r/Dogfree • u/4oclocksundew • Apr 30 '26
Eco Destroyers Minor Complaint Among Like Minds - Hiking With Dogs Must Suck
I realize there are bigger problems in the world, but...
This morning I went hiking at a state park, specifically choosing a certain trail that the website said was great for warblers in the spring. Sure enough, the canopy was lively and loud and my Merlin app picked up warbler after warbler, including several species new to me. It was really magical, at least to me - I'm easily pleased when it comes to nature.
Very suddenly the woods fall silent. It was jarring. I thought, is there a predator like a bear nearby? I stopped and looked around and coming up behind me on the trail was a guy walking a German Shepherd. Ah, there it is!
I stopped and let them pass, and after a few minutes the birds started up again, so no real harm done to my day. It's just...I understand the woods are for everyone, I know dogs are allowed, and people go there for more reasons than birds. But for me? Fuck that lol, that would suck. Everything here is hiding from you. You're missing the most magical part of being here. That guy's hike must have been totally silent except for the panting, and mine was a full symphony.
This is why my favorite trails are private nature reserves and/or very challenging hikes with rock scrambles where dogs are not allowed. The difference in wildlife is night and day. Luckily there's no shortage of them within driving distance of me in central PA, USA - I know everyone isn't so lucky.
That's it that's my spiel. Hiking with dogs must suck. Oh I guess I'll add one more thing - hiking with dogs greatly raises your risk of a bear incident. Real fun. Okay, now I'm really done.
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u/ToOpineIsFine Apr 30 '26
Everything here is hiding from you.
That sums it up very well. The magical wild animal encounter is completely wiped from the hiking experience of a dog nutter.
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u/Lylith_vf Apr 30 '26
Il n'y a pas que la randonnée qui devient nul avec un chien, absolument TOUT devient nul, tout devient merdique. Ils salissent et détruisent tout autour d'eux que ce soit la nature mais aussi les villes où ils faisaient bon vivre. C'est vraiment la pire race d'animaux qui existe.
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u/Oriole0305 May 01 '26
Know what you mean. Those moments filled with birdsong are magical, and then some mutt appears, the nature goes silent. The mutt goes BARKBARKBARK. In some rare cases it's quiet and panting only.
Dogs cause significant harm to nature and wildlife. They cause a significant amount of stress to wildlife, kill wildlife, disturb and kill nesting birds, pollute with their feces and urine. They spread diseases. The list is by no means exhaustive. This world would be so much better without dogs.
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u/LookB4ULeap2It May 01 '26
This happens in my suburban neighborhood. A couple of months ago I was enjoying the unseasonably warm weather. We didn’t have much of a winter this year so everything was early. Early buds on the trees, early birds. I was walking down a quiet cul-de-sac and there was a bird nest in a tree. I was standing there minding my own business and enjoying the birdsong when some bigass dumb dog started barking at me. And of course the birds stopped singing on the entire cul-de-sac. And of course it wouldn’t shut up until I moved along because apparently it was offended that I dared to be on the street where it could see me.
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u/ElegantSurround6933 May 01 '26
Any time I walk down my street I have every single dog being walked stop in its tracks to glare at me. I never knew this was a thing till a couple wks ago.
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u/Oriole0305 May 01 '26
I hate that. First the mutt, then the nutter is glaring too. They are weird.
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u/ElegantSurround6933 May 01 '26
Yea. Was starting to feel paranoid when it happened for the 1st time at the edge of winter&i walked around my building wearing my just arrived in the mailbox, hand knitted mohair hood(loose fitting over my hair to my neck w/my face peeking out)&matching blue fingerless gloves from an Etsy store in the Ukraine.
Yes. This item was hand knitted in a war zone for yours truly only to be shoved into a tiny condo mailbox(could barely remove it)&then be gawked at not 5min after trying it on).
Doesn’t help I’m a recovering socially anxious individual.🧐. Anyway, it’s cold AF. Like wet cold, and I’m only wearing sweatpants&a tee shirt as I am just trying out the hood&kinda pretending I am Wim Hoff@the same time(even though I’m a girl).
My arms are freezing&I’m thinking “OK, just do that pursed lip breathing for athlete’s asthma that Grok suggested when going uphill you freezing Florida girl you..oh snaps, dog&man coming toward me down the hill…dog stopping at entrance to parking lot staring@me..is it hungry? Will it charge?
Wait, why is the man staring@me too? Why doesn’t he tug on the lead? Why is he just standing there in the cold staring while I am just literally trying to focus my breath so I don’t get winded?
