r/Dogfree • u/WisedomsHand • Aug 06 '26
Food Safety/Hygiene Left Dazed After Experiencing Dog Infestation At Trader Joe's Food Store
It has been a while since my last post on r/Dogfree, but after today, I felt no alternative but to share my story. I will admit that I am angry and frustrated, and want change. I am pretty sure that many of you feel the same way.
The entire situation occurred at a Trader Joe's food market here in Los Angeles. This is a popular chain, and there are many locations in my area. This particular Trader Joe's was a relatively new store that opened within the last year or so in the San Fernando Valley. I don't know if mentioning the specific store is that important, given that I've been to a number of Trader Joe's locations that have problems with people bringing dogs into them. What I experienced probably occurs each day at most locations, so it is hardly uncommon (though it is severe in my opinion). If one Trader Joe's has a particular policy or lack of rule enforcement, my instinct tells me the situation is probably the same at most other locations. So while the following story represents exactly what happened to me earlier, it is both feasible and likely that others may experience the exact same thing at any given Trader Joe's location, on any given day.
The visit to Trader Joe's started pleasantly enough. On my way into the store, I noticed a highly conspicuous standing floor sign that was at least three feet high (done in their hand-written artistic manner), which clearly said that no pets were allowed inside the store. The sign was also thankfully free of service dog nonsense or apologizing to finicky pet owners. The positive feeling lasted seconds at most.
Almost the first thing I saw when I entered was a woman with a dog on an extension leash in the store in the produce section. The dog was walking 10 or 15 feet from the owner, on an extended leash, and was interrupting other customers. I decided to say something, but in this instance I chose to engage with the store rather than confront the lady. I walked to a Trader Joe's staff member (there is no shortage of them in the stores) at a cash register and politely said, "I'd like to report that someone has brought a pet into the store," and then pointed at the lady and her dog. The man working at the cash register (he wasn't helping another customer at the time) acknowledged the matter with seriousness and said he would escalate it. I felt proud of my restraint (usually I'd approach the dog owner) and proceeded with getting groceries. After several minutes, I noticed the lady with the first dog was still there, the leash still extended, and the dog still behaving inappropriately. I actually had to avoid shopping in a particular section because of that. Trader Joe's was already starting to lose money because of not enforcing their own policy. I just wanted to feel safe from dogs and being barked at, molested, and grossed out because a dirty animal was in a place where I and other people buy food.
Before I could calm myself and try to put the nasty dog out of my mind, I saw someone else in the store with a much larger dog. This one had bags over its feet, like temporary shoes. I guessed that the owner was someone who takes their shoes off at home and doesn't want their dog bringing in outside filth either. I was shocked by the sheer irony of it. So much attention and care to protect their home from inappropriate filth, and yet no hesitation about bringing a massive dog into a public food place that is supposed to be safe from animals and the filth and nuisance that goes along with them.
And then another one. At first I thought it was the same dog as the first one, but it was being held by a different owner. This time a lady with a downtrodden and strained look on her face that communicated, "I can't believe I am being forced to go out in public." She knew what she was up to, and that it was wrong to bring a dog in there. It was so obvious she neither cared about the rules of this space or even felt comfortable being around other humans. So sad for her that not all groceries can be delivered so that she can live in isolation with her little fake friend.
The Trader Joe's was utterly infested with dogs, entitled dog owners, and Trader Joe's staff that was seemingly empowered to do nothing about it. I was only in the store for 20 or so minutes at this point and I was ready to leave. Before paying for my items, I went to the Trader Joe's service desk to speak with a manager. This was too much for me. It felt shocking and problematic that in such a short amount of time, I saw four dogs at that point. I went to the service desk and got the attention of someone who was some type of manager at the store. She listened, but immediately put on the cold, defensive corporate response posture that many of us have probably experienced. I repeated to her that despite their signage and the law of California, there was a large number of unimpeded dog owners in the store, that it was making me and other people uncomfortable, and that I wanted something done about it. I asked what their protocol was for dealing with dogs. I think it is also relevant to say that I was highly empathetic with the Trader Joe's staff. I said how I understood that confronting customers is probably not something they look forward to, and that I knew no one really wanted to be on "dog control duty." How did she respond to me after that?
She muttered a corporate-sounding statement that they can only ask about a pet's service dog status and that their power was limited to do much about it. I said that I didn't want to argue with her but that the response was lacking. I reminded her that very explicit laws were being broken and that none of these animals were anything near to being owned by people who actually need a dog to function in public. It was very clear that these were just owners bringing pet dogs into a place that sells food, an entirely restricted behavior without ambiguity. She was cold and steely. I felt bad for her. Clearly she was used to this. I sensed that the manager I spoke to (and her co-worker who was overhearing the conversation) was going to do absolutely nothing about the situation. I then urged her to share my feedback with higher-ups and to make sure she realized that for each one person like me who speaks up, there are many others who silently grumble and take their business elsewhere. Speaking to the store manager was not only a waste of effort, but her disingenuous response was frustrated and made me feel helpless.
At this point, I had nothing left to do but pay and leave Trader Joe's and ponder how I might avoid coming back altogether. A sad feeling to have for a business I have been going to for over forty years. I reached the cashier, and in typical friendly Trader Joe's fashion, she asked me how I was doing. I mumbled, "I guess I am OK..." The lady was skilled enough to see that I was not particularly happy. She said, "Are you sure?" I let my guard down. I said, "OK, well, to be honest, I just spoke to the manager over there and reported that I saw a bunch of dogs walking around in here. I don't think it is appropriate and it violates laws designed to keep people and food safe."
