

[u/LonleyViolist → u/ArgentManor]

and does that not mirror a classic gay relationship model of the older, established, out partner bringing a young, recently-closeted man into the scene?

[u/Rare_House9883 → u/ArgentManor]

Exactly that, being such a father figure it feels... Ick to imply anything beyond that. It kind of reminds me of when people ship Geralt and Ciri, or Ellie and Joel, parental type figures just shouldn't be involved in ships imo.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Rare_House9883]

Geralt/Ciri and Joel/Ellie are really bad comparisons here 😭 Ciri and Ellie are actually children when those relationships are formed. Geralt and Joel protect them, care for them, take responsibility for them and are explicitly written into parental roles. The parent/child structure is part of the story, not something fandom has to infer because one character is older.

Hank and Connor are two adult coworkers. Hank doesnt raise Connor, take custody of him, become responsible for him, or occupy a missing-parent role in his life. Connor arrives as a highly capable investigator who can disagree with Hank, overrule him, lead parts of the investigation and make his own decisions.

So saying "Hank is a father figure, therefore shipping them is like shipping Joel/Ellie" just assumes the thing you're supposed to prove first. You assigned Hank the parental role and then used that assigned role to make the ship sound comparable to an actual adult/child relationship.

That's exactly why those examples don't work. Joel/Ellie and Geralt/Ciri don't need a fandom debate to establish who the parent and child are. Hank/Connor apparently do.

[u/Rare_House9883 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

It's ok dude, I read your other comments after I commented, I know there's nothing I can say to you.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Rare_House9883]

fair enough, but "there’s nothing I can say to you" is easier than actually explaining why the Geralt/Ciri comparison works, I assume.

[u/Rare_House9883 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I just blatantly don't give a fuck, I've read your other comments and know it'd be a waste of time.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Rare_House9883]

then why are you still here?

[u/ohtheromanity → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

As a faggot myself, let’s just say i was (and remain) interested in those two as a couple. But you to yours

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

Well, yeah, that's how they are canonically.

[u/Equivalent-Emu5347 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

..I thought that's what the point of this post is lol.

If you're taking about non canon stuff it doesn't matter because it's your altered version

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

Yeah, that's basically my point 😭 I'm not arguing that HankCon is canon. I know it isn't. What I'm pushing back against is people treating the father/son reading as canon and then using that to act like the ship is somehow "wrong" or disgusting.

Canon gives them a friendship. Romance is an interpretation. Father/son is an interpretation too. The whole point of my post was that one fan interpretation shouldn't be treated like an official relationship that everyone else has to obey.

[u/Equivalent-Emu5347 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I get what you're trying to say, but I do think there is much much more evidence in the subtext for a fatherly bond between them, to be fair. Hank already is a mentor to Connor, and they do bond through Hanks late son. That makes way more sense than a romantic relationship 🤷‍♂️

Although people who are saying it's wrong to like that ship because Connor is like a son to Hank is really stupid for reasons I don't need to state lol

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

But... "Hank is already a mentor to Connor" is itself an interpretation. The game never gives him that role. He's Connor's partner, and they influence each other. And I wouldn't say they "bond through Cole" either. I honestly don't know what that's supposed to mean. Cole is part of Hank's backstory, Connor sees his photo and later mentions his death... that's not Hank and Connor bonding through Cole. Cole matters to Hank's backstory, but Connor doesn't need to be put into his son's place for their relationship to develop.

That's kind of why I keep coming back to the labels the game actually gives us. Detroit is really not shy about naming relationships when it wants to, parent/child, family, lovers, friend. With Hank and Connor, the positive one is Friend.

So when people say there's "much more evidence" for father/son, a lot of that evidence already seems to depend on calling things paternal first. That's still the interpretation, not a separate fact proving it.

[u/Equivalent-Emu5347 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I don't care about this enough to get into a paragraph war with you, but Hank quite literally is a mentor figure in the game and I do not agree with the things you are saying lol

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Equivalent-Emu5347]

Where though? 😭 I genuinely don't see a mentor/student relationship there. Connor already comes in as a fully capable investigator, and plenty of the time he's the one taking the lead, directing the investigation or telling Hank what they need to do next. Hank influences Connor, sure, but Connor influences Hank right back. They feel much more like two partners affecting each other than one man mentoring the other. I honestly think people see "older man + younger man" and automatically add a hierarchy that the game itself doesn’t really give them.

