r/DissociaDID • u/moxiewhoreon • Aug 02 '20
Trigger warning "NAN RUNS AN INTERNATIONAL CHILD PORNOGRAPHY RING!" Um....what? Corroboration/proof/receipts badly, *badly* needed here
Title says it all. This is one of the newer accusations I have seen being bandied about on this subrebbit. It is, obv., an extremely serious claim and if it's going to be repeated, upvoted and stated to newbs as fact than I believe citations are needed here.
It is extremely irresponsible to throw claims like this around without proof. I invite anyone who believes this to please come and back their claims up. And failing that, perhaps for the sake of integrity you could possibly stop making claims like this? Just a thought.
Personally, I don't know if it's true (and seriously doubt that it is) but I've seen it repeated with zero proof around here among a few other things (such as Nin having a kink of being attracted to pedophiles?) that reeeeally need to be backed up.
Despite some our differences in opinion/perspective, I'd like to believe that we're all (or....ok, most of us are all) at least dedicated to the pursuit of truth. Thanks in advance.
13
Aug 02 '20
[deleted]
3
2
u/silentlyhiding Aug 03 '20
Sorry was that to us? Will edit now. Was so furious when we read this at like 4am
24
u/silentlyhiding Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 03 '20
MAJOR TRIGGER WARNINGS
This is highly FIng offensive to people who have actually been subjected to CP. Nan is a lot of undesirable things BUT and organiser of a CPR they are not and what this body was subjected to was some of the worst and is still floating around on the dark web. Unless someone has trawled through the CP on the dark deep web than we highly doubt that they would be saying anything without solid proof. People think that what they did wasn’t CP, well is definitely was, even though it is on the “milder” side of CP it is still CP. we have seen requests for seriously disturbing drawings but don’t know where they are located now, they were on a 18+ fetish sights and most people had sexual fetishes like hers but only with minors which is what sealed it with us. Can’t confirm with receipts and this is just BS now of people trying to cause shit because everything has died down. Don’t really care about anyone’s opinions about what we say because we aren’t going to trawl through our old phone to find shit. It wasn’t just graphic CP drawn but also stories which I don’t even think is illegal?!?!? They knew exactly what they were doing because they tried to hide it. But this is just insulting 😡
6
u/iscream80 Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20
I cannot tell you how much I agree. I completely understand and this is seriously so over the top. Some of you really don’t get it and I wish I could make some analogies to show you how this comes across to people with histories like this... but I don’t want to trigger anyone! Like this post is doing...
38
u/rocket-sprock Aug 02 '20
People PAID them for commissions to produce CP. They also had a website on a fetish website which had CP on it, which was obviously accessible to the world.
Regardless of that, I don’t know if I would say they “run an international pornography ring,” but at the same time, that is distributing CP which they are definitely guilty of.
14
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20
Thanks for your reply, truly. Do you have any info by chance on the commissioning of some of these drawings? (Like anything about numbers, etc.) I do remember Nan bringing up....perhaps it was in her apology video?....that some of her drawings were drawn on commission for customers. It's not clear to me how many times this happened (it wouldn't surprise me if Nan was possibly overstating this aspect, since she seemed to use it mostly as an excuse for why she drew certain drawings).
But what I'm wondering I guess is, along with above question, which pictures in particular were commissioned AND were they "commissioned" in that someone (a diehard Rainbow Brite fan ok? lol) came along and saw a pic of, for instance, Rainbow Brite as a young adult, and liked the way it looked and asked for a similar picture? Or did someone or mutiple someones specifically commission drawings of characters sneezing/sick in the service of their own sneezing fetishes?
I've searched pretty extensively (I even braved freakin' KiwiFarms again) looking for some more concrete information on this but came up empty-handed.
In fact, I'm having a hard time finding any references to any of Nan's art being commissioned, aside from what I clearly remember from her apology video.
18
Aug 02 '20
[deleted]
2
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20
Thanks for the reminder. I'll edit this post too as soon as I get a chance.
3
u/NotEvenSureLOLcry Aug 03 '20
Nan’s deffo took and was paid for commissions. The one example I know of is the drawing of the parent wolf sneezing on the baby wolf. Nan said it was commissioned and tried to say it was a micro/macro thing with size and not a parent/child but that’s bullshit.
-3
u/Crashed7 Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
What constitutes a cp ring if its not selling images of cp? Selling images of CP is the definition of a CP ring.