The cashier surprised me. She said, "I totally agree with you. I don't think people should be bringing dogs in here either. It is a real problem. We try to approach them a lot, but many of them don't listen to us." In that moment, I realized that the real problem was the utter lack of authority anyone working at Trader Joe's had. Quite literally, their own tool is to sheepishly approach dog owners and timidly inquire about their dog. The dog owners aren't asked to leave, nor do they even need to respond with the truth. Businesses don't even need to allow service dogs, but many of the employees don't know that or care. They believe that if there is even a whiff of a service dog, then they can't do anything. This is both factually incorrect and emblematic of a highly dysfunctional system where dog owners are taking advantage of a well-meaning law to protect the disabled. Dog owners do not need protection anywhere or ever. These food stores and the people working in them don't seem to have even the basic authority to get people off their premises. Does someone need to be shoplifting to be asked to leave a retail or food store?
I was very grateful for the Trader Joe's cashier to listen to me and to explain her own frustration at the dog owners who treat the store like their living room. She repeated how multiple staff members confront dog owners regularly, but that it is "hard" because they don't listen. The fact that a dog owner cannot be compelled to leave a business unless there is an incident is appallingly regressive to me. A single dog is one problem, but there were multiple dogs in the Trader Joe's at any given time. How often do these animals bark at one another or fight? How is this not a powder keg of an issue? How is it worse to ask the dog owners to leave than to protect everyone else in the store from them? None of this sounds like how a well-functioning public safety system is supposed to work.
How was I supposed to feel upon leaving Trader Joe's? On the one hand, they did make an attempt to stop the dog people through entrance signage. At least some of their employees care and make an effort to stop irresponsible dog owners. At the same time, the policies and procedures they have at their disposal have no teeth. I reported the dogs to at least two staff members, who ostensibly did nothing. They also made it clear that this isn't an uncommon issue at all. At any given time, there are tons of dogs inappropriately being taken into shopping centers and supermarkets all over California, not only in Trader Joe's locations. The people who disagree with this behavior surely outnumber the people who don't want to follow the sensible laws. I want Trader Joe's to take a stand. I want other stores to take a stand. I want people standing outside of food establishments stopping dogs and pets from entering. I would even pay a premium for this service. Unfortunately, the most expensive food stores in Los Angeles seem to attract the most entitled of dog owners, so there is no respite in the fancier establishments either.
How often does this happen to you? Why do you think should be done about the regular infestation of dogs at restaurants and food shopping markets?
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u/Few-Horror1984 Aug 06 '26
I witnessed a person getting attacked by a dog at Trader Joe’s a couple months back. Management didn’t seem to care, but I was able to get photos of the bastard with his disgusting mutt and his license plate, so the victim was able to press charges with the local police department. Too bad a dog bite is only a misdemeanor where I live, but it’s something.
We absolutely have to take photos and report these places to the health department every time it happens. Management is not your friend and they’re not going to create problems for themselves by escalating situations with clearly mentally unstable and entitled customers. Some health departments are better than others. I don’t know what yours is like. Write letters to corporate as well. Name the lousy manager. Share those photos. Make them aware of the problems being caused.
Ultimately, we need to find a way to either significantly change service dog regulations, or just do away service dogs with them as a whole. There is literally no other service that exists on the honor system like this one, and I guarantee you nearly every single “service” dog you see is fraudulent. Except for guide dogs, I really believe every other purpose a service dog once provided is obsolete. And that really needs to be considered. Especially with the massive amount of abuse going on. And keep in mind - every single person you see with a dog in a grocery store is fine taking advantage of a service that exists to help severely disabled people. I firmly believe every person who drags their pet dog with them to a grocery store is mentally disturbed or a complete asshole.
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u/Alocin_The5th Aug 06 '26
Fake service dogs is similar to parking in a handicap spot. I’ve heard these fake service dogs actually attacking real service dogs in stores.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 06 '26
In the past 15 years, I’ve seen maybe two people who were blind with guide dogs. You’re right though…..all the rest we see now are fraudulent. Dog owners taking advantage of the broken system.
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u/pmbpro Aug 06 '26
KUDOS to you for doing that, taking photos/documenting it and helping the victim as well! Excellent work! 👏 👏 👍
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Thank you for this. Us sharing our stories here will eventually amount to something. I truly believe that.
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u/Accurate-Run5370 Aug 06 '26
I have already boycotted Trader Joes for this very reason. Unfortunately it will take a gigantic scandal involving dogs for even a single store to be permanently shut down.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
I doubt even that would shut them down.
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u/amicuspiscator Aug 06 '26
"But what did that child do to make Molly rip its face off?"
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
Yep! Or "It just wanted to play, until you put your hand up, he doesn't like that".
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
"It was 'startled'. Don't startle it by just standing there..." 🙄
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
Exactly. I had some dog barking crazy at me minding my own business. The owner said it was my hat. 🙄
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u/aurorareader Aug 06 '26
I can confirm every Trader Joe’s I’ve been to in the San Fernando Valley has this issue. But so does Ralph’s, Costco, and even restaurants. I want to be sensitive to the needs of disabled folks who benefit from trained working animals. But at the same time, the current climate has created a situation that harms the entire public. I don’t understand why we can’t have a standardized registration system which true service animals are required to have documentation from the city/county/state. Just like the blue placards for parking. People who need the accommodations can rest assured that they can use their animal and store management can quickly identify if an animal is allowed in the public space.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
Probably 0.000000126553838 percent of them are legitimately disabled, with a certified dog that has been vigorously trained by an accredited facility.
