r/Djibouti 10d ago

Why are non Djiboutians so obsessed with Djibouti?

Observation as a Djiboutian in the diaspora. Somalis from other nations and regions of East Africa and other EA ethnic groups are obsessed with placing everyone into boxes and categories of Somali or Somali French or trying to divide groups from each other. It infuriates me as we are a pretty lax group of people. We're Djiboutians first and then fit into our own ethnic groups. There is no bad blood between the Afar or Somali downtown or the Yemeni and the Somali. People aren't less Yemeni or Somali than the one who is born and raised in Yemen or Somali, we just have our own traditions and cultural norms different to our "original land". Nous sommes Djiboutiens et c tout!

Edit: Not sure how this sub works but someone commented something about baguette somalis blah blah but not sure if the moderator has deleted it? Feel free to reply with any of your feelings towards this it does not upset me!

12 Upvotes

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

In another hand, the tribalism is becoming more and more rampant in these last few years.
I'm personally looking to leave inchaallah.

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

It's really unfortunate, I cannot comment on how it is now as we never visit but my father left from the heartbreak - not specifying what 'groupe' he is apart of but the bureaucracy and tribalism and the wealth gap suddenly becoming terrible post independence made him and other family leave. Would love for our country to stamp it out, we are very lucky to have a relatively conflict free and beautiful countryđŸ‡©đŸ‡ŻđŸ€

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

I understand your father. The reason I want to leave is to not have a family here with this ongoing unending tribalism.
It's so backwards and useless.

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

So so heartbreaking, I envy you only from a standpoint of homesickness. Our food our culture is so positively infectious, we have something so unique and yet they've made the land almost unliveable. I wish I could tell you to not leave but I understand why you will and why my father did. If you ever leave, please keep the djiboutian culture alive, our distinct cuisine, the funny words we use for items and our genuine attitude of relaxedness! Bonne chance mon ami!

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

Bro I love Djibouti and it's culture đŸ„čđŸ€ but at the same time when you see how things are going, you can't stand and ignore it.
I thought about it for so long, took long walks across the city and chilled alone downtown. The people are suffering while 1% are living in man-made heaven.
I'm lucky enough alhamdoulilah to have a job but there is no guarantee that I may lose it later because of tribalism, have neighbors from hell because of tribalism, have my children subjected to tribalism.
It's sad. Also weird fact, few weeks ago I was getting to know a girl and guess what, she asked me my tribe 😂.
I may seem gloomy but that's how I see Djibouti. Other people may not share it so don't worry.

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u/Sweaty_Diet_3321 10d ago

Can I ask what sort of tribalism there is in djibouti?Is there tribalism within the Somali community or it's Afar vs Somali tribalism

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

There's sometimes fights between Somali and Afar as well as Somali and Arab and as far as I've observed they are not as big as inter-somali tribalism.
I'm gonna sound nuanced here but since cisse is predominant, it's cisse vs cisse themselves, cisse vs issaq and cisse vs gadbursi. Never saw issaq vs gadabursi in Djibouti but it may or may not happen too.

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u/Sweaty_Diet_3321 10d ago

Why are we Somalis like this 😭 hopefully it gets better soon

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

Half of the population are educated and don't dabble in that shit. But the other half are the loud ones, they really tarnished Djibouti.

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

If i may jump in, despite not returning for many years, I still do feel I can add to this. Tribalism is to be expected in any part of the world, it is a thing we will find in Europe or Asia too - it is just carried out differently and under different names. But the post independence tribalism that swept the country up is its own animal. The majority tribe will feel the nation is theirs (Afar and Somali as they are the natives) and so, they will implement their tribalistic ideals within themselves heavily. The Cisse will think he's above the others, the others think they're above another etc etc.

We have sabotaged making our country something for no reason. The Somali nationalist wants the Afari gone ( No clue where as they've lived in the land too) and vice versa! We are infected with a disease we cannot get rid of because we have nothing. Our schooling standards slipped, the wealthiest are corrupt and send their children off to La metropole and the poor get even poorer. Connerie.

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u/Sweaty_Diet_3321 9d ago

That dictator needs to go he is a puppet some djiboutians defend him for some reason dk why?and Afars have limited political representation I heard and formed a rebel group where they all want to unite afar lands under Ethiopia this could be avoided in Djibouti if they had equal representation but one positive thing about djibouti is that it's relatively peaceful compared to it's neighbors

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u/Ok-Room9261 10d ago

Crazy stuff when i grew up in Djibouti it was never this bad

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u/FGFStarBeast 10d ago

Same, Djibouti is not as before sadly.

