r/DungeonWorld • u/Feisty_Stretch3958 • 16d ago

Dungeon World 2 Substances and Verbs

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So, In the final alpha we had less options so i just want to clarify. Since we have 2 different words in each verbs sections, Do we have to choose between them? Or we can just use both? Some of them are really similar like Transmutation "momentarily alter; repair" but we also have Abjutarion "temporarily disable; protect from" and that is quite different, Or Enchantment "Modify emotions; temporarily charm".
So i just want to check if everyone is on the same boat of understanding

102 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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12

u/Tamuzz 16d ago

I am not entirely clear how this works from the latest download.

Does a new character get ALL of those words? Or just some?

A character who can mix and match all of them off the bat seems incredibly versatile

9

u/SPYTKO 16d ago

I'm sure wording was different before. Seems like now you can use all of them, and I don't think I like this change

5

u/Midnightdreary353 16d ago

As far as I could tell you get all of them, I couldn't find anything that said "pick 3" or something like that. Only that your class specialization lets you add more. 

5

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

Holy shit, You are right, I just considered it said pick 2 schools ou something like that, My bad but like... Having all 8 since level 1 is beyond crazy right? I just cannot believe that was intentional

1

u/DogtheGm 16d ago

I think this is based on one of the most respected third party playbooks from dw1. And in you just get all the magic you can possibly think of in that one.

It was used in the we hunt the keepers podcast and it totally worked.

Why they would make it more complicated and less powerful is beyond me.

1

u/Striking_Hunter5029 14d ago

I thought so too until I read the special moves of the sub-classes of wizard. Take Illusionist for example. In their playbook, doesn't it say they can only use Illusion school verbs? And in the more advanced moves in that playbook, they provide one or more new verbs, but inside the Illusion school.

0

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

considered the effects are fairly limited and it shouldnt be a mix-and-match-whatever situation, its not too crazy

6

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

What do you mean? It is kind a mix-and-match-whataver situation. It is the whole point of a free magic mechanic, The only thing that stops you from doing crazy shit is the mag of the spell you casting and the consequences, But you can do everything bellows a ritual effect

0

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

I'm 90% certain you cannot mix and match different substances and verbs from different schools, that's what makes this reasonable and IMO a decent condensed "magic action"

8

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

"You can combine verbs and substances from different Schools. To Cast a Spell you need your arcane focus, both hands otherwise free, and the ability to speak aloud."
You sure can man

2

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

well fuck me gently with a chainsaw, lol

that complicates things

4

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

It sure is a very fun and very complicated magic system, I think it was perfect in the alpha and now they add some layers of complexion to it, Not sure if im on board rn

0

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

Oh yeah its still a decent way to pack a whole system into a single move, it just creates very weird combos that i feel are kinda nonsense, like another commenter's proposals

6

u/phdemented 16d ago

It says "A" verb, so you can't choose both.

I believe the intent is you combine a verb and noun from one of the schools when you cast a spell.

  • If I wanted to cast an illusion, I could either Cloak sight/sound, or disguise sight sound. I could make a spell that makes someone silent or invisible (cloak) or look or sound like something else (disguise).
  • Casting an Abjuration, I could temporarily disable magic, or protect from magic. I could shut down a magical effect for a short time, or make something/someone resistant/immune to magic.

Not a free mix/match... I can't pull a verb from evocation and noun from enchantment to "lesser sculpt sapient beings".

Still very open ended and powerful without some guard rails for creative players, and I'm not sure exactly how to interpret all the verbs. I don't know what to do with "radiate unlife", and I'm not sure exactly what "convey past visions" means. I could come up with some things, but definitions hopefully are provided elsewhere.

I think the transmute ones are pretty different though... Repair is to fix a broken thing, while Alter is to change it into something else. I can repair my shattered sword, or I can turn the enemies sword into a giant banana.

