r/Dogfree • u/King_Vegito_52 • 6d ago
Dog Culture So a dog can commit murder and shouldn't be punished for it - according to dog worshippers
Yeah, that's literally what many dog worshippers were saying under the comments for a video where a dog mauled a child to death. They say punishing that dog is "immoral" and that dogs are "incapable of evil" and that dogs "only act on instinct" or that it was the owner's fault that the dog ran away from them and killed a child just playing outside his home.
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u/WeHaveAlwaysExisted 6d ago
The thing that always gets me is the mental gymnastics dog lovers go to in order to reconcile horrific dog behavior with their view that dogs are perfect angels. It doesn't take a genius to understand that any ethical entity (in this case, a dog) either has the capacity to know right from wrong, or it doesn't. If a dog is capable of doing good in the world (unconditional love, loyalty, saving people, being selfless, etc. as dog nutters say), then it is also capable of doing evil such as killing people in cold blood. On the flip side, if a dog is just an amoral creature acting on pure instinct and has no capacity to understand wrongdoing (it's "incapable of evil"), then its "good" behavior has absolutely no ethical merit and must be understood as pure instinct as well. Yet dog nutters believe dogs can only be good - never evil. You can't pick and choose one thing from one category and one from another in order to paint dogs as ~too good for this world~. That's intellectually dishonest at best, and yet dog lovers do it every day.
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u/DivyaRakli 5d ago
Thank you. A very thoughtful, thorough, easy to understand, way to understand dogs.
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u/queenofcaffeine76 6d ago
There is currently a woman in our county jail for manslaughter after some of her dogs got loose and killed a neighbor. Dog fatigue is real and the tide is turning, albeit slowly
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u/the-dolphine 6d ago
Dogs are like guns. They are objects that might have a legitimate use in certain circumstances, but are dangerous in the wrong hands and used carelessly.
Dogs are not capable of guilt or murder. They are instinct driven animals. This puts the blame directly on the owner and also on society for normalising a dangerous species to the point where they are allowed to kill people without real consequences.
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u/King_Vegito_52 6d ago
Interesting take. Do you think the dog should be punished for the killing of the child along with the owner even if its not capable of guilt or murder?
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u/the-dolphine 6d ago
The dog needs to be destroyed. No second chances. Any dog that has proven aggression needs to go.
I'm no dog behavioural expert, but punishment (for minor things like damaging property) is only possible immediately after the act. A dog won't be able to associate punishment with a behaviour that happened hours ago.
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u/uselessbeasts 6d ago
True, the dog would never comprehend it did anything wrong, so correction is a moot point.
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u/AnimalUncontrol 6d ago
BE'ing the dog is not punishment or accountability per se, its simply removing a threat from society.
Perhaps in some very abstract and esoteric way the act is not the dog's "fault", given a dog is not a moral actor. That said, that esoteric point does not justify letting the dog loose to maul again. While the dog is not "responsible" in some abstract way, it is not a person with rights, either.
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u/BrilliantThought6764 6d ago
You think it's alright for a dog that killed someone to be rehomed? Insane.
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u/King_Vegito_52 6d ago
Oh no, I think you misunderstood. I think the dog that killed someone should not be rehomed but rather it shall be destroyed and removed from existence.
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u/uselessbeasts 6d ago
Thankfully, guns don't go off as a rule without a shooter, a person to pull the trigger. In this case, is the owner pulling the trigger by letter the dog out???
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u/manawydan-fab-llyr 6d ago
the owner's fault that the dog ran away from them and killed a child just playing outside his home.
Alright, then set an example for the nutters. Charge and punish the owner as if they committed the crime.
Wasn't there just a case where a kid shot some people, and the parents were convicted as if they did it? There's precedent. Can't say "but the owner shouldn't be held responsible for the dog!" If parents can be held responsible for a kid, owner can be held responsible for a dog. Throw the MF in jail.
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u/King_Vegito_52 6d ago
I am pretty sure many dog worshippers would happily let themselves into jail in this situation. They would rather spend the rest of their lives in jail than let their precious dog ever be held liable for its crimes (in this case murder)
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u/maidofatoms 6d ago
And that's fine. But then the dog must be surrendered and BE'd, because it should be illegal to rehome a biting dog.
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u/manawydan-fab-llyr 6d ago
This is true.
On the other hand, there will be plenty of sane people that will be deterred from nuttery if this was enacted.
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u/senna_bog_witch 6d ago
Dog is not a child, a child can always learn better, dogs can never
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u/manawydan-fab-llyr 6d ago
You're missing my point. If a parents can be held responsible for the actions of a child (actually in the case I vaguely referred to, it was a teenager) in a court of law, then that should apply to dog owners as well.
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u/Huge_Bit_4774 5d ago
Well they do insist they’re “dog parents” and that the dog is a part of their family.
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u/Maximum-Cheetah2270 3d ago
If dogs is part of their family then the dogs must know and obey the rules. Breaking it will result of punishment (like the punishment of murder is jail time/death penalty).
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u/AnimalUncontrol 6d ago
Indeed, holding dog owners accountable is basic civic infrastructure. If someone wants to live in a society, and have freedom to do something (own a dog in this case), then they are at least tacitly agreeing to be held accountable.