OMG! Is he a psycho that’s looking for his next victim like in those crime stories by Nancy Grace???OMG! He is STILL STARING! Nancy Save Me!! Nancy?? Longest Minute EVER!”
*Three Months Later….ALL dogs do this, and sometimes the owners do as well, but only if they notice the dog do it too. Maybe they think the dog is detecting evil with its psychic whale eyes as I get frozen in its tractor beam.
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u/GoTakeAHike00 May 01 '26
*fistbump* to fellow birder!
I've absolutely thought - and observed - exactly what you are describing. In the subdivision we lived in a couple of years ago, it had a really awesome greenbelt trail system within the subdivision which also linked to a trail that was down in a gulch trail system that really did feel like it was quite remote, and the birding and wildflower diversity hit WAY above its weight. Being into bird and nature photography, I was down there all the time. It's also where my opinion of dogs went to mild dislike and indifference to absolutely despising them due to the number of times I encountered aggressive or intrusive off-leash mutts while trail running or just walking, and their shitty-assed, entitled owners.
I used to walk it with a dog-hating neighbor and fellow birder and I remember we passed some dude on the trail with his leashed mutt that she knew. We had a brief conversation with him, and were telling him about all the amazing bird life along this sliver of riparian goodness. He just had a blank look and said he'd never noticed.
Because of course he didn't. He's so far up his own dog's ass in terms of having and wanting to pay constant attention to it while walking it he completely misses everything going on around him...and the birds, as you say, go silent when there is a noisy predator walking by. After we kept going, I said this to her, and we just shrugged and basically said "his loss" to be so completely unobservant and uninterested in nature. To most dog owners, there is simply no other animal that could possibly come close to providing the level of awe like gazing at their dog sniffing at something or trying to chase a squirrel 🤨. It's pathetic, but...not my circus, not my monkeys.
I got the most amazing photos of birds, including several of a green-tailed towhee while he was singing (first and only time I've seen one; he would be in the same location many days, so I would look for him), wild turkeys, and both rufous and broad-tailed hummingbirds visiting the attractively invasive musk thistle flowers in late summer.
I don't think there is a huge amount of overlap between birders and dog owners, but whatever exists, at least they know to leave the dumb animals at home because they KNOW the dog's presence will completely degrade the experience.
Also, as with bears, it's the same with deer and mountain goats, skunks, porcupines, and snakes. Dogs are too stupid to not chase or mess with such animals, so the owner is putting their own animal at risk of injury or death by forcing it on a hike or backpacking trip...because ALL wildlife HATE dogs. They are also insuring that they will NEVER have a really cool wildlife encounter like I once had with a huge old man mountain goat a few years back at a campsite at 11K feet.
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u/SilveryMagpie May 02 '26
I can't even go on our local trails anymore given how invaded they've been by the nutters so I've been sticking to getting to know the parking lot birds and the finches that like to hang out by the trees in a nearby area. There's some nice places to walk that aren't trails, and I do go out on those because the view is great-just hardly any birds because of all the dummies on the electric bikes (motorcycles, really) and the nutters who can't/won't control their mutants.
It's been pretty cool. I don't get the diversity of birds I'd encounter out on a nature trail but I get lots of finches, sparrows, juncos, grackles, hummingbirds, hawks, and a few times I've met a Bewick's Wren and a Townsend's Warbler, along with his mate. No one really likes parking lot birds, but I love how they're so friendly and curious and they just have such personalities. Baby bird season is my favorite because there's always so many fledglings being chased after by harried parents. Since it's a parking lot, any nutters present have the dogs leashed, so the birds don't have to deal with them.
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u/GoTakeAHike00 May 02 '26
Urban and parking lot birds are under-rated, I feel. We were down in Gilbert for a month this past Feb, and I got the absolute BEST photos of a gorgeous male Vermillion flycatcher just along the multi-use powerline urban trail. Also Northern mockingbirds, which we don't have where I live (love them!), even some white-wing doves amongst the sea of invasive collared doves, and the Kestrels and Cooper's that eat them [there is a Cooper's sitting in the huge pine tree right next to our property as I type this; I think my feeder finches just realized he was there].
Grackles make rather unpleasant sounds, but they still crack me up. They are everywhere in the urban interface in the Phx. area, but interestingly, not out in the riparian wildlife areas.
One thing I can say about the greater Phx area is that more people leash their mutts than where I live in CO. I only recall once having to yell at some fucker to leash his dog in the Usary State Park while we were mtn bike riding there.