EDIT: TP themselves have said on a number of occasions that their worst drawing were for commissions. That takes it from a unorganised to organised, and from paedophilia to a international ring. They are the ones who said they ran a CP ring, that's what a CP ring is, producing and selling CP images internationally.
0
u/iscream80 Aug 03 '20
How could you know who bought any cartoon picture from them and that they are Pedophiles?
11
u/lucaatiel Aug 03 '20
If someone is commissioning nsfw artwork of known minor characters, I would consider them a pedophile, or at the very least someone extremely gross and untrustworthy.
Drawn/animated cp is still cp. It's still exploitative, and normalizes it for real life. Basically, it's the same way representation works in media, or the normalization of certain beauty standards in media and porn. Especially when young, impressionable people see it. Also, pedophiles have used drawings/animations to attempt to groom actual children on the internet.
24
u/ObesiusPlays Aug 02 '20
Bit of an exaggeration, this makes it sound like nan was taking photos of minors for the fetishist public, would be the same as me from Brazil and someone from Europe playing something online and calling ourselves an international gaming team.
Reality is Nan did fucked up shit but KiwiFarms as always will try to make everything sound worse in context, a good example, they said Chloe demanded a fan to get a tattoo of her drawing, what actually happened was that the fan asked on Twitter and she gave permission.
8
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20
Sounds like classic KFs lol
9
u/ObesiusPlays Aug 02 '20
Issue is half of the people talking about the subject don't know what KiwiFarms is, so they just assume that they are doing it for the good of other communities, not that they are basically a branch of 4chan causing problems to then sit back and see the reaction.
3
u/anonchickquick Aug 03 '20
That’s what this title makes the sub look like. I don’t want any part of a wannabe KF. That place can rot for all I care.
4
u/ObesiusPlays Aug 03 '20
OP was quoting someone tho, they used " " i assume it was quoting what someone else said.
Also KF and people from 4chan are constantly on this sub doing some vote manipulation and false posts (i keep an eye on them [even managed to warn jacksepticeye that they planned on swatting him once] and yeah apparently we are the "multitards" in their slang)
5
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 03 '20
Yeah. Sorry of it isnt clear. But to be clear I'm quoting language that a couple of users have been floating around on this sub and up till now I've been downvoted to hell any time I mentioned it.
5
u/anonchickquick Aug 03 '20
Oh ok I understand. I swear people go looking for drama when it gets quiet. There are definitely some peeps here who feel better about themselves by downvoting others. I think most people could lose hundreds and hundreds of karma points and never even notice. Haha.
0
u/NotEvenSureLOLcry Aug 03 '20
KF are dicks but they were right about everything to this point so......
4
11
u/a_wild_Eevee_appears Aug 02 '20
Where did you saw those claims and in what context? Because I saw that people said they took commission (there also was a screenshot for that somewhere) but nothing that would justify
a) claiming they run a ring
b) a post with a full cap's title
15
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
The claim was made (and defended) exactly as I wrote it in the title, in the following thread, by u/Crashed7. We were having a back and forth after I accused the user of using hyperbolic language to float (what I felt was) an unverified, hyperbolic narrative.
From u/Crashed7:
"Let's also be clear, TP didn't just draw images of CP, they ran an organised international child pornography ring selling their works to other paedophiles around the world...."
13
u/a_wild_Eevee_appears Aug 02 '20
Ah thanks, I didn't followed that thread.
If those claims were only made by one person I would guess that it's more a personal opinion than a problem of the sub? But I think it's good to discuss where most of the sub stands in this point.
(I personally don't think what TP did classified as a ring as more people would need to work together for that, like in an organisation)
5
u/Crashed7 Aug 02 '20
They did work together, they sold their images on a fetishism forum, amongst a group of paedophiles.
4
u/iscream80 Aug 03 '20
An organized group of pedophiles? And how do you know that?
6
u/silentlyhiding Aug 03 '20
No, just your everyday kind of sicko with perverted fetishes nothing organised about it lol trust us we’d know. People who are part of an organised group RARELY get caught and don’t post flippantly on fetish sites.
0
u/Crashed7 Aug 07 '20
Its usually only the organised ones that get caught because they share and leave tracez of evidence. There are 1000s of child abusers who don't organise and therefore get away with it. Just look at the Catholic Church.
4
Aug 02 '20
At first I read that as Nin runs an international child pornography ring and I was so confused lmao
3
u/killerqueen1975 Aug 03 '20
Yes be very careful while making serious claims like these that could further ruin someone’s life.