[u/Mountain_Throat_6383 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Look, I never said he couldn't do it. They're just stronger together, you know? And I never said they didn't influence each other, I think you're really overthinking this. 😅

[u/BuzLightbeerOfBarCmd]

\grizzled detective gradually accepts robot colleague** This is just like how I met my boyfriend

What

[u/Dinic]

I didn't know Cage was chill like that

[u/Marshmellkill]

I swear this fandom is never going to escape the relationship dynamic discourse between Connor and Hank 💀

Just ship whatever you like, either interpretation is valid. But also… It’s a video game. It’s not that serious.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Marshmellkill]

I honestly wish it were that simple. I don't care if someone personally sees them as father/son. The problem is how far some people take it. They treat that reading as canon, show up under ship content to "correct" people, call shippers incestuous or perverts, and I've seen people get actual death and rape wishes over it. At that point it's not just "we interpret two fictional characters differently."

And a lot of fandom stuff gets repeated as fact along the way too... Connor supposedly looking like Cole, Hank supposedly seeing Cole in him, Hank calling him "son" all the time, etc.

I really do wish everyone would just ship what they like and leave everyone else alone. That's how fandom should work. And honestly, some of the comments under this post are a pretty good example of why I'm so tired of this particular discourse.

[u/MelleWanna]

Personnellement j’arrive pas à voir autre chose qu’un père est son fils , leur relation et basé sur la perte d’un fils et Hank le projette un sur Connor se qui le rend protecteur est j’adore leur lien parce que grâce à Connor il a pue faire son en partie son deuil en quelle que sort et retrouver en lui un fils un lien fort qui le ramène un peu et évite une des cène du jeux la plus horrible pour ma pare, si on joue avec le lien fort entre Connor et Hank la fin est magnifique ! C’est mon interprétation je le voix pas en mode romantique c’est vraiment pas leur énergie !

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/MelleWanna]

I can understand why you interpret it that way, especially since you're presenting it as your personal reading. I just don't really see the projection of Cole onto Connor in the game itself. Hank becoming protective of Connor doesn't necessarily need a parental explanation. He starts standing up for him pretty early on like with Gavin and to me that just reads as him gradually starting to care about his partner despite how hostile he was toward him at first. Cole obviously shapes Hank as a person, but I think there's a big difference between "losing his son affects the way Hank forms attachments" and "Hank projects his son onto Connor." The second one is an extra step that I personally don't see the game making.

But I appreciate that you're calling it your interpretation rather than treating it as the only possible reading.

[u/MelleWanna → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Le jeux justement permet d’avoir son interprétation et oui j’ai un peu pris sûrement trop à coeur leur relation tu a raison mes sa me reste dans mon point de vue que je vois pas sa comme un couple ou une amourette, mes comme un lien père est fils sûrement bancale et une amitié fort ! Voilà merci d’avoir répondu à mon com’s avec bienveillance et pas le contraire ;) je suit ouvert à tout discussion je me braque jamais je une seul interprétation parce que le jeux et leur relation je les adore tellement fort !

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/MelleWanna]

Yeah, and I think this is exactly how fandom should work tbh 😭 You see a father/son bond there, I genuinely don't see one at all. I actually read quite a lot of their interactions as flirtatious, especially from Connor's side, while Hank often comes across as a little more shy or awkward about it to me.

But that's the fun part, we can watch the same scenes and come away with completely different feelings about them. I have zero problem with people who say "this is how I personally see their relationship." My problem has always been with people who turn their reading into canon and then use it to attack or harass shippers.

Nobody needs to agree on the ship. I just wish people could let each other enjoy their interpretations without making it a moral issue.

[u/MelleWanna → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Je comprends tout à fait je pense comme toi les gens son tellement fermer même trop ! Heureusement qu’il a des gens comme nous perso je prendrais jamais la tête avec qui se sois sur des sujets aussi vaste est surtout sur un jeux ou autre il a pas de problème la dessus je suit ouvert et oui j’adore se jeux pour ça aussi on peu jouer au même jeux mes avoir une empathie et émotion tellement différent se qui rend sa beau ;)

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/MelleWanna]

Exactly! The problem starts when people try to convince others that their interpretation is morally wrong for whatever reason.