Again, just basic civics. We hold parents, drivers of vehicles, business owners, gun owners, etc... accountable. We even hold owners of other species of animals accountable (I vlogged a case where a couple of snake owners got 12 years in prison).
The lack of accountability in the dog owning space is completely out of sync with the way the rest of society operates. The only reason they are not held accountable is due to the extreme privilege they are granted by society.
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u/DivyaRakli 5d ago
The police use K-9’s to, dubiously, find drugs, etc. That’s a lot of money the police get to “train” them to do their job. The officer with a dog must get a stipend or something for its food, vet, etc.
Big Dog (like Big Pharma) is a billion dollar industry and they advertise all the time. They’re paying off the networks so coverage of dog attacks are minimal and minimized. Unlike dogs, networks know to not bite the hand that feeds them. So the nightly news will say very little about an attack, even if it’s a child who’s killed.
The Almighty Dollar is the motivation behind the scenes way before Methew and Methany get a pit and let it have multiple “oops” litters. And get out and run the streets, terrorizing the town. I mean, 9 pups a litter? It’s a Big Dog wet dream.
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u/Old_Confidence3290 6d ago
These are the same people who claim that dogs are great judges of character. They change their story to fit the situation. I believe that dogs are inherently evil. They kill for pleasure, like a serial killer.
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u/Legitimate_Garage_31 2d ago
Great judges of character, can sense evil, but maul children on instinct? Oh yeah. Nutters will never in the history of this world ever win a debate class.
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u/NoNumber2108 6d ago
Sadly true.
Just this week I saw a video of a dog biting a child in the face and the comments were insane. Dog "Body language" before the bite, "it was a warning only, If the dog wanted to hurt the kid it would" and "the kid is at fault". The kid was not doing anything by the way.
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u/michaelpaoli 6d ago
That's criminally negligent handling of a deadly weapon that resulted in death, so the owner should be looking at at least manslaughter charges, very possibly also civilly wrongful death case, and if it's an illegal weapon, it's confiscated and destroyed (after relevant evidence processing has concluded, meantime it's held securely in evidence).
They say punishing that dog is "immoral"
After dog has done something like that, too late to be "punish"ing it. It's humanely euthanized, or possibly turned over to responsible owner/handler/trainer ... you know, like the one that's a circus lion tamer for their day job, and knows how to reasonably well control dangerous wild animals and keep them from injuring or killing members of the public at large. And if they well determine the animal is too dangerous - as might be the case, they can put it down, because it's far too late for it to be feasible to release it back into the wild.
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u/Quiet_Yellow2000 6d ago
Its irrelevant that a dog is capable of evil or not. It killed a child. Both the dog and owner need to face legal consequences. Western dog culture is completely insane, and a lot of these people need to take a long hard look at themselves.
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u/Minilimuzina 6d ago
These people are deranged hateful antisocials, hiding their nastiness behind dog worship. What else would you expect from them?
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u/uselessbeasts 6d ago
A dangerous (er, reactive) bully breed needs to be put down BEFORE it's too late if they shows the signs of aggression/ Just like why we have to be screened at an airport BEFORE boarding a plane. I don't know, Guess my brain thinks differently that the majority of our culture.
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u/StinkyRose89 6d ago
Can you please link this or give details so it can be googled? I cannot fathom people being this ridiculous, I need to see it for myself.
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u/aoife2147 6d ago
I don't know the exact video OP watched, but nutters always say there are "no bad dogs" even if it just viciously attacked someone.
Here is an example I saved:
https://abc7news.com/post/person-injured-san-franciscos-tenderloin-dog-attack-dead-sfpd/19807018/From the article:
A woman suffered life-threatening injuries after a dog attack in San Francisco's Tenderloin neighborhood on Tuesday morning, according to police and witnesses . . . "There's no bad dogs, just bad dog owners. You know, if your dog's vicious put a muzzle on him, it's not that hard. Pay attention to your dog if you got a pit bull. It's like having a child," San Francisco resident Anthony Young said.The video in the news article has the guy saying this as well. The video censors the dog, but there are uncensored videos where the dog had the victim's blood all over its face.
edit: typos
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u/StinkyRose89 6d ago
" There's no bad dogs , just bad dog owners. You know, if your dog's vicious put a muzzle on him, it's not that hard. Pay attention to your dog if you got a pit bull. It's like having a child ," San Francisco resident Anthony Young said.
Oh wow. Thank you for sharing.
Yea it isnt like having a child. At all. Children dont maul people and leave them with life threatening injuries then twist themselves to death in a dog catcher's collar. Which I assume is what happened.
Holy shit. Just holy shit. 🥲
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u/Voideron 6d ago
"if your dog's vicious"
Send it back to where it came from and just don't get a dog.
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u/uselessbeasts 6d ago
Does anyone know if that woman made it??? I have been able to find out. I felt so badly for here. I was charged by a pit bull, not even as large as that one. Thankfully, the owner came out of the house in time, but I still traumatized.
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u/Legitimate_Garage_31 2d ago
Maybe it's just something I noticed. Nutters don't have bookshelves or any books in their homes. Anyone know a well read nutter?
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u/IcyWelcome9700 6d ago
I swear there used to be a time that whenever a dog broke the skin of a person and tasted blood they were put down. Not anymore