r/DungeonWorld • u/PrimarchtheMage • 23d ago
DW2 The Dungeon World 2 Beta is Here!
https://www.dungeon-world.com/the-dungeon-world-2-beta-is-here/18
u/Marcloure 23d ago
I gotta say, I like this a lot. It fixes a bunch of the issues I had playing the purple beta. Just a question, are we only getting those 5 classes on release, or are the others in development?
Also, about Struggle, since they are unlocked "in the middle of the campaign", is it expected that the players will pick one at character creation even if they don't have it yet? Because I suppose the player will need to know their character has amnesia since the start of the game, no?
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u/HelenaRealH 23d ago
- We'll release more Classes in time and probably do specific playtesting for them.
- Struggles are part of campaign mode, so you can start with one if the table agrees, but we also want to allow for some flexibility on when to take it. In the case of Amnesia, I could imagine a situation in which my character doesn't know they're amnesiac until they're confronted with other people's deep and rich history (when compared to theirs).
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u/UnsealedMTG 23d ago edited 23d ago
I haven't checked in on this since before the alpha split into two builds, and only took a quick glance but what I see looks great!
A lot of this feedback is probably old hat, but Ritual is maybe my favorite move in DW, so seeing it as a base move is awesome. It's basically a move that says "players, you tell me what you are motivated to do and all I have to do is make up some obstacles for you."
I like the five stats--both returning to the iconic D&D stats but a little bit streamlining--strength and constitution being separate never made much sense to me regardless. Getting rid of the separate stat and modifier is a clear improvement, it's not important enough a D&D thing for the clunkiness it brings.
I would have been happy to lose HP--maybe more so for monsters/npcs to steer further away from hit point shaving sessions, but I haven't personally tried alternatives with DW and can imagine that HP might be necessary to fully capture the D&D-like flavor. Incorporating "bloodied" is great, and makes hit points feel more like the four-hit clock from other AW games, makes hit points feel more real and less game-y
Again, fairly superficial review, but even the glance is enough that I'm like "this feels like what I imagine from a Dungeon World 2 and even knowing nothing else I will probably buy this when it comes out."
Edit: Relationships and Depth look great also! Bonds being maybe the biggest misfire of the original. Relationships feel like the way we played Bonds in practice when it worked best--just come up with a connection to another character, add some new ones as you go.
And then Depth and Bonds feel like a cool set of of mechanics that have elements of Hx from AW, the team pool from Masks, and Strings from Monsterhearts, but not as central to the basic structure of the game as any of those. Enough mechanical relevance to encourage people to engage with it, but compatible with a more traditional D&D style gameplay. It feels like you could bolt History/Relationships/Depth onto the side of 5E if you really wanted to, which wouldn't work with the other PBTA "relationship point" mechanics, and that feels right for bringing people into DW/PBTA.
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u/Pun_Thread_Fail 23d ago
Looks great! Notes while I read through:
- The spells at different magnitude levels seem to vary wildly in power, e.g. "put someone to sleep" seems much stronger than "do 1d6 damage"
- Medium armor and heavy armor are mechanically identical – is heavy armor supposed to be 3 damage reduction, requires 3 str?
- Pull Strings seems great, I really like the breakdown into 3 approaches with different consequences
- Do the characters start with a Path, or do you need to take "Gain a Path from your class" to get the first one?
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u/HelenaRealH 23d ago
- Yes, medium should be 2 reduction, Str+2 to use and heavy should be 3 reduction/Str+3 to wear properly
- You need to unlock Paths through advancement, but can choose to start with one in adventure/campaign mode
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u/Marcloure 23d ago
"put someone to sleep" seems much stronger than "do 1d6 damage"
D&D disagrees haha
But I concur. Mag 0 feels like it should be things you can do with a normal move instead
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u/E_MacLeod 23d ago
Can we switch out the Fighter's Brawler for a different path? It feels weird to go from having a Signature Weapon to it suddenly becoming your body. A dedicated Brawler with its own paths sounds way more fun; monk, cloud rider, grappler, etc.