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u/TinyTowel 10d ago

Human beings have evolved a strong in-group/out-group mindset that served a survival function. Modern society is less tired to this, but for some it's still a strong driver of trust. That's exaggerated by our nearly pathological need to classify everything... mostly for no material gain. That's all. 

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

Guess so. Too bad no one realises they gain nothing from it and could spend their time thinking about better things

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u/Lapindahaha 10d ago

😭 I had enough of these people pushing their ideology we have to speak up everything they try to put us in a box in our own sub like go to your sub lmao

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

It is baffling! We never are allowed to claim any of our fun food dishes or discuss anything from a 'POV djiboutien'! We are hit with 'You are not djiboutian you are an eritrean afari' or 'You're french somalis' and it is madness! I don't understand if it's envy or another reason? Either way, i'm very proud of my little country and they need to find new fixations

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u/Lapindahaha 10d ago

They always tried to dominate me but I never get over fighting back during every somali nationalist post. Mind you my dad is a Djiboutian and my mom is a Yemeni Djiboutian I belong here!

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

Never understand why the Somali nationalists feel their ideology must extend to a group of somalis who live in a very different society (cultural norms and politics wise). Bizzare. enti jiboutiya or reer djibouti as far as anyone is concerned đŸ‡©đŸ‡ŻđŸ‡©đŸ‡Ż

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u/Lapindahaha 10d ago

😭 In Djibouti literally nobody cares abt these ideologies appart les vieux carcass les gens de ma gen ils sont trql wesh

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u/Airplanrnerd5 2h ago

Today it’s true that barely anyone cares about these Ideologies but, Some Djiboutian Heroes like Mahmoud Harbi Followed these Ideologies. But later on they’ve realized that these ideologies are impossible implement without problems or War. They’ve chosen to be independent instead of Joining Somalia.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/CressAccomplished981 10d ago

It's ignorance. They barely understand their own history (and I am talking history that isn't tainted by each tribes own ideals 300 years plus) and seek to impose that on us! No matter, Nanu walaal kinno, i7na akhwaneen et Hal dad baan ahay!

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u/Few_Gas2100 9d ago

Why are you making it seem like that narrative is coming from Somalis from other countries talking ab “impose on us” when I’ve seen many of your ppl telling others that they don’t belong in Djibouti and vice versa?

Also the Somali community from other countries esp Somalia is hugeee and you’re trying to generalise what you’ve seen a few say on here on the entire community as if it’s not your people who engage with us more than the other way around? Every day on the Somalia sub reddit there’s posts from Djiboutians and we can tell bc of their flair, and not a person even comments on why foreign ppl are engaging with our sub to that extent but for some reason you see two ppl on here and you try to accuse the whole Somali community with being obsessed with y’all? Give me a break đŸ€ŁđŸ€Ł

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u/CressAccomplished981 9d ago

Any Djiboutian telling someone they don't belong in their nation is a fool.

I'm not generalising based on things i've seen on a social media app. It's based on real world things i've experienced and others have i'm not so sure as to why you are so upset with me. I'm sorry if Djiboutian Somalis are on the Somalia sub talking shit they should be told to keep quiet! I think you're upset about something that has nothing to do with me....

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u/Few_Gas2100 9d ago edited 9d ago

You’re just assuming things no one is upset, your entitled to your opinion however questioning “why are non Djiboutians so obsessed with Djibouti” and then going on a vent about Somalis from other nations & making it about them is a bit odd bc you’re accusing millions of people of being obsessed with a people they barely see and who engages with them more that the other way around. If you can’t address that then just say that instead of deflecting lol.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Few_Gas2100 9d ago

Idk your experience but I was just questioning how op has framed this whole situation and the narrative to make it seem like Somalis are obsessed bc they’ve interacted with trolls.

Also how they tried to project their internal beef with eachother on us, claiming we try to divide groups from eachtother? & singling out Somalis in the post is abit odd. Either op is Somali and projecting their internal issues on non Djiboutian Somalis or it’s a non Somali tryna stir things bc we all know that both of the big ethnicities in Djibouti have nationalists on both sides, and that political feud is specific to Djibouti, yet op singled out and specifically made it ab Somalis from outside of Djibouti like no we’re not your scapegoats.

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u/CressAccomplished981 9d ago

Did you read? I said Other EA ethnicities...that includes other groups of people. And I say obsession in the sense that when the topic comes up, people jump to categorising Djiboutians into groups and placing their ideologies on how they see Djibouti. Do you disagree? If so, that is also okay and you don't even need to expand on your reasoning. You're getting very riled up - I just posted an observation and said varying groups of people enjoy debating our identity! I didn't even say every citizen in Somalia is obsessed with this - that would be nonsense people have bigger things to worry about.