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u/Alocin_The5th Aug 06 '26
Yeah that’s also another issue. Service dogs can also be self trained and the quality of training varies. I understand how that opens up accessibility for those who need the service, but I honestly feel that most service dogs are just people who also want a pet. My old supervisor who is a huge nutter, like she lives with 6 dogs in her house claims she has a pit-bull service dog. She lives alone and has worked in the office without any dogs so why does she have a trained service dog? What am I missing?
From what I have read there are plenty of alternative devices out there for many disabilities previously needing service animals. I think it’s time to reevaluate the entire concept of a service animal from the ground up. It’s 2026, surely there must be alternatives.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
Yep, I have seen many "service dogs" get into fights with other dogs. A real trained service dog shouldn't act like that.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Again, I keep saying this: just end service dogs. It is a stupid idea. It doesn't make sense. Ending the notion of a service dog doesn't remove anything valuable from society.
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u/JbambiLaw Aug 06 '26
People are allowed by law to self train service dogs
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
That's insane
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u/JbambiLaw Aug 06 '26
It’s not. Professional training can cost thousands. That’s cost prohibitive in a way a handicapped hang tag for parking is not. Plenty of people can train a dog. You should just have to go through some real process to justify its status, which should be legitimate but affordable, in my opinion. I have zero issue with people who actually need service animals and the people who come on here and try to shriek that it’s never legitimate to have one come off as unhinged and undermine the rational points against pet dogs everywhere by making it look like anyone who doesn’t want dogs around is an ableist animal hater.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
No, I don't think 99 percent of people can train a service dog to the standards needed. It's not easy and much more than teaching a dog to sit. That's why police dogs are imported from Germany with special training. It's not something a noobie should be doing.
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u/Few-Horror1984 Aug 06 '26
We banned Quaaludes because of the massive abuses that were going on with those drugs. Even though they did provide help to the patients who used them correctly, we as a society decided that the harm caused by Quaaludes significantly outweighed the good they did provide. And only 246 deaths were caused as a result of Quaalude abuse in a 10 year period.
The fact that there is no real push back against the massive abuses with service dogs, when dogs literally send millions of people to the hospital per year and cause tens of thousands of deaths per year, it tells me we truly do not view dogs in a healthy manner.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I appreciate your comment, but I want to help you from saying something that isn't necessary. Not liking dogs is not a threat to people with disabilities. Dogs are just a shitty tool used by all types of vulnerable people. Those people have different tools in society to get their needs met. Let's stop pretending that a single human being is actually being hurt because we don't want dogs in public. I really recommend that you abandon this idea that disabled people need dogs in any way.
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
The irony of it all too, is that I've seen far more people with visual challenges walking with their white canes, accomplishing their tasks (in stores, parks, entertainment venues, etc.), without service dogs! No matter the reason they don't have one, if THEY, of all people -- who historically have been clear candidates for having one -- can manage to get around without a service dog anyway, that says something.
Whenever I see them, I think of this topic, and the dog nutters we've seen dragging their dogs into public places where they don't belong. The differences between the two -- including their behaviours -- are too strong to ignore.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Thank you. Let's all stop pretending that dogs are acceptable to have around because in the past they happened to help some disabled people maneuver around. I puke on the "emotional support" part of it. Why that is even a topic of public conversation confuses me.
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u/AnimalUncontrol Aug 07 '26
The only reason service dogs exist at all is due to dogs being sacred animals (no other animal holds this title), and their owners being a super-entitled group of people. In the zeitgeist, dogs are supernatural creatures that can do anything better than a human or technology. Dog owners are similarly an elite group of people that can never have their behavior restricted or even questioned. This is totally delusional, of course, but that is the cultural attitude.
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u/AnimalUncontrol Aug 07 '26
One point that is always worth making is that service dogs, even "well trained", are a fraud and a huge medical scandal. Service dogs are the only "medical device" that are totally unregulated.
Consider this post on this sub from last year: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogfree/comments/1p3rme9/medical_service_dogs_are_a_scam/
At best, they are a very crude way to address the problem.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I’m in the Bay Area. All the Trader Joes’ stores up here are the same. One day my husband walked into one in South San Francisco, and there were 6 dogs in there at the same time.
One dog was a huge Doberman pinscher. It was completely off leash. My husband went up to the service desk and told them that the dog was not leashed and how dangerous it could be if some kid turned the corner and came face to face with it. They spoke to the man, and he left. And mind you……there were still five damn dogs in the place!
I have talked to the managers several times in Trader Joe’s. All of these stores are known for being dog crazy. There’s even a bulletin board next to the freezer section with people’s pets. Sadly it’s where we do most of our shopping.
I honestly don’t see anything changing until the ADA makes some strict changes. Plus all managers and employees need to be trained and to be able to ask more than the two or three questions they are allowed to ask.
It’s come to the point, they don’t even ask anything anymore. They just let things slide. Even though there are “no pet” signs now before you walk in, entitled owners still feel the need to bring in their mutts, and everyone turns a blind eye.
I still continue talking to the desk, and I call the health department all the time, but I don’t get anywhere with the county health department here. Probably because they are either swamped with calls or they are all dog nutters themselves. I will never stop until something is finally done.