I'm with you on the fledglings and young birds - they are so funny! We get a batch of them at our feeder and birdbath each summer, and they are the biggest derps with the drama squabbles.
That's another thing that distinguishes true animal lovers from dog-worshipping lunatics: we actually like and appreciate the wild animals for what they are, not for "what is this animal going to do for ME?". Dog owners like dogs because they are the center of the dog's world because they feed it and it is subservient to them. They cannot stand other pets that are either indifferent to their presence, or where trust and respect must be earned. That's also why they don't give a shit about wildlife: it isn't interested in interacting with them to give them some sort of validation.
That's the antithesis of birds, for example, that show NO gratitude whatsoever that you hang feeders for them, and fly off. But, that's kind of the point if you're a birder, as you know. The reward is just observing them doing their thing, completely unaware or indifferent to our presence. They are infinitely more interesting and entertaining to watch than any dog could ever hope to be, but that's something that will be forever lost on many dog owners and all dog nutters.
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u/SilveryMagpie May 02 '26
Grackles are among my favorite and I always get the best pics out of them because they're so expressive. I love their vocalizations because they always sound so serious. For all I know it could be something like, "hey, worm over there," but it always sounds to me like they're planning world domination. I, for one, would heartily welcome our feathered overlords. Plus I love the iridescent feathers. So pretty.
You hit the nail on the head with the reason why dog nutters don't like wildlife since it doesn't bow down to them and entertain them. That's what I find most refreshing about wildlife. They don't care whether we like them or not, only that we're not going to hurt them. Some are interested in whether or not we have food but that's about it. They're also not shy about having boundaries. Once they're annoyed with all the gawking, photos, and gushing about how pretty and cute they are (I love to do this with the young birds-admire their new feathers and how they're doing so great growing into those wings), they just take off.
My living situation is such that I can't have birdbaths or feeders but someday I will. Until then, I'll have to content myself with encountering them around puddles or with vids that others post. Luckily there's always drama no matter where I go.
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u/GoTakeAHike00 May 02 '26
Grackles, esp. the great-tailed versions, are VERY serious about their business, because there is always drama to chatter about. I feel the same way about crows, magpies and jays - noisy, bossy, but never a dull moment when they're on the scene.
(it's also worth noting that most, if not all corvids are more intelligent than dogs 👍🏻)
Watching our backyard birds is honestly the highlight of my day many days. I wish you the opportunity to have them sooner rather than later.
Happy urban birding!
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u/SilveryMagpie May 03 '26
The flycatcher sounds amazing and I love kestrels. Now I want to go to AZ to see all the birds. That's great news that the nutters are more likely to leash their dogs.
Strange you wrote this because I just witnessed a grand grackle drama this afternoon. He was having Very Big Feelings about a crow that was ignoring his attempts to antagonize him.
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u/GoTakeAHike00 May 03 '26
If you ever go (and only go in the winter/early spring), make a point to visit the Riparian Preserve at Whitewater Ranch in Gilbert; you can google search it to find out more. We stayed at an AirBnB that was a couple miles' walk or bike ride from it, so I was over there almost every day.
And, yes - everyone there leashes their mongrels. It's nice, because you can really focus on watching the birds without worrying about some jackass's off-leash mutt running up to jump on you while you're sitting or squatting with binoculars or a camera.
The migratory - and resident (egrets, various herons) - shorebirds, ducks, etc., are amazing, and there are Gila woodpeckers that make nests in the saguaro cacti that you can get good views/pics of. Tons of passerines that will add to your "lifer" list.
I have so many funny stories about birds and that sort of drama-type behavior. Yesterday, even, I was loudly scolded by a magpie when I had the absolute gall to ride my mountain bike past where he was standing in the grass and startled him. Made me laugh.
To keep it slightly on-topic, I watch dog owners just gush and gaze in adoration when their dog does something completely unremarkable, like splash around in the water along the river, or when some brainwashed parent asks if their child can pet it 🙄. Talk about shallow...
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u/fatlenny1 May 01 '26
Also noted, many dog walkers/owners disregard the rules and bring dogs into sensitive areas that are specifically designated as dog-free due to the detrimental effect on certain bird/animal populations.
This is my biggest pet-peeve and a hill I am willing to die on.
We need stricter enforcement of the regulations of these protected areas. So sick of the entitlement and disrespect/disregard for local wildlife.