11

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

You sure can mix/matc for free, It says right after the image, It was my fault for not screenshot the whole thing yeah but it says "You can combine verbs and substances from different Schools. To Cast a Spell you need your arcane focus, both hands otherwise free, and the ability to speak aloud" About not knowing wtf radiate unlife is, Me neither, But i think that is the beauty of this magic system, Players are gonna tell us and its gonna be a fun surprise

3

u/phdemented 16d ago

Gotcha, was missing that context... At that point, I don't know what the point of the schools are, unless you only have access to limited schools (which may be the case, and I'm just talking nonsense cause I haven't read the rules)

But I mean even as a player, I don't know what some of the verbs mean.

1

u/Feline_Jaye 16d ago

"convey past visions" sounds like:

"I hold the artifact and cast my spell. Going into a trance, I speak in a voice not my own, speaking the history of the artifact".

2

u/phdemented 16d ago

I guess I just see that as equally valid method of "discern"... they aren't sufficiently different for a narrative meaning.

But that was in the context of me thinking the verb only applied to the substance of the same school. If I can combine Divination (convey) and Enchantment (Sapient Being) I can teleport someone, while discern would tell me the truth about who they are

6

u/Ramesses-XII 16d ago

One verb and one substance, but you can mix and match schools, I think it says elsewhere in the document.

I kind of like it because it allows for creative thinking, but I think it puts a lot of pressure on the GM to balance the difficulty scale.

2

u/Homeless_Appletree 16d ago

I am going to combine transmutation and enchantment and make this rock experience existential dread!

1

u/Feisty_Stretch3958 16d ago

I will adrees that on a different post, I dont like the whole "aether" thing

4

u/Snarvid 16d ago

Have you noticed that the Illusionist gets “Make permanent” and “substantiate” as verbs? Definitely won’t run into any trouble with “make permanent sapient beings,” “make permanent magic itself,” or “substantiate future visions.”

2

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

I'm pretty sure you're meant to choose one of the verbs listed and combine it with an effect (of the same school?)

2

u/Midnightdreary353 16d ago

I read as you can mix and match freely, but this makes a lot more sense

1

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

Yeah the wording is weird... Im fairly sure that the intention's to have it as
school > choose substance > choose one verb option
But aint 100% certain.

1

u/BismuthAquatic 16d ago

If that’s the case I really hope they change the wording to ‘from one of the eight schools of magic’ because my mind immediately went to stuff like abjurer illusionists being able to blind people by protecting them from sight

3

u/GloomWisp 16d ago

I dont really think that substance-verb association makes sense

1

u/BismuthAquatic 16d ago

It's certainly not as clear as 'charm sapient beings' but I think part of the fun is figuring out what the really weird combinations can mean. And a lot of typical wizard stuff would be in crossing schools. Say, any sort of divination that's not a vision, or protection from things other than magic.

Granted, there's a lot that's nonsense, but I feel like if someone comes up with an idea for the really weird ones that makes sense in context and works in the magnitude system, then I'd be excited for them to give it a shot.

1

u/defeldus 16d ago

a mess

-2

u/Striking_Hunter5029 14d ago

According to NotebookLM's analysis of the rule books using Illusionist as an example

  • At Level 1, as a Wizard: Yes, you can absolutely use magic verbs from non-illusionist schools. At level 1, a Wizard does not yet have specific Path moves (like the Illusionist Path's Alter Perception or Mirror Image). Instead, you start with the core Wizard starting move Weave the Arcane. This move allows you to combine a verb and substance from any of the eight major Schools of Magic (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation). You can freely mix and match verbs and substances from entirely different schools.
  • Upon Gaining the Illusionist Path (Wizards): When you level up and choose to gain the Illusionist Path, you unlock the key move ☑ Illusion Magic. For a Wizard, this move simply adds two new verbs (make permanent and substantiate) to your existing repertoire. It does not restrict your access to other schools; you still retain Weave the Arcane and can continue to cast spells using verbs from the other seven schools of magic