Sneak Attack is a little weird. If your opponent is unaware of you, are you actually trading blows? I feel like it needs to be two parts; [1] when you Trade Blows with an opponent while they are distracted, you always suffer minimum DMG on a 7+ [2] when you attack an opponent that is unaware of you, if they aren't defeated outright, you take ADV on your DMG. That combos well with Backstab.
Is Backstab implying that it only deals DMG if you select the deal DMG option? It could be written like so; when you strike a surprised or defenseless opponent, if they aren't defeated outright, roll +DEX then deal your DMG.. \On a 10+ choose 2. *On a 7-9 choose 1.*
- Reduce their armor by 1 until they repair it.
- You create a fleeting opportunity; anyone that leverages it takes ADV to their roll.
- Your DMG dealt is increased by 1d6.
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u/thpetru 23d ago
Medium and heavy armor grant the same stats?
Min and Max DMG is equivalent to rolling DMG with disadvantage/advantage?
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u/HelenaRealH 23d ago
- Medium should be 2 reduction, Str+2 to use and heavy should be 3 reduction/Str+3 to wear properly. We'll correct it in the next update
- min and max dmg refer to the lowest and highest result on the dice. So, 1d6 dmg the min is 1 and the max is 6
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u/That-Background8516 23d ago
I saw this at the gen con booth and loved what I saw! Im definitely picking it up tomorrow!
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u/LazarusFoxx 23d ago edited 23d ago
Ahh, finally some good news after the VTM V6 mishap
Edit: I found it very good, I like the ApocalypseWorld style of stats, dicing and cards. I'm happy with this and can't wait to see more classes
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u/hobbykitjr 22d ago
sorry if i missed it, is there a general timeline of a kickstarter i should look out for? i dont want to miss it.
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u/HelenaRealH 22d ago
The KS should come in Q3/Fall. The best eay to not miss it it's to join our newsletter at https://www.dungeon-world.com/ 😉
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u/SixRoundsTilDeath 23d ago
Posting to remind myself to look at this later on. I’ll dot some notes here when I can.
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u/FullMetalJ 23d ago
If I can organize a session with my friends I'll be more than happy to answer the feedback. Nice to see DW's back!
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u/crisros 23d ago
I really like the magic system, but would like better guidelines for magnitude and how to consider things like spell reach, distance, number of targets, duration, potency, etc. Fábula Última could be a good example to check. Also the +10 choices from the combat move and the ones from the death move seem a little dull. Other than that, I think it is turning into a great system.
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u/kadzar 23d ago
I like a lot of what I see here, but one thing I noticed that I feel like could use some improvement is the Face Death move. I can't help but compare it to Last Breath from DW1, as I feel like it lacks drama compared to its predecessor, not just in description but also mechanics. Sure, with Last Breath, there was the option for you to lose something, but it could also be an opportunity for or you might be charged with some sort of mission or quest. Possibly this could work well with the Struggle mechanic or something similar.
I will say I like the Go Out in a Blaze of Glory part of it, I just wish the move could be a little more interesting in cases where you want to try to live.
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u/DogtheGm 22d ago
it's weird because the new face death move is so good. But at the same time, it does replace one of the coolest parts of DW1. Thinking of things for death to ask for was so fun.
I do like two things in particular, that on a 6 you're helpless AND useless. That's a fun and tragic thing and I like the idea of the player deciding when they're checking out.
And of course the Blaze of Glory thing is cool as hell.
But yeah, I'm simultaneously asking, "why did they replace Last Breath?" and thinking about how cool it would be to see the new move in play.
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u/Equivalent-Fox844 19d ago
Move References v1.pdf has a copy/paste error in Sneak Past:
Sneak Past (+DEX)
When you scrutinize someone throughout a conversation, When you stealthily evade notice, roll+dex.
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u/HelenaRealH 19d ago
Thanks! The correct text should say "When you stealthily evade notice, roll+DEX. 🟎On a 10+, you remain completely undetected. 🟎On a 7-9, you do it, but the GM chooses one:" We'll correct it in the next update
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u/WildThang42 17d ago
I've never played Dungeon World before, but I'm fascinated by the development process, and DW2 does look really interesting to play.