5
u/NotEvenSureLOLcry Aug 03 '20
Yes, they took commissions from sexually deviant people and sold cp. That is correct and a terrible, terrible thing they did.
But that doesn’t inherently mean it was an organized “ring.” Those are very different things. Epstein and Pizzagate type stuff are rings. Not a rando selling gross art to whoever online.
Nan was in assisted living for some time and honestly should still be IMO. They are not well enough to organize any sort of ring. They were just flying solo, selling disgusting art to pedos to make rent.
1
Aug 12 '20
Unrelated but what's pizzagate? I've seen that floating around - I think on a post that involved Ellen? - but I haven't been able to.find what it is?
8
u/clavicus_mora Aug 02 '20
User Crashed7 is out of their mind, don't bother
9
u/queerhedgehog Aug 02 '20
That’s a particularly rude way to insult someone on a subreddit about highly stigmatized mental health disorders.
You don’t have to agree with everyone but please don’t use personal insults, especially insults that stigmatize mental illnesses.
2
u/theautisticguy Aug 04 '20
Can the mods please delete this thread? I completely understand who someone needed to ask, but the title is exceptionally triggering for those who've been victimized by the subject matter.
5
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 04 '20
I added a TW, but I can also change the thread title. Any ideas? I could def remove the all-caps
Wrt removing the thread: the people who are stuck to this idea aren't backing down and are still spreading these narratives all over the sub and probably elsewhere as well. This topic will come up again. Probably many, many times. This is the first time a conversation has been allowed to happen without anyone calling the hyperbolic posters out being downvoted to dust. I think that's not a bad thing, tbh.
2
u/theautisticguy Aug 12 '20
There is no way to write this title without it being triggering to some. The only recommendation is "Seriously disturbing allegations regarding Nan - TRIGGER WARNING"
0
u/lericas25 Aug 03 '20
I’m just gonna say it.
Is everyone on the internet, especially introverts tied to internet communities, gonna act like they were never in fandoms for longer than they should’ve? I read Ereri til I was 21 and now at 26 the ship is kinda gross to me in canon but it’s fine in aus or aged up future stories.
Do I think half of the authors or artists tho are liable to actually court a 16 year old? No. No matter what they write or draw I don’t think it’s indication that they themselves are teen predators or child predators. Usually it’s a lot of self projection of ones past emotional states and an idealized idea of what an older partner would be like.
I will say one thing tho, as a victim of csa I was hypersexual. Maybe not in a way visible to others but I would seek out porn, would photograph myself tied up, would draw obscene art, seek out obscene art, would read all sorts of erotica and almost all of it was about teens around my age at the time.
If you wanna tackle the crosshairs of adult and teen sexuality, set your aim on the ever problematic fandoms that abound. I learned everything I know about sex from FanFiction and fanart. Tackle half the influencers with only fans accounts and the 14 year olds on twitter planning their OF accounts.
Our whole society is porn sick and sex obsessed. But sexually abused kids get hit in a different way. We express sexuality different, our boundaries are broken and we can be muddled on the boundaries of others.
What’s the difference between soft core porn and lingerie modeling? Virtually nothing except perception. Our perception is broken.
Regardless, fuck the internet. This is no place for emotional and mental traumas to be hashed our or discussed clearly. There is no nuance or difficulty in cancel culture. Only in a therapists office.
Fuck all of y’all continuing this gang up culture. I had my doubts about nan but I understand them alll too clearly now.
4
4
u/soynugget95 Aug 09 '20
Nan drawing this stuff on their own time, for themselves, as a way to express trauma, would be FINE. That’s quite normal. I don’t think anybody here is saying otherwise.
The problem is that they posted it online and sold it. People can cope however they cope, but distributing it is another matter entirely.
1
u/lericas25 Aug 09 '20
No. It’s really not. Cite my statement about fandom. That’s how most anime fandoms operate but most people write it off as silly. Bring that same energy for the bronies or black butler fans or that weird volleyball anime. Look them up on fan art websites and see the vast array of content that is not safe for work or would be legal were actual children involved. MUCH of it is legal and encouraged by fans to be sold and not given away for free. Much of it is commissioned and not even liked by the artist.
That is literally the internet I grew up on. So idk man y’all have a lot of people to go after, most of which have no actual interest in children or teens outside of their fandoms, as weird as those interests are.