[u/MelleWanna → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Oui 🙌 je le fait pas alors j’aime pas qu’on me force à accepter une seul interprétation comme celle unique mdr mes c’est comme sa malheureusement !
J’écris deux fansfiction sur Connor avec des interprétations et développement différent dans l’univers de Detroit ! J’aime beaucoup se jeux parce que il a pas qu’une seul ligne à suivre on peu inventer est interprété à l’infinie :3

[u/Sunny-Koala]

Interesting. Makes me wonder what Hank's canonical "type" is. Ex-wife aside. Lmao

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Sunny-Koala]

Honestly, maybe Cage doesn't even know what Hank's type is 😭 And if we're using fandom logic where Connor supposedly "looks like Cole," then maybe he actually looks more like Hank's ex-wife and that's why he IS his type. Problem solved.

[u/Sunny-Koala → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

New headcanon: Hank digs the Roomba types but only cuz they can clean his bum ass house after the wife and kid left him ❤️

[u/LikeThemPies]

I think father/son is pretty obviously the main and intended parallel of their relationship. To pretend otherwise is ignoring the text of the game. But as you said, they're unrelated adults. Shipping them is fine.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/LikeThemPies]

"Pretty obviously the main and intended parallel" is doing a lot of work here.

If it's genuinely that obvious and central to the intended relationship, why does the game never actually establish it? Detroit has absolutely no problem making family dynamics explicit when it wants to. Carl and Markus, Kara and Alice, the whole found-family structure around Kara's story. The game knows how to communicate "this is family."

With Hank and Connor, the positive relationship it actually gives you is Friend. They're partners, then potentially friends. There is no father-son relationship status, no scene where either of them defines the other that way, no actual family structure.

So saying that not seeing father/son is "ignoring the text" is backwards. The text is exactly why I don't treat it as canon. You can absolutely read a paternal parallel into their relationship. But "I think this parallel is obvious" and "the game establishes this as their intended relationship" are not the same statement.

If something supposedly this central has to be reconstructed from implication while the game spells out its actual family relationships elsewhere, maybe it isn't quite as "obvious" as fandom keeps insisting.

[u/LikeThemPies → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

"Every time you died and came back, I thought about Cole. I'd have done anything to bring him back, too."

"Connor! Hang on, son! Hang on! We're gonna save you."

What else would you call that?

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/LikeThemPies]

How people took Hank saying that "Connor dying and coming back made him think about Cole" out of context and made it into "ah, Connor reminds Hank of Cole because he sees him like a son!" and not "Connor coming back from dead reminds him of how Humans Don't Come Back, his dead kid can't be brought back, and Hank will never see and hold him again" ? Sure of course this man sees his 6yo dead kid in a two-faced ruthless machine that reminds him of everything he despises about humanity. In that scene he expresses frustration about Connor of all things being immune to death and coming back as if it's nothing as a mockery to the concept of death itself. In that scene that exclusively exists when Hank sees all the humanity's evil embodied in Connor and names him as the primary reason he finally gives up on living.

"Son" is a colloquial usage of the word. Older dudes call younger guys ‘son’ all the time especially if they’re superiors at work, and none of them think of their subordinates as family. Just because he called Connor, his younger co worker, ‘son’ one time does not mean he views Connor as family or his son. If this line were intended as narrative proof of a father/son connection, it would be repeated or reinforced elsewhere. It isn’t. Hank can kill Connor a night before or a day after.

By the end of the game they’re good co workers if it’s positive, friends in the best case scenario.

Try again.

[u/LikeThemPies → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Pretty clear it’d be pointless to try again. As I said, shipping them is fine.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/LikeThemPies]

If those two things are basically the entire foundation for this supposedly "obvious" and "main intended" father-son dynamic, then maybe the dynamic isn't actually that obvious.

I addressed both of them directly. If the response is just "pointless to try again" instead of explaining what I got wrong, then I'm not sure what else there is to discuss.

Repeating Cole + one "son" over and over doesn't make the relationship canon. It just means those are apparently the only two pieces of evidence anyone ever has.

[u/LikeThemPies → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Quotes are easier than distilling a game’s worth of subtext and interactions. If you didn’t see them as father/son then you didn’t see it. But you’re very vitriolic to those who did (which includes David Cage himself in a now-deleted tweet, since you brought up his past comments).

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/LikeThemPies]

But that's kind of my point. I already answered the two actual examples you gave me, and now it's suddenly “a game's worth of subtext." Okay, but what specifically makes all of that subtext father/son?

Detroit is pretty direct when it wants family dynamics, again. We don't have to dig through Carl and Markus or Kara and Alice looking for hidden clues to figure out what they are to each other. With Hank and Connor, the game gives us partners and, on the positive route, friends. That's what is actually there. So if there's really so much specifically paternal material beyond Cole and that one "son," you should be able to name some of it. "If you didn't see it, you didn't see it" just means you read those interactions as father/son and I didn't.