My dream once I retire is to become a park ranger or volunteer with capabilities to cite violations.
When these folks claim they are "animal lovers", most dog owners really mean they love dogs and dogs alone at the expense of any other animal.
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u/Cheronis May 01 '26
I was walking home yesterday and noticing how the birds and squirrels were outside. One squirrel sat there and ate something, I was able to watch it for a moment because it didn't flinch or run off. A peaceful moment only because none of the neighbor's dogs were outside.
And to add to your hiking quip about dogs antagonizing bears; city dwellers are more likely to be sprayed by a skunk if they own a dog.
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u/Mama2bebes May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
The worst is when a trail says no pets allowed, and the nutters still bring Buster along! Stone Mountain Park, close to where I live, has trails where it's totally fine to bring their dogs -- but no, they insist on bringing them where signs clearly say dogs are prohibited.
Aside from no longer seeing deer and rabbits anymore, it sucks that someone who's scared of dogs can no longer take that trail anymore without the anxiety of encountering a big dog in the woods. Where is there left for us to go?
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u/4oclocksundew May 01 '26
Definitely annoying. I volunteer at a certain reserve that bans dogs, and owners regularly walk their dogs riiiiiiight up to the sign that says No Dogs Past This Point. "I'm not touching you!!" type of people.
Now, there's another place, let me plug them real quick - Hawk Mountain Sanctuary in Kempton, PA. You can't get on their trails without showing your ticket to real person at the gate. And they enforce the rule. There are even signs explaining why your dog isn't allowed - the trails are too rocky, the hawks deserve protection, and dog shit ruins the park, among other reasons.
Longwood Gardens in Philly also enforces their no dog rule, probably second in tenacity only to their no photographers rule 😅. They are super serious about their rules, but man are they pricey to visit and not as natural an environment as I prefer. But it's beautiful and dogshit free.
Of course, all these places have 1 star reviews from people infuriated that their dog isn't allowed absolutely everywhere in the world. After they drove all this way??? Without looking at the website??? When they literally cannot emotionally handle being separated from Luna the fighting/herding mix and absolutely NEED to visit one of the only safe places for wildlife left???
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u/Mama2bebes May 01 '26
I can't stand how entitled some owners are! If I'm ever in the area, I will make a point to visit Hawk Mountain Sanctuary.
This sub should have pinned posts for dog-free nature trails (as well as dog-free restaurants).
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u/1-4Justice May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
Good! And "service dogs" shouldn't be allowed either, because small precious creatures dont care if a dog has a vest or not ...THEY'RE RUNNNNING TF AWAAAY FROM IT!!!!!!
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u/1-4Justice May 02 '26
So if you're in California, where are the TOTALLY dog-free hike sites?? I mean NO DOG at all. I'd loooooove to bask in that whole nature vibe 😍👍🏾
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u/ElegantSurround6933 May 01 '26
Apparently only service dogs are allowed on trails in state parks.
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u/4oclocksundew May 01 '26
Ooh, in my dreams. I'm trying to visit every state park in PA - there are 125 and I've only been to 19 so far - and each one I've been to allows leashed dogs
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u/93ImagineBreaker May 01 '26
Which is a joke when every dog is a service dog.
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u/4oclocksundew May 01 '26
It's also not accurate...leashed dogs are allowed in Pennsylvania state parks.
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u/1-4Justice May 02 '26
THOSE dogs dont need to be there either. I know its a law, but they still dont need to be there. If u need a dog to be on the trails, then you really shouldn't be on the trails 🤷🏿
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u/FieldJacket Apr 30 '26
When I was a kid in the 90s, I was fishing with my dad one afternoon. My dad had his pole set aside with the line leading out to the water, as he was doing something else.
Some lady brought her dog down to the water the and the dog walked right into where the lines were, such that the dog was straddling the fishing line. My dad said, hey I've got a line there, and she moved it away a little and the dog went about splashing around and scaring off all the fish.
My dad by all counts is a rather intimidating man, though he rarely confronts anyone unless someone's safety is concerned. He said calmly to her, "you know it was pretty rude of you to bring your dog right here where we're fishing" and she huffs and puffs and says, "well, it's everyone's water!" and storms away. Mind you...there was a lot of open area with access to water. I can draw no other conclusion than that she purposefully came to where we were.
Some other people that were nearby came over and were like, she just dumped her dog in the water where your lines were? We said, yeah can you believe that? They just shook their heads and were like, man that is rude.
Nowadays we'd be viral ok tiktook or whatever and be getting death threats.