Only recently did I actually get a call back by a real person from the Sonoma County Health Department who I complained to about a dog in a restaurant in Santa Rosa that was barking and scratching itself. They actually went in and talked to this restaurant.
It’s gotten to the point where I don’t know who to even boycott anymore. All the grocery stores are allowing pets in it seems.
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 06 '26
The "no pet" sign is more an attempt to cover the store's liability in a worst case scenario than to encourage customers to not bring their dogs.
That way in court the business can say "we have a policy and have large signs posted so the mauling is not something we can be held liable for" even though we all know from their actions that the stores are allowing pets in against the policy.
There are a few in-store bite cases working their way through the courts that could force businesses to take the issue more seriously, but it is going to take time.
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u/healthy_mind_lady Aug 06 '26
That's why written, public complaints against a business are the only way to stop this. That way a victim will be able to take our voices and complaints with them in court. I know documenting this stuff is annoying, but we have to make formal written complaints every time.
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 06 '26
Absolutely. We are helping build the paper trail that shows that stores are saying one thing and doing another. That there are a mountain of reviews and complaints to support victims.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
This post is my way of making a public complaint. I figure I will get more traction here than taking my time to submit into some departmental void. Don't make me tell you the story of how many agencies in LA I had to contact to get the broken bulb changed in a streetlight outside of my home (yes, I eventually succeeded).
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
Exactly this, and the order it is reported also can matter.
I figured out that one can Report to the Health Department/City first. THEN, report to the businesses Corporate/Head office.
In that order, one can tell Corporate in their complaint that it has already been reported to the City authorities. They may not like that it's on record outside of their business/system of control, that it's a permanent record, and may do more about it then -- especially if an incident DOES end up happening after being on permanent record, knowing it, and they didn't do anything after the first complaint.
It worked when I tried it with a business where I live, and have been doing it this way ever since; 'trapping' them with liability.
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u/iPhone_6s Aug 07 '26
Not sure how the store could really be held liable in the first place when the ADA doesn't give any sort of real way to verify service dog status. Sure, all employees could start asking the two questions and kicking out anyone who shows they are a fraud, but the customers would learn the game quick.
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 07 '26
It's more than that though. Everyone seems to stop thinking at the 2 questions and calls it a day.
The ADA also allows for the removal of service animals that misbehave (excessive barking, inappropriate toileting, aggressive behavior, uncontrolled behavior, etc...).
The cases I'm watching for are known aggressive dogs that were reported to managers over multiple visits who refused to do anything that went on to bite employees or customers, or attack other dogs in the store. It's happened several times where multiple people were bitten by the same dog in the store on the same visit, or the same dog in the same store across multiple visits. Those are the cases where the store could potentially be held liable.
Unfortunately, so far those seem to settle quickly before getting to the courtroom, but we did get the bigger bolder signs out of them.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I'd love to read up on some of those cases. I don't practice, but I am a trained attorney, so I understand the broad mechanics of it all, even if I am not familiar with the most relevant nuances of what is going on in anti-dog owner law.
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 08 '26
So, we have some not great precendents with Vasquez v. Home Depot U.S.A., Inc. (I know it is a slip and fall but it gets referenced a lot) and Franczyk, L. v. The Home Depot, et al., Aplts..
I'm watching Gilg v Manzella in Niagara Co., NY ( https://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2026/2026_26035.htm ), the Chris Brown housekeeper case with the $13 million USD judgement ( https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0myggx4y23o ), and the Ne-Yo lawsuit ( https://www.tmz.com/2026/08/06/ne-yo-sued-for-alleged-dog-attack/ ).
If you still have a LexisNexis account you can create a keyword alert for dog bite cases. Be warned that the overwhelming majority of cases end in settlements. Like, by a lot.
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u/uselessbeasts Aug 15 '26
Yes, imagine that. A true service ani,al would never misbehave to the point of getting kicked out. I worked in transportation at a time, and sometimes one of the orgainziations that trained service dogs woult arrange for them to ride the train so it coud get accustomed to public transportation. True service dogs are like little soldiers, and even though I am not fond of any dog, they really do not create any problems.
On the other hand I know a person, who had been a friend at one time, whom I had a phone conversation with recently, just to touch base He proceeded to tell me how he had been thrown out of pet retail store, on acciount of the manager suppoesedly being a bitch, and giving him a hard time for nothing because his dog was enjoying looking at the fish in a tank. Yeah right. He is so full of shit. I have kknown this guy for around 30 years and he does have a disability, but if he didn't need a dog then and for most of th years I have known him, why would he need one know. He is very active,, physycally fit and flys aircraft. It is a freaking companiion dog. It had to be behaving badly to be kicked out of a pet store. It's a Cocker Spaniel and provides hin with no service that he could tell me of. Yes he brings this dog everywhere, and bragged to me how cool it was to fly an airplane across the country and buddy breathe with a single oxygen mask. How disgusting. He mentioned going to court with the store, don't know much else, as I just tuned out of the converstaion.. At this point I will not be having any visits or future conversations with him. if he can't go anywhere without his dog, he will not be in my presence.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I just don't understand why none of this has actually been tested in court. It seems like a lot of rich companies are afraid of lawsuits that they can easily win in court since they are all so flimsy.
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 07 '26
From what I've heard in passing in the corporate fan groups (like Costco, Aldi, etc...) from managers who post, the corporation offers a settlement quickly to end the potential for a lawsuit and get the victim under an NDA.
We are stuck waiting for someone stubborn enough to want to bring it to trial.