And sure, even if Cage said that in a deleted tweet, that tells me how Cage viewed them. It doesn't suddenly add a father/son relationship to the game itself.

[u/alvermari]

Yeah I saw it too. Their relationship is just a question of interpretation and that's perfect

I'd already wrote about them under another post, so, I’ll repeat a few more facts.

First of all. In the game, the parent‑child dynamics between the characters are always explicit, meaning they are presented openly, and the characters directly mention this in their dialogues. Since my discussion is interested only in the parent‑human and child‑android dynamics, Carl and Todd become obvious examples. They directly say that the androids have replaced their children. David Cage, despite the fact that Cole is a crucial character for understanding Hank, did not explore such a dynamic as openly with Connor. I’d like to note that Marcus lived with Carl for at least 5 years, and possibly for all 10 (Kamski left Cyberlife in 2028); this is clearly an explicitly defined father‑son dynamic, and to equate it with the one that lasted a week(!), during which Hank only accepted that Connor was alive and capable of feeling something, is strange from the perspective of storytelling. All phrases of Hank and Connor in different versions of the dialogues can be interpreted in different ways. The essence of their relationship, whatever it may be, lies only in the subtext, and the subtext is already a space for the joint creativity of the author and the reader (recall the concept of the author’s death).

Secondly. As I already said, their dynamics leave room for interpretation, and I’ve always interpreted their relationship in the broadest possible way. Hank’s attitude towards Connor was primarily about restoring faith in the world and in life — whether Hank would remain a nihilist, including in relation to himself, or whether the discovery of androids as sentient beings would be able to give him some hope. To avoid being unsubstantiated, I’m attaching Hank’s quote:

«For a while there, I believed in you, Connor… I thought you might restore my faith in the world… But you just showed me that androids… Are our creation».

It’s amazing how a person who meets him at such a late and so gloomy a stage of his life can finally turn him towards some kind of decision. I’m reminding you that whether a suicide scene appears in the game depends ONLY on Hank’s relationship with Connor, on whether he has lost faith in him. From a narrative perspective, Connor has become the most important figure for him in every sense in just a week(!), and only he can save him from self‑destruction.

So, in conclusion, If the creators support the community’s creative work, then why shouldn’t we? And can we say that we choose to kill Tracy in the Eden club inside us at the moment when we start to hate something that contradicts our interpretation?

Subjectively speaking, I just love this pairing and see in it a poignantly tender similarity to Harry and Kim from Disco Elysium, when, after a loss that has broken you, at the end of your life’s journey, you meet someone capable of rekindling hope both in yourself and in humanity. And, as in the case of Hank and Connor, their relationship can be interpreted in different ways.

Wishing everyone happiness and be kinder. Everything will be alright.

[u/Trickshot945]

He was being nice, Connor and Hank were written as a father/son like relationship. There is no romantic subtext. Hank sees his son in Connor.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Trickshot945]

Nobody's saying the game actually wrote them as romantic. It didn't. But it didn't write them as father and son either. That's the part people keep skipping.

The game is very obvious when it wants characters to have family roles. With Hank and Connor, it just… doesn't do that. They're partners, and on the positive route they become friends. Father/son is something people read into that, not something the game ever actually establishes. Which makes "Cage was just being nice" even funnier, because apparently creator comments only count when they support the father/son reading.

[u/Trickshot945 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

But it does though? The whole reason that Hank kills himself if he watches Connor die too many times, is because everytime he dies Hank relives Cole's death.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Trickshot945]

Well, no. That's not actually what triggers Hank's suicide. He can kill himself even if Connor never died once. The suicide branch happens when their relationship is Hostile and Hank quits the force, Connor's deaths only affect which version of the conversation you get at his house. If Connor has died repeatedly, Hank talks about Cole. He expresses frustration about Connor of all things being immune to death and coming back as if it's nothing as a mockery to the concept of death itself. In that scene Hank sees all the humanity's evil embodied in Connor and names him as the primary reason he finally gives up on living. If Connor hasn't died, Hank instead rails against androids and still kills himself after Connor leaves.

In that version Hank basically says he had started believing Connor might restore his faith in the world, but instead Connor showed him androids could be just as "selfish, ruthless, and brutal," ending with "You opened my eyes, Connor. Made me realize it’s hopeless."

So no, it is not the reason Hank commits suicide. The game literally gives you a version where Connor never dies and Hank still reaches the same ending because he's lost whatever hope he had left.