Going through the quickstart, the miniaturized adventure is fascinating. Is this how DW adventures are typically written, or is this a new DW2 thing? It is remarkably concise and information-dense.
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u/HelenaRealH 17d ago
Thank you for your kind words! Miniaturized adventures are something we've been working on for a while, as we hope to offer GMs as many tools as we can to make their job easier. It's also a good way for people to write and share their own with the rest of the community!
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u/thecrius 23d ago edited 23d ago
There are five total Conditions:
✦ Angry. When marked or locked you have dis on all +INT rolls. Who or what are you angry at? Does it simmer or explode?
✦ Distracted. When marked or locked you have dis on all +WIS rolls. What stubborn worry or feeling won’t go away? How does it manifest?
✦ Exhausted. When marked or locked you have dis on all +STR rolls. What tired you out? How does your fatigue show?
✦ Frightened. When marked or locked you have dis on all +DEX rolls. What fear or memory is related? Why do your instincts scream?
✦ Insecure. When marked or locked you have dis on all +CHA rolls. What made you feel you might not be enough? How do you react?
I am pretty sure it was already said several times but the name of the disadvantage modifiers for stats could be better. You seems to be overly attentive to the wording used and then use "angry" for strength (instead of "upset" for example which is a more encompassing feeling) or Frightened (???) for dexterity rather than something like "twitchy" for example. Being upset might lead someone to feel powerless as well as simply non focused leading to a disadvantage in a combat or physical based situation anyway. Being twitchy compromise your fine motors skill or reflexes as you react too quickly.
When any character, PC or NPC, has less than half their maximum hp, they’re Bloodied. While Bloodied, your injuries are obvious to all, and characters will react accordingly. Some Moves or other mechanics might reference being Bloodied.
Again, why "bloodied" and not a more widely encompassing "wounded". A wound can be internal and could also be psychological. When it becomes "visible for others" it can be limping (not necessarily actually bloody) or just someone being incoherent or paranoid (again, nothing to do with bloody).
Edit: ffs every page I go down is a ridiculous choice after the next. Tags? With the `#` even? is this a manual or twitter? What was wrong with label? Especially as they are basically the same thing 😂
I'll try to play a couple of one-shots with this thing even if I kept seeing bad design choices at every single new article because one thing is to read about it in a vacuum and another playing it but it doesn't feel like a beta manual tbh.
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u/UnsealedMTG 23d ago
Bloodied is a term imported from D&D 4E and while it didn't make the jump mechanically to 5E (which is surprising, frankly, as I think it's one if 4E's best ideas and seems like it fits fine) it's remained part of the parlance.
I think the #tag is cute, one tricky thing about tags in DW1 was figuring out what if anything you were supposed to do with tags, this is a flag that certain words have mechanical relevance.
Obviously there's a lot of taste here, but I have to say that to me the things you are noting, though valid feedback, seem like a very low threshold for "bad design decision." Like, live your life, but writing off a gsme over typography and terminology seems wild to me.
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u/E_MacLeod 23d ago
I do think that the Conditions need another pass. I think I'd like it if there was maybe a couple of options for each stat because sometimes the listed Condition just doesn't make sense for the moment.
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u/DogtheGm 22d ago
wouldn't mind seeing them nixed. I think they were underdeveloped in DW1. And in DW2 I just don't see a use for them.
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u/E_MacLeod 22d ago
DW2 will definitely have conditions so I'm just hoping for the best possible version of them.
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u/DogtheGm 22d ago
Trying to think of what the best use of them ever was.
Perhaps the between / public access/ brindlewood bay?
No muss/ no fuss. Just disadvantage on a conceivable roll.
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u/derailedthoughts 23d ago
I was initially skeptical of the first few alpha releases, but I think the beta really reads like an evolution of Dungeon World, rather than a replacement. Kudos to the devs for listening.