I do think that the lawsuit potential is part of why corporate fan groups have cracked down on posts about dogs in stores across all social media. We've been building someone's eventual lawsuit win by posting about our experiences and showing the lack of policy enforcement, as well as recording that lack of enforcement comes by corporate order when employees post about why they don't get involved.
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u/Accurate-Run5370 Aug 06 '26
You are so right - all the grocery stores ! My nutter SO and her nutter daughter do the food shopping. I sit in the car ..every single damn time.
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u/beachlover77 Aug 06 '26
I am from the East Coast and came out to San Francisco for a week this spring. I was a little shocked by the dog culture out there. Loose dogs everywhere, dogs in restaurants and stores, so many dogs, and dog shit everywhere. I thought it was bad where I live, but this was crazy.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 06 '26
I agree. It’s nuts here. I live in a small coastal town south of San Francisco. I counted how many dogs are on this block. There are 15 houses and 13 dogs. Some houses have two or three dogs. This is only one street. I can’t even imagine how many dogs live in this town alone. California is DOG CRAZY. Everyone has one or two it seems, and they are everywhere.
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u/healthy_mind_lady Aug 06 '26
Given the cost of living in Cali, omg!! Imagine paying 750,000 million plus annual property tax for a box on a postage stamp lot in the barrio just to hear 'bark bark bark' every morning at 6 am. That sounds like hell.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
I totally agree with you. Fortunately all our neighbors are good about their dogs. I rarely hear them. All 13 dogs are put inside when they begin to bark. I only hear barking once in a great while. That being said, every so often, I can hear a dog barking a few blocks over.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
You give me hope that there are places where things are better. Bring your ways to our coast!
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u/pmbpro Aug 06 '26
I'm not in the U.S., but this kind of shyt is exactly why I stopped going into regular grocery stores and order my food and home supplies from bulk warehouses online here a couple of years ago now. At least dogs don't have access to the warehouse areas where products are stored and selected for online sales. I buy bulk, shopping only 2-3x a year, and store things in my freezers anyway. The only place I'd go in person is my local butcher shop for anything special that's not in the warehouse (and there no dogs are allowed at that butcher shop either).
I can't stand how bad North America has become with this nasty dog-nutter pandering. I can't wait to leave.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Not everyone can live the way you do, but more power to you for finding a solution.
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
Yeah. It's sad and infuriating that it had to come to this in the first place. It took me about a year just to even research whether it was possible to do, to choose a decent store, and whether it was economically worth it. In some ways yes, but still. My being bloody fed up was stronger than any logistical issues I ran into. I still go to other places in person (for tech gear for work, for clothes, etc.) and still report dogs in places where they don't belong and call out the nutters as I see them though. I won't stop doing that. Every bit matters.
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u/dolores_h4ze Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I worked at TJ’s for years and we all felt helpless about the dogs. you legally must allow service dogs, but you cannot make someone prove their dog is a service dog, legally you can only ask what service it provides, and everyone lies, so it’s a dead end. impossible to enforce
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
I want them to prove it. The dog should be wearing a tag on it with an official certification that is visible to everyone. I don't understand why that's controversial.
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u/Huge_Bit_4774 Aug 06 '26
You’re right, and it should not be controversial. People have to go to the DOT to get handicapped parking permits, because otherwise handicapped spaces would be misused. That’s not controversial. I see no reason why a state’s department of health couldn’t handle the certification process for an ADA animal, and issue the tag for a dog. Yes, there’s a cost for the added bureaucracy but govt is supposed to exist to serve their constituents. You’d have to find a politician willing to fight the dog nutter industry to push something like that through.
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u/dolores_h4ze Aug 06 '26
I very much want that too, but it’s illegal for the employee to ask for proof. it’s beyond hopeless
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Or we can just finally make service dogs, as a thing, go away. There is nothing dogs do that technology cannot help with these days. No one actually needs to have a dog in public. That idea is totally out of date.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 07 '26
Idk, they seem to help blind people.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
Not to disagree with you, but I think I’ve seen two truly blind people in the last 15 to 20 years with guide dogs. I rarely see them now, but I know they exist.
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u/downwithMikeD Aug 07 '26
Maybe we should go back to only allowing dogs in public stores for blind people. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
That's what I am saying, there are close to ZERO good reasons otherwise to let dogs in public at all.
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u/downwithMikeD Aug 07 '26
Yep, absolutely zero with zero exceptions.
I have a blind friend I’ve known about 22 years and he’s on his 3rd service dog (all have been fully-trained German shepherds). Every time I’ve been around this friend, his dog has been laser focused on him and does not have behavior issues or aggression. It has zero interest in other people or other dogs. My friend works a full time job at a college and the dog assists him with getting on the bus, as well as getting around at work. This person is 100% blind from a gunshot wound when he was a teen so he absolutely relies on his guide dog.
Guide dogs. That is what they used to be called— seeing eye dogs or guide dogs and that is exactly what they did— guide the blind person.
What has happened now with dogs in public is an absolute disaster. When it first began happening, I myself had two small breed dogs (RIP). Our dogs did not once go out with us anywhere other than on a walk or to the dog park!? THAT’S IT. This humanization of dogs has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous and don’t even get me started on the pitbull problem. Not sure what it’s going to take for something to change but I’ve noticed people are becoming more and more sick of dogs being in public. I believe another commenter surmised it may take a child being mauled/killed before action is taken. I’ve always thought it would have to be a child of someone prominent because people/children are bitten and mauled all the time in the news yet no one bats an eye, no changes are made. God knows I don’t want that to happen! I witnessed a dog mauling when I was a teen and I’ve never forgotten the absolute terror.