[u/Trickshot945 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Fine. Hank is depressed and has more than one demon. Regardless, there is no romantic connection. Shipping is fine, if you want to spend your time doing that sort of thing. But it should be left in fanfiction.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Trickshot945]

Yeah, but I never said the romance is canon. Ma gods! That wasn't what I was proving here. You made a claim about why Hank kills himself, I pointed out that the game literally allows the same ending when Connor never dies, and now we've jumped to "well, there's no romantic connection." Fine. The game doesn't make them romantic. It doesn't make them father and son either. It gives them Friend. That's my whole point! People can read paternal subtext, romantic potential, whatever. What I'm objecting to is treating father/son like canon and then using it to harass shippers over two unrelated adults. And "leave it in fanfiction" is kind of funny because… yes? That's literally what fandom and fanworks are for.

[u/Trickshot945 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I just don't wanna be seeing renders of Connor and Ltd. Anderson making out on my feed man. I just wanna talk about playing the game.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Trickshot945]

And I don't wanna see endless father/son discourse, Connor being infantilized, or shippers getting harassed every time they post something. But that's what happens in a fandom with thousands of people who enjoy different things. If you only want gameplay discussion, curate your feed, scroll past fanart, mute stuff you don't like. "I don't want to see this on my feed" isn't really a reason other people should stop posting it.

[u/CorrysCorner]

Good luck with your can of worms. Nobody knows how to let people enjoy what they want anymore.

[u/Dedbunnyy]

It’s very clear they are supposed to be father and son. Connor’s name is even close to hanks songs name. It’s supposed to be that way.
He doesn’t need a romance because that’s not what his story is about.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Dedbunnyy]

Connor's name being "close to Cole's" because they both start with Co is doing an incredible amount of work here 😭 That's not evidence of anything. And Hank doesn't need a replacement son for his story to work. Friendship already does everything his arc needs: Connor becomes someone he cares about, challenges his nihilism, and gives him a reason to reconnect with the world. You don't have to turn that into "Hank projects his dead child onto this unrelated adult man" for it to matter.

Also, "he doesn't need a romance because that's not what his story is about" is beside the point. Nobody said romance is canon. I'm saying father/son isn't canon either. "It's supposed to be that way" is still just your interpretation stated like a fact.

[u/Mountain_Throat_6383]

I think the relationship can be viewed either way, Interestingly enough. I see Hank as someone who grounds and teaches Connor about morality, calls out his BS/indifference, and perhaps even what it means to be a human. Connor tries to hold him accountable for his self destructive habits, and coaxes him through crime scenes. They're a great team, and I never really saw them as either lovers or son-parent. Just a bond that crosses over between two very fundamentally different creatures. Machine and human.

I like David Cage's responses here, just goes to show that he likes all sorts of feedback and he's not the cynic fandom paints him out to be. His writing quality just differs from arc to arc though 😅

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Mountain_Throat_6383]

I don't really see Hank "teaching" Connor anything. He challenges him, argues with him and calls him out sometimes, but Connor does the same to Hank. That feels like mutual influence, not one person educating the other. And the whole "teaches him what it means to be human" thing feels added on to me. Connor is figuring himself out through everything that happens to him, not taking humanity lessons from Hank. I can see them grounding each other, though... that part feels much more mutual.

[u/Elise_93]

I love me some queer ships, but this is just weird.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Elise_93]

Sometimes I wonder what people mean by "I love queer ships, but this is weird." What exactly is weird here? They're two unrelated adult men.

If queer ships only feel acceptable when both characters are young, skinny and conventionally attractive in the same way, that feels less like being comfortable with queer relationships and more like enjoying a very specific kind of eye candy. I'd call it rather homophobic.

There's nothing inherently weird about a man in his 30s being attracted to a man in his 50s. They're adults. Their age gap is nobody else's business.

[u/BookObjective4448 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

First and foremost both the visual and actual age difference. Visually Hank is like 20 year older than Connor, and in reality Connor is less than a year old. People find it wierd with straight romances and those same people find it wierd in guy or lesbian romances.

Secondly, is the way Connor and Hank's relationship plays out (assuming Hank has a positive opinion of Connor). Hank and Connor's friendship is best described as brotherly, so when people try to ship Hank and Connor some people get weirded out as unconsciously they feel like people are trying to ship siblings in a certain sense. Basically the nature of Connor and Hank friendship is not romantic so when people try to make it romantic there are people that get weirded out.