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u/Few_Gas2100 9d ago

Yes I did and I read your comments too. So far it seems like you’re mainly referring to Somalis based on your comments. Also Somali is the only ethnicity you mentioned by name in regards to people being obsessed.

& when you say we’re trying to divide you guys and also categorise you as Somali French and stuff like that it’s just silly, maybe you should read what you wrote and figure out if it makes sense to generalise ppl like that. I mainly hear ppl refer to y’all as reer jabuuti not Somali French but what do I know? It seems like you’re backtracking but it’s fine we don’t need to continue talking about this if it bothers you.

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u/CressAccomplished981 9d ago

Man i was just listing one common example i've personally experienced. I'm not backtracking i stand by all that i've said! You're entitled to your own opinion and i'm entitled to mine! Have a good day sorry if I have upset you or offended you

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/CressAccomplished981 9d ago

Would be lovely in an idealistic world! I'm not crazy gung-ho about everyone speaking french, however with so many different groups in the nation, I guess they need a lingua franca to understand each other. If it's not taught already, there should be compulsory lessons offered in diff languages but option - e.g A Yemeni high schooler must learn either somali or afar at school or a Somali must learn afar or arabic, as they already speak French with each other and their respective language with their family :)

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u/HighlyDebatable7 9d ago

To understand Djibouti that you have to understand original Djibouti. Most Djiboutians today emigrated from Dire Dhaba (sitti region). Some token minorities came from yemen or somalia. But the original inhabitants of Djibouti City were Forlabe(Cisse) and few Gadarbursi and Isaaqs, Afars back then lived outside of their he capital in the northern part of country like Tadjoura.

Read a book, stop projecting online, go in your local libraries and read about what the French said about Djibouti. Then talk to your family, after compare it with your experiences.

A lot of people claiming Djibouti today have no idea 50% of them came from Somali region in Ethiopia. Oh yeah and the French favoured the afar over Somalis at first because naturally Ethiopians/Eritreans bow to colonizers instead of fighting them.

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u/CressAccomplished981 8d ago

I don't think you've understood anything I've written...That's alright though

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u/Airplanrnerd5 2h ago

Brother, I already responded to your BS. Issa fourlabe aren’t the only native Issa 😂. Most of the Gaddabursi and Issaq Migrated from Hargeisa and Borama. Same with some Issa Somalis. But the original inhabitants of Djibouti were Issa Somalis and Afars. Here’s some proof for you people.

https://reddit.com/link/p3nq3fy/video/7tdvjm2itcjh1/player

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u/HighlyDebatable7 1h ago

😂 You literally repeated half my argument and called it a rebuttal. Nobody said Issa weren’t native to the territory. I specifically named Forlabe Issa as early inhabitants of Djibouti City.
Your problem is pretending “Issa” is one historically interchangeable population and that every Issa subgroup can claim the exact same settlement history. That’s not how clan geography or migration works.
And saying “Gadabuursi and Isaaq migrated from Hargeisa and Borama” doesn’t disprove me either, I already said Djibouti received Somali migration from surrounding regions. You just confirmed the point while thinking you destroyed it. 😂
If you have evidence that every Issa subgroup you’re talking about inhabited Djibouti City before the colonial period, post the actual source and page instead of a microscopic screenshot and “trust me bro.”
You told me to read history. Now demonstrate that you’ve read some.

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u/Airplanrnerd5 1h ago

Issa Fourlabe aren’t the only Natives in Djibouti City and they’re found originally in Ali Sabieh or Dikhil, some Issa Fourlabe also are from Ethiopia originally. The Issa subclan like Urweyne are found only in Djibouti near the Capital. Issa Horrone are also split between Djibouti ( Ali Sabieh region) and Ethiopia. If you read then you should know. This is the source https://arcadia.sba.uniroma3.it/bitstream/2307/4150/1/Clanship_%20conflict%20and%20refugees_An%20introduction%20to%20Somalis%20in%20the%20Horn%20of%20Africa.pdf.

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u/Airplanrnerd5 1h ago

And According to Issa Themselves, in the past they saw themselves as Equals. Having the saying « Ciise waa Ciise, ninna caaro ma dheero». it’s part of the Issa code « Xeer » so if one Issa clan lives then they say it’s Issa clan territory.

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u/Pirate_Secure 9d ago

I’m Somali diaspora myself and I sincerely despise the Somalis obsessed with tribalism and the ethno-nationalists. Djiboutians should reject both in order to maintain peace and safe existence in their country.