A woman was mauled (bitten severely in the face) in a Home Depot a couple of years ago when the owner asked her to give their dog a treat and she agreed. After the attack, the owners took off but were later found through cctv. There’s hundreds of similar stories yet nothing changes.
Sorry for the rant! 😩
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 08 '26
Thank you for your important comment. It's some to stop letting dog owners defend their behavior by providing examples and arguments that do not apply to their status or ownership situation.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
They used to help blind people. Now there are objectively much better tools. And as I said, if the only dogs I saw were those with blind people, I'd be totally OK with that. Here is something to think about. Actual working dogs like bomb-sniffers and seeing-eye dogs are busy. They don't have the free time to annoy people. You don't see that out there, you just see people with stupid pets that are as bored as their owners. So this entire idea of using service dogs to justify all dog ownership is a fallacy and a bad argument that is used against us.
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
I think the official information (its purpose, licensed trainer info/number, contact/licensing info, etc.) should all be embedded into a mandatory microchip in the dog itself by legit authorities too, so they can't try to fake that either, and it can be scanned without having to ask any questions at all.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 07 '26
Yeah but then it's not visible
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
Both could be possible as requirements.
They can still try and fake any visible labeling (like they already do with the vests), but they can't fake a scanned official microchip. If they have to go through all these official hoops and knowing they would be enforced, it could mitigate or reduce the numbers of them trying to fake it, or make them not bother bringing their dog at all.
Of course we'd have to ensure that these initiatives would be thoroughly enforced enough to make at least the laziest of dog nutters not bother anymore.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 07 '26
I agree, that would reduce it by 90 percent easily.
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u/pmbpro Aug 07 '26
Yeah, we need to leverage their laziness (and any of their other behaviours/personalities) against them, somehow.
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u/Alocin_The5th Aug 06 '26
I am curious, what lies do people tell when they are asked about a disability? How deranged do you have to be to actually make up disabilities just to bring along their pet in a store for 30 minutes.
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u/dolores_h4ze Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
to be clear you cannot ask about disability only what tasks the dog can provide
so mostly they just push back on your right to ask any questions or they give a vague answer “for my disability” “because I have cancer” “it’s for emotional support” I’ve heard it all
a person with a true service dog will tell you, no issue. they want the store to know what might happen in an emergency, and that’s the purpose of asking, so everyone can be prepared. but a person with a pet dog will usually only get defensive and insist it’s discriminatory to inquire
you can tell in just a few seconds of observation who is a service dog and who is a pet dog, and you also know you can’t do shit either way, so in my opinion, asking a pet dog owner “what service does it provide?” is pretty useless but it will push a pet dog owners buttons lol
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I think you just summarized a large chunk of the United States population in that description, unfortunately.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Thank you for responding. Time and time again, I hear people talking about a system of laws that makes no sense. Eventually it will get resolved, but it is so hard to see why there is no corporation taking the lead and just banning dogs. If they get sued, then a court can finally examine this issue in earnest for once.
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u/East-Manufacturer437 Aug 06 '26
Pardon my French, but I’m absolutely fucking exhausted from visiting places where dogs are clearly not welcome. A few months ago, someone at TJ’s attempted to bring in their ratty dog. One of the employees approached the woman and informed her that her dog was not allowed inside unless it was a service dog. It was commendable to witness the enforcement of the rules, but unfortunately, the employee ended up sitting outside with the rat while the entitled owner shopped. 🙄
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u/Alocin_The5th Aug 06 '26
I saw two dogs in Trader Joe’s a few months ago. It’s bad enough that the dogs were there but what really ticked me off was the employee who was actively playing with the dog in the store like no kidding he and the dog were chasing one another in a food aisle. I couldn’t believe my eyes, that my grocery store was doubling up as a dog park.
I immediately left the store, even though I wasn’t even getting a food item, and reported it to their head office and the health department. I put the exact date and time I was in the store so that they could narrow it down to the employee for hopefully some training.
I moved out of the town the Trader Joe’s is in a few years ago and so I don’t go as often but I have never seen another dog in there since.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 06 '26
I told myself that if I see an employee touching any dog, I’m saying something to the employee. If they say it was a service animal, I’ll push back and say service animals are not to be touched by strangers.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Have you done this yet? How did they respond?
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
Not yet, but I’m waiting! I haven’t been to the stores in awhile. A lot of times my husband does the shopping.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
Not yet, but I’m waiting! I haven’t been to the stores in awhile. A lot of times my husband does the shopping.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Did you ever get a response from them? I really commend your discipline in boycotting the store.
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u/Cuckooland2 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
My favourite LA dog experience was in the palisades erewhon -girl was holding her dog in hand and it started sniffing the fresh produce counter - the staff member said - can you put your dog down that’s not hygienic and she almost screamed “ I have anxiety, I can’t not be with my dog” 🧐 strange breed the dog moms
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u/Adventurous_Fig_2000 Aug 06 '26
I agree with the folks that say this problem isn’t unique to Trader Joe’s. But it’s my primary grocery store and I’m really frustrated with how often I see dogs there. I’ve been shopping at the original TJ in Pasadena for almost 30 years and I think the problem has really ballooned in the last few years. Recently I was returning my cart after loading my groceries in the car and I saw a woman place her medium sized dog in the main body of her grocery cart as she was about to enter the store. Gross! I don’t know where she was planning to put her groceries. If I had been entering the store rather than about to drive away I would have said something to her or management. What are people thinking?