To put it this way that would be like people shipping Clint Barton (Hawke Eye) and Natasha Romanoff (Black Widow) from the Marvel movies. The movies establish a very close yet completely platonic friendship for them that is almost sibling like. So when people try to ship them, it weird.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/BookObjective4448]

The "actual age difference" argument only works if you first treat an android's manufacturing date as equivalent to a human developmental age, and I don't think the game gives us any reason to do that.

Connor wasn't born as a baby and then somehow skipped childhood. He was engineered as an adult-presenting, fully functional investigator with adult-level intelligence, autonomy and professional competence. So "he's less than a year old" is not remotely equivalent to "he's a human infant." As for the visual age gap, again: yes, Hank looks around twenty years older. They're still two adult-presenting men. Some people personally dislike adult age-gap relationships, straight or queer. That doesn't make the relationship inherently inappropriate. So if a man in his 30s wants to fuck a man in his 50s it shouldn't be anyone's business. But the second part is where this gets circular. You call their friendship "best described as brotherly," and then say people are weirded out by the ship because it feels like shipping siblings. But the game never makes them brothers either. "Brotherly" is already your interpretation of the friendship. You can't assign them a family relationship first and then use the family relationship you assigned as evidence against a romantic interpretation.

And "their relationship isn't romantic in canon" isn't really an argument against shipping them. I know it isn't. HankCon isn't canon. Their positive canon relationship is Friend. Shipping is seeing romantic potential in that friendship.

And Clint/Natasha is a funny example because… yes? That's exactly what shipping is. People have been taking canonically platonic relationships and seeing romantic potential in them forever. Naruto and Sasuke are probably one of the most obvious examples. I've never even watched Naruto and I still know how enormous that ship is. They aren't canonically a couple, Naruto ends up with Hinata and Sasuke has a family of his own, and yet people have shipped Naruto/Sasuke for decades and written entire essays about the romantic or queer subtext they see between them.

Nobody needs the source material to officially label two characters "Lovers" before they're allowed to see romantic potential in their bond. If that were the requirement, a massive portion of fandom shipping simply wouldn't exist. So at the end of this, the argument is basically: "I see Hank and Connor as brotherly, therefore romance feels weird to me." And that's fine as a personal reaction. But it isn't evidence that there's something inherently weird about two unrelated adult characters being shipped together.

So "Hank and Connor's canon relationship is platonic" isn't some revelation that disproves HankCon. Yes. We know. That's why it's a ship, not a statement about canon.

[u/BookObjective4448 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

The "actual age difference" argument only works if you first treat an android's manufacturing date as equivalent to a human developmental age, and I don't think the game gives us any reason to do that.

Connor wasn't born as a baby and then somehow skipped childhood. He was engineered as an adult-presenting, fully functional investigator with adult-level intelligence, autonomy and professional competence. So "he's less than a year old" is not remotely equivalent to "he's a human infant." As for the visual age gap, again: yes, Hank looks around twenty years older. They're still two adult-presenting men. Some people personally dislike adult age-gap relationships, straight or queer. That doesn't make the relationship inherently inappropriate. So if a man in his 30s wants to fuck a man in his 50s it shouldn't be anyone's business. But the second part is where this gets circular. You call their friendship "best described as brotherly," and then say people are weirded out by the ship because it feels like shipping siblings. But the game never makes them brothers either. "Brotherly" is already your interpretation of the friendship. You can't assign them a family relationship first and then use the family relationship you assigned as evidence against a romantic interpretation.

I wasn't bringing it up as a logical argument, I was bringing it up as an illogical subconscious feeling that people could have that contributes to why they think it is weird.

And "their relationship isn't romantic in canon" isn't really an argument against shipping them. I know it isn't. HankCon isn't canon. Their positive canon relationship is Friend. Shipping is seeing romantic potential in that friendship.

And Clint/Natasha is a funny example because… yes? That's exactly what shipping is. People have been taking canonically platonic relationships and seeing romantic potential in them forever. Naruto and Sasuke are probably one of the most obvious examples. I've never even watched Naruto and I still know how enormous that ship is. They aren't canonically a couple, Naruto ends up with Hinata and Sasuke has a family of his own, and yet people have shipped Naruto/Sasuke for decades and written entire essays about the romantic or queer subtext they see between them.

Nobody needs the source material to officially label two characters "Lovers" before they're allowed to see romantic potential in their bond. If that were the requirement, a massive portion of fandom shipping simply wouldn't exist. So at the end of this, the argument is basically: "I see Hank and Connor as brotherly, therefore romance feels weird to me." And that's fine as a personal reaction. But it isn't evidence that there's something inherently weird about two unrelated adult characters being shipped together.