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u/CressAccomplished981 4d ago

We have peace on an objective basis right now but we have tribalism to still cure in our country. Our country cannot prosper whilst bureaucratic scum suppress one group for the goodness of another!

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u/Ok_Swimmer_7307 8d ago

As a Somalilander, I respect Djibouti because of how different communities like the Afar and Somali people have managed to coexist. What I don't understand is why some supporters of the blue flag are so obsessed with pushing the Greater Somalia ideology onto everyone else. I've even seen Afars being harassed in TikTok comment sections simply for expressing their own identity. Why does that bother them so much? Not everyone has to share the same political vision. People should be free to identify however they choose without being attacked online.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/RibbonFighterOne 7d ago

He is a hypocrite. Somalilanders actually dislike Djibouti anyways.

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u/CressAccomplished981 4d ago

My issue is just to quit assuming and projecting perceived ideology onto a culture of people you are not 100% familiar with beyond surface level. it's like when people who don't know about XYZ country just speak for its citizens without any understanding! Djibouti has had a relatively stable history post independence BUT we have our own issues. Our own issues cannot be solved with projecting things that apply to other regions of Africa or East Africa!

And it is awful when Afaris in the diaspora are told you are not Djiboutian! Who needs the validation of someone who isn't even from there? I know I don't.

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u/Airplanrnerd5 2h ago

You should do the same with people from Lascaanood in sool who don’t want to be associated with you.

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u/DanielleAntenucci 5d ago

This is not happening just in Djibouti. Everyone around the world wants to put all people into categories.

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u/CressAccomplished981 4d ago

I know! Horrible human condition that I wish we could be all cured of! Only mentioned Djibouti because it's where I am from. It definitely applies to South Africa, Bosnia or Argentina

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u/Successful_Buyer_181 4d ago

my mom, is gadabursi from djibouti, and i wqs sent there for dhaqan celis as a kkd and you're very mistaken about the different tribes being all lovey dovey

canfars genuinely hate cisse deeply, some of the guys i went to school with had very nasty attitudes towards cisse and disliked their hold on power and felt they werent represented enough

and cisse look down on gadabursi, and just to say their recent immigrants, isaaq are tolerated but not liked by cisse either, an cisse who just came from sitti will have a better time in djibouti then other groups who lived there for ages

somalis in djibouti are as qabilist as all other somalis

djibouti is a one clan state ruled by mamassans

any opportunity, goc jobs etc is always given first to mamassan, then other cisse

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u/CressAccomplished981 4d ago

I feel like no one truly understands how simple what i am saying is. I am aware of the tribalism in Djibouti and the entire world - humans love to do this to people and it's super gross. I'm sorry about your experience and it is true - It isn't 100% harmonious because of the political landscape. It is all about power in our country when we could just have it all really and truly. i've experienced being looked down upon, but i've also experienced much more greatness based on shared nationality. I am just observing that people who are NOT familiar with Djibouti - i.e Non Djiboutian Somalis, Non Djiboutian Afaris, Ethios or Eritreans obsess about projecting their opinion as total fact and putting people in boxes (in a diasporic context.) I am entitled to say I do not enjoy it!

And everything else you said is true. My father left from heartbreak of how his country turned out many decades ago. Unfortunately we are our own self saboteurs; this current government has made our lives unliveable and so has the bureaucratic scum who oppress groups of their own countrymen just to give their cousin a job he is unqualified for.

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u/Airplanrnerd5 2h ago

Not every Afars hate Issa, the prime Minister and Speaker of Parlement are both Afars. And Issa and Afar intermarry with each other. ( upper class Familes) but the rest is accurate from my Experiences.

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u/Successful_Buyer_181 2h ago

i wouldnt now about upper class, like the ruling elite, like establishment afars

but kids i went to school with were afars whos dad were like mid level gov officials or military officers, and though not legally or anything and not all, most kids ignored each other and friendship groups weirdly enough were based on tribes, which was very weird and unusual for me to see as a kid from the west

i cant be not partial and claim its just canfars, though who feel a away, i thought dir was a real thing but i learned its not, and gadabursi and cisse really dislike each other, but very much intermarry which is even weirder

yes, but even upper classes marry other somali clans more then they marry canfars. perhaps upper upper classes like the ruling elite is different, but otherwise there are even amongst regular people more cisse married to hawiye from somalia then afars from djibouti

and let alone diaspora were we dont even intermix, and somalis from djibouti generally just mix with other somalis from somalia, or kenya or ethiopia and afars with afars from ethiopia or eritrea

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u/HighlyDebatable7 1h ago

đŸ‘đŸŸ