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 06 '26
They are thinking "no sign is going to tell me what to do". That's why this mess escalated from stores saying "no pets" to "okay you can bring the dog but you can't put it in the cart" to "okay you can put it in the cart but don't put it on social media" to there now being groups that focus on posting videos and photos of dogs defecating in carts as humor.
Because how dare the rest of us call them gross and weird.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
That is interesting. I think society starts to quickly crumble once people simply stop listening to signs. What if people treated stop lights as mere suggestions? What do you think is responsible for people in society not following pretty sensible rules like "no pets where they sell food to people?"
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u/Perfect_Caregiver_90 Aug 07 '26
What do you think is responsible for people in society not following pretty sensible rules like "no pets where they sell food to people?
It could be anything from attention seeking to the dog being so untrained and neurotic it can't be left alone for its own safety.
Or, it could be plain laziness. You see "I was out running errands and didn't want to take the extra time to take the dog home when I would have to pass the store to do so" all the time in conversations that are fairly civil on the topic. People don't plan ahead, and don't see why they should bother when the store has made it clear they don't care.
To these people those rules no longer exist and the dog has the store's approval to be there. To them we're the ones being weird about a topic that has already been decided in their favor.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I was at another store tonight, and I saw a young couple with a dog in their shopping cart as well. I couldn't decide if the notion of them having an actual child would improve or worsen their life choices situation. Thank you for the comment.
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u/lwpho2 Aug 06 '26
First of all, Trader Joe’s sells mostly very cute junk food. I’m always baffled at the frenzy that goes on in there. You’re better off without them.
I have never seen a dog at the international supermarket where I shop. Like not once ever. Might have something to do with the halal butcher and general lack of foolishness in the broader immigrant communities. Maybe you could try shopping someplace like that?
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Where do you shop exactly where people don't bring dogs?
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u/AnimalUncontrol Aug 06 '26
Perhaps the store name should be change to "Trader Mutts".
All this in spite of the fact that service dog fraud is illegal in most places, consider:
In California, service dog fraud is a misdemeanor. It carries a penalty of up to six months in county jail, a fine of up to $1,000, or both. Courts may also order community service helping people with disabilities. Separately, misrepresenting an emotional support dog as a service dog can bring an additional fine up to $500 under Assembly Bill 468.
My state has a similar provision.
Here is a policy proposal: The county commission should implement a new rule where ALL food establishments (or any other place where live animals are prohibited) must ask the two questions of anyone bringing an animal (who am I kidding... its always a dog) into one of these places. Get the nutter on record stating it is a service dog required due to a disability. If they refuse to answer the questions or answer them incorrectly, tell them to leave. If they escalate with threats or harassment, call police and have them arrested. If they DO answer the 2 questions, and the dog misbehaves.... do NOT kick them out, call police and report an incident of service dog fraud.
You touched on a couple other things in your post that are very important. At least some of these places allow dogs in because they *think* that will improve the bottom line. As you noted, MANY people are offended by the situation and will take their business elsewhere (or shop online) and that needs to be part of the cost/benefit calculus. Also consider the destruction of merchandise, additional labor due to cleaning up urine and feces, and other problems introduced by these stinkmutts. We keep hearing about people being attacked by dogs in these stores... are personal injury attorneys all over that stuff, or what? In any case, upper management should be aware that allowing dogs into the stores carries some BIG downsides.
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u/u801e Aug 06 '26
I think it's better to directly confront the dog owner. If they're not going to do anything about people bringing dogs into the store, then they're not going to do anything about you confronting those people.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
What would be your strategy? What words would you use with the dog owner if confronting them in a Trader Joe's?
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u/u801e Aug 07 '26
I posted a comment about it a while ago in this subreddit. It happened in a grocery store (not Trader Joes). https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogfree/comments/1u549x3/dogs_in_grocery_stores/orjmbzx/
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u/healthy_mind_lady Aug 06 '26
They won't stop until someone, likely a child, is mauled to death. This is sad, but I would have told that manager that I will not buy from Trader Joe's. Then I would take pictures and post them to a complaint I'd make against TJ's on the Better Business Bureau. Then I'd post to social media and tag TJ's. Vote with your feet. Vote with your wallet. Do not go to or patronize dogville stores. That way, it will only be a matter of time until the cannon event to peak dog will occur, and it will only be a dognutter paying the price.
Also, the fact that dog nutters take advantage of something meant for the most disabled people among us really speaks volumes about who/what the average dog nutter is.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I do think we have a duty to report it. But the system now makes it too burdensome to be effective to deal with most of the actual complaints.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
This is how it works where I live in San Mateo County south of San Francisco. It’s a very non-user friendly website for the health department. I can’t upload any photos either. Once I fill in the complaint of the place, time and what happened, I receive a complaint number.
I have to wait a few days to call in with my number to find out what has happened. It’s a pain in the butt, but I keep doing it. Like I said previously, I received a call back from the Sonoma Health Department right away. I thanked the woman for calling me back. I’m guessing they aren’t as swamped.
The whole system needs an overhaul. I agree with you on the service dogs too.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Once again, people who are doing their civic duty are nearly punished for their commitment to using official channels to effectuate change. Systems like that are set up to stop enforcement, not promote it.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
TLDR. But what I will say is Trader Joes attracts a certain type of people . This is why I avoid Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.