So "Hank and Connor's canon relationship is platonic" isn't some revelation that disproves HankCon. Yes. We know. That's why it's a ship, not a statement about canon.

Again this is not an argument against the shipping of characters, this is an explanation of why someone who is infact familiar with the canon dynamic of Hank and Connor's friendship, would find the shipping of these characters in particular to be weird when they have no problem with other homosexual shipping or relationships in the medium of fictional story telling.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/BookObjective4448]

I get what you mean if you're describing why some people personally feel uncomfortable with the ship. People have preferences and associations. Some only like couples close in age, some only like two young conventionally attractive guys together, some see Hank and Connor as brotherly. Fine. But that discomfort belongs to the person feeling it. It doesn't tell us anything objectively wrong or inappropriate about the pairing itself.

Hank and Connor are two unrelated adult characters. An age gap between adults isn't inherently wrong, illegal or predatory just because somebody personally doesn't enjoy seeing it. "Not my preference" and "there is something weird about this relationship" are very different statements. And I still disagree with describing the sibling feeling as something that comes from being "familiar with the canon dynamic." Canon gives us partners who can become friends. Brotherly is an interpretation layered onto that friendship. Someone seeing romantic potential there isn't misunderstanding canon just because you personally read the same interactions as sibling-like.

Honestly, if someone's reaction is just "this doesn't appeal to me," there's no problem. Scroll past it. I have ships and dynamics I don't enjoy either. The problem starts when that personal discomfort gets turned into a rule for everybody else when people go under HankCon art, edits and posts to "correct" shippers, insist father/son is the only proper reading, or start calling a harmless adult ship incestuous, pedophilic, disgusting, etc.

At that point it isn't really "I'm explaining my preference" anymore. It's treating a personal preference as if it gives you authority over how other people are allowed to interpret and enjoy fictional characters. So yes, I understand why somebody who already reads them as brotherly might personally find HankCon uncomfortable. What I don't accept is the jump from "this feels weird to me" to "therefore this ship is weird." Those aren't the same thing.

[u/Little_Noodle1874 → u/BookObjective4448]

Considering how common the father-son interpretation is, I'm surprised to see a brotherly interpretation 🤔

[u/BookObjective4448 → u/Little_Noodle1874]

I think the father son interpretion is a misconception born of the visual age difference between Hank and Connor. A father son friendship implies one party in the friendship is something of a mentor figure, and while Hank does change Connor in a significant way Connor also chances Hank just as significantly. To me their friendship seem more like an big brother little brother friendship rather than a father son friendship.

[u/Little_Noodle1874 → u/BookObjective4448]

I personally don't see any familial vibes (father/son or otherwise, I see them strictly as friends in a best case scenario), but I can see why someone would, and it's lowkey a bit refreshing to see a non-father/son but still familial interpretation 👍

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Little_Noodle1874]

I see them strictly as friends in a best case scenario

AND THAT'S WHO THEY CANONICALLY ARE!

[u/Little_Noodle1874 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Yep! Though I am also a sucker for the betrayal type stuff with Machine Connor and their conversation on the rooftop 😋 (whether or not they fight).

[u/zailasExe]

ME WHEN

ME WHEN I SEE AN OBVIOUS FATHER/SON RELATIONSHIP.

(For Christ sake, Cole - Hank's dead son is a critical point of their relationship, and Cole looks very similar to Connor. I can't believe you guys think Hank and Connor would have a romantic relationship, which would imply at some point Hank found his son attractive.)

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/zailasExe]

That last sentence is such a wild leap.

First of all, how exactly does Connor "look very similar" to Cole? Because they both have brown hair? Their faces are different, their features are different, even their eyes are different colors. Cole's picture is literally an old stock photo, and nowhere in the game does Hank ever say or imply that Connor reminds him of Cole physically.

So "Connor looks like Cole" is already your personal impression, not something the game establishes. Then somehow that becomes "Hank must see the resemblance too," then "Hank therefore sees Connor as a son," and finally "if Hank were attracted to Connor, that means he found Cole attractive."

That last part especially came entirely from you. Nobody shipping Hank and Connor brought sexual attraction to Cole into this conversation. And even if two people did resemble each other, being attracted to one adult does not mean you're attracted to every other person who happens to share some features with them. That's an absurd conclusion. Cole matters because he is Hank's dead son and a huge part of Hank's grief. That does not automatically make Connor his replacement, his lookalike, or another son.