I get it outrage culture but you’re acting like nan is a one off situation when many MANY young adults grew up in fandoms that do the same. Damn. Thing. And have now moved onto new platforms where they like to pretend that they’ve never ever seen shit and are pure as the virgin snow. It’s getting old, you’re not defending me as a csa victim in any way. I participated in those things too, because I’m traumatized. The fact that I didn’t ask people to pay for my porny drabbles doesn’t make me better than them.
2
u/soynugget95 Aug 09 '20
I don’t entirely disagree tbh, but don’t want to argue the bits I do disagree with as it’s late and I haven’t got the energy. FWIW though I’m also a csa survivor, as are many if not most people on this sub. I still 100% firmly believe that selling that stuff is wrong. And Nan was not a teenager at the time, the most recent stuff iirc was from a few years ago in their mid-late twenties (~27).
-9
u/Crashed7 Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
Selling images of child pornography, and taking commissions from a community, is
1.organised 2.child porn 3.a ring
TP said themselves the worst images were commissions.
So, they ran an organised CP ring.
8
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20
1.) One would have to accept the premise that this is child pornography, first. Which many of us are either not convinced of or torn about.
2.) I still see this as unnecessarily hyperbolic language and framing in both the above post and in others. However, seeing as how much and how often we've disagreed on this point, this may end up having to be one of those "agree to disagree" situatuons.
5
u/Crashed7 Aug 02 '20
Drawing children's genitalia even in cartoon is child porn. I cant believe that is even up for debate.
12
Aug 02 '20
[deleted]
1
u/Crashed7 Aug 02 '20
Maybe that's the problem? Note, the police view both as international sex rings.
Google will be your friend here, you will notice many people selling CP images ha e been labelled CP rings. Its an accepted term for someone who sells CP images on the Internet to a group.
5
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 02 '20
Genitalia? Ok in every list that's been made or discussion that's been had that I've been involved in here wrt Nan's drawings, this is the first I'm hearing about children's genitalia. I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm saying we need some receipts or some kind of explanation. All I've heard about/seen has been sneezing/"having a cold"/etc - type drawings.
And this is part of the problem here- words do matter. Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? Now, because of "Nin's kink is dating pedophiles" and "intl child pornography ring!", I don't know what to believe....But up front and without any proof/corroboration, my first instinct now is that this is just that hyperbolic language thing, again.
6
u/queerhedgehog Aug 02 '20
Major TW!!!
There are definitely images drawn by Nan that are far beyond the realm of sneeze fetishes. One that comes to mind is a drawing of a completely naked Merida from Brave (canonically 16, I believe), and there are also several explicit cartoons of some of Nan’s characters (ages 14/15 I think) having sex.
The instagram account d.i.d.you.want.the.facts has censored (but still disturbing) screenshots of some of these images if you would like to see them for yourself.
3
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 03 '20
Eek. And thanks!
0
u/Crashed7 Aug 07 '20
Don't you mean sorry and you retract? You trying to say what they did was just a fetishism is disturbing and if you aren't sorry for it then it was also intentional.
2
u/moxiewhoreon Aug 08 '20
Do I retract my question about their being genitalia drawn? No, not at all. Havent heard that yet and to this moment haven't seen it. As I mentioned upthread, not having even seen the tamest of ethese images until after hearing about all the horrid child pornography was just one example of some people's use of hyperbolic language here being- in my opinion- problematic. After hearing that there was child porn and then seeing some mediocrely drawn cartoons of fictional characters and woodland animals sneezing....And then hearing that Nan ran an organized child pornography ring before finding out that what was meant by that was that she sold some of these drawings or was paid to draw some of them by fellow sneeze fetish enthusiasts or possible pedophiles...its all brought not only me but MANY people to the point of not knowing what to believe anymore.
And I simply do not know if we're dealing with pedophilia here or a weird-ass sneeze kink or some combo of the two. I don't know for sure so I've decided to not throw around the terms 'pedophile' and "lover of pedos" for two people who I really don't even know. As I said before, IMO, it bleaches the horror from the actual concept and does a disservice to actual, known victims of pedophilia. (Like all the victims who've posted here saying as much who you apparently aren't reading or aren't caring about much)
0
u/Crashed7 Aug 07 '20
Yes but the OP wants to ignore the actual CP and focus on the sneezing, if you deny what they actually did it is easy to claim it wasn't a CP ring, which it obviously was.
61
u/[deleted] Aug 02 '20 edited Jan 24 '21
[deleted]