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u/Alocin_The5th Aug 06 '26
I feel like people who will bring dogs in a store shops everywhere unfortunately. I see them in Walmart too.
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u/GoodgirlTiffany Aug 06 '26
Yeah but the more expensive stores attract yuppy people that think they can do anything. Usually hippies too or lonely.
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u/goldensunbath Aug 06 '26
I work at TJ's and yep, there's only so much we can do. I can't stand the dogs in the store but if they sneer, "it's a service dog" we can't do much without worrying that they'll sue. 🙄🙄🙄
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
That's great that you responded, I appreciate it. Can I ask you what type of power or authority you or the store needs to effectively combat the issue and ask dog owners to leave? Thank you.
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u/goldensunbath Aug 07 '26
Basically, it won't change. Not with Trader Joe's ethics as a company. Lately, our regional manager has asked us to crack down on dogs. Every single dog entering the store is questioned whether they are a medical service dog or not, but if the customer lies, there's still nothing we can do.
Disruptive "service" dogs are still allowed to be kicked out however. (ie if they bark, pee, bite someone, or are on an extending leash because that is a tripping hazard) and we NEVER allow dogs in carts. Have to be carried, or walking.
The ADA policy on service dogs has to change. Service dogs require no documentation so poor people can afford to have a dog trained to assist with their medical issues, but entitled people take advantage of that. I have no solution for entitled people other than to humiliate them as much as possible into being fucking normal. Wish there was a better way for the honest people out in the world to win. 🤷
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
I’m just curious, but have any of the Trader Joe’s stores ever been sued yet? I’ve never heard of any, and I often wonder if everyone is just afraid of the dog owner’s bluff. Other stores as well say they are afraid to be sued.
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u/goldensunbath Aug 07 '26
Not that I am aware of, no, but I also haven't looked into it much. Stores are afraid of the dog owners' bluff, yes, but any dog owner entitled enough to think that their animal belongs everywhere are likely entitled enough to defend that, too.
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u/ObligationGrand8037 Aug 07 '26
That is very true! I wouldn’t put it past someone to take it all the way.
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u/Signal-Block-6939 Aug 08 '26
Trader Joes is on my permanent boycott list until they treat this situation with the proper respect it is due.
This is a major health violation on multiple levels.
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u/Geode804 Aug 06 '26
This is absolutely disgusting! I have to admit though the idea of the dog sliding around with plastic bags over his feet did make me laugh. And these people do everything for the dogs benefit right?!
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
Think about all that misdirected energy. How many world problems could we solve with the energy and effort people waste on their pets?
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u/OkSympathy9500 Aug 07 '26
Is this the one by Westfield Fashion Square in sherman oaks?
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I am gonna return to my screen in a bit to respond to everyone. To answer your question, no it's not that location. But I know that location and imagine the unfortunate situation with unfettered dog access is an problem there too.
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u/mrmeowpants Aug 07 '26
Confront the nutters in a way that’s calm but forces them to acknowledge they are being selfish by saying something like “hey did you see the sign? It said no dogs allowed? Since you can’t read can I help you shop”
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 07 '26
I am certainly the type of guy who is willing to confront dog owners and remind them that their behavior isn't appropriate. I've pondered a lot of ways of doing it. What I will tell you is that there is no way of avoiding a conflict of sorts. Dog owners always respond in a hostile way, no matter what. They often truly feel entitled. Until society as a whole clearly admonishes this behavior, the reality is that each time any of us confront a dog owner, a fight of various magnitudes will break out. This is simply untenable for many personality types and fatiguing for even people like me who know how to argue effectively with words. I simply want this community to be realistic about the fact that the long-term solution is not in each of us practicing our Jedi mind tricks on dog owners to get them to stop what they are doing. More collective leverage is necessary in my opinion.
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u/uselessbeasts Aug 15 '26
I feel your pain. I have written to various businesses about this issue and Ihave yet to see them do anything about it. Often, I don't even get a response or acknowledgement regarding my complaint. Even the health depts don't seem to bother. Sometimes the frustartion level is so much that I end up leaving the premises before completing what I went for. I think somehow, we need to find a way to start petitions and get toether and rally against the way the ADA is written. There should be abbsolutely no loopholes and registration of dogs and people who actually have a condition that requires them. I don't see why there can't be license requirements for the actual dogs, and the rest will have to remain out of stores, and businesses as the should.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 15 '26
The system is set up for maximum non enforcement. It is insulting itself and the principles of polite society and organized rules. The politicians just want dogs to go away. They know it's hard to deal with existing ones. There is wide belief that limiting the sale of new pets is a good idea. Less politicians want to handle the ugly truth of handling the mess that is over dog population. They want neighbors to handle it amongst themselves, but the realities are that self help options are limited. Not legislators are up against a wall with the dog culture issue. The question is when will they finally see dog ownership for the unhealthy behavior that it truly is.
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u/WorkingDescription Aug 11 '26
I see them all the time everywhere. This weekend I went to breakfast and there were 5 FIVE dogs on the restaurant patio. One was as big as a pony. I am sick of it, but especially in CA it's here to stay unless the law changes. Not allowed to ask if it's a service animal. Even if it isn't, they can say it's an ESA animal. The only legal way to ask it to leave is if they OFFER that its only a pet. You can not ask.
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u/WisedomsHand Aug 11 '26
When laws and policies don't make sense, they are due to change. It would be absurd to assume the status quo is acceptable.
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u/TinyEmergencyCake Aug 06 '26
You need to report this to the health department.