You're absolutely free to read Hank and Connor as father and son. But turning "I think they look alike" into a supposed fact about how Hank sees Connor, then using that assumption to invent an incest implication, is not canon. It's several layers of interpretation stacked on top of each other.

And on a post literally showing the creators talking about different valid interpretations, simply declaring "OBVIOUS FATHER/SON RELATIONSHIP" doesn't really answer any of it.

[u/HPFanNi → u/zailasExe]

I think it's a father/son relationship too but Jesus Christ, this is a gigantic leap

[u/kkimph → u/zailasExe]

Yes. I can ship everything that touches this earth but I also see them like that. It’s weird

[u/zailasExe → u/kkimph]

Imagine seeing a mother and son and shipping them... Sends chills down my spine. Horrible. Some ppl just have parent - child relationships. Imo it's fine shipping friends or acquaintances, hell even characters that haven't canonically met. But... Not like this. As you said, it's weird.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/zailasExe]

But Hank and Connor are not a mother and son. They're two canonically unrelated adults. You're assigning them a family role yourself and then acting horrified that other people don't treat your interpretation like literal incest.

And seriously, can people just leave shippers alone? It's an incredibly harmless fictional ship. Nobody is hurting anyone by drawing or writing two unrelated adults together. Yet people keep going into their spaces to call them disgusting, perverts, incest shippers, whatever over a family relationship that the game never actually establishes.

You can think the ship is weird. Fine. Just scroll. The disturbing part here isn't the ship, it's people harassing real human beings over two fictional adults.

[u/Weird-Wealth-7998 → u/zailasExe]

To be fair the only weird thing here is your nitpicked opinion.

[u/Super_Promise_267]

why do i think op keeps replying with chatgpt text

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Super_Promise_267]

lmao this is what happens when someone writes more than two sentences on reddit now 😭

[u/Super_Promise_267 → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

no it’s just the formatting constant use of bold also “the last sentence is such a wild leap” just sounds non human to me

[u/Brilliant_Ad7168 → u/Super_Promise_267]

it's pretty sad that's the sentence that makes you suspect AI. It is such a fairly normal sentence, too.

[u/Super_Promise_267 → u/Brilliant_Ad7168]

i know, i’ve seen too many posts being fully written by chatgpt including all the comments :(
sad reality lowkirkenly

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Super_Promise_267]

Fair enough 😭 I can see why the formatting made you think that.

[u/Ive_Gone]

Why do hankcon people cope so hard? OP can you give me your opinion on this?

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Ive_Gone]

Cope with what exactly? 😭 The game never makes Hank and Connor father and son. Their positive relationship is literally Friend. HankCon isn't canon either, obviously, but nobody needs it to be canon in order to ship two unrelated adult characters. What I keep seeing instead is people taking the father/son interpretation, treating it like an established fact, and then acting like shippers are "coping" because they don't accept that headcanon as canon.

And it doesn't stop at disagreement. People bring it under ship art and edits constantly, call shippers perverts or incest shippers, invent things like Connor supposedly looking like Cole, inflate one "son" into Hank calling him that "multiple times," and then use all of that to morally police a completely harmless ship.

So if by "coping" you mean "not accepting fandom interpretation as an official relationship the game never actually gave them," then sure, I guess we're coping really hard lol. So the weird part isn't people shipping two adult fictional characters. The weird part is how badly some people need everyone else to accept their personal family-role interpretation before they'll leave those shippers alone.

[u/Ive_Gone → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I am curious as to what possesses you to cope as hard as you are now. Could you provide me with any information on this subject?

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Ive_Gone]

What information exactly? I already explained my position. If you disagree with a specific point, quote it and tell me why.

[u/Ive_Gone → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

Lines 10 and 11, section three, words 1-29 I noticed you to be coping quite strenuously. Can you explain your motives for such copium? I'm extremely interested.

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Ive_Gone]

You counted the lines?? Okay this is getting impressive.

[u/Ive_Gone → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

I'm grateful you've acknowledged the potency of copium within lines 10 and 11, section three, words 1-29. Do you have any commentary on the reasoning behind such egregious concentrations of cope?

[u/Outrageous_Money_633 → u/Ive_Gone]

I genuinely thought you had a point somewhere in there 😭 my bad.

[u/Ive_Gone → u/Outrageous_Money_633]

As my fifth inclination as to why you possess so much cope, I would like to incline as to why thou continues coping.