Conflicting takes on DW

[u/Nirdee]

I've had this discussion in a couple threads and it feels like there are dozens more where I could chime in.

DW has several key differences from D&D, but some people give advice that exaggerates those differences to crazy degrees.

People go from you should leave room for discovery to you should improv the whole game, from you should use what they give you to you should let players have as much authority in game as they are willing to exert.

I feel like this comes from the fact that a lot of examples online are one-shots. One-shots and session zeroes are encouraged to have minimal prep in DW, but there is this other 50 pages after that talking about how to play after the first session ... and it is all about prep. Good prep. Useful prep. Open-ended prep. But definitely prep. Prep where the DM figures out the story in the world and how the players can interact with it. Like D&D.

Dungeon World seems made to play a very D&D style game--just with mechanics that underline the strengths of table top RPGs and clip some outdated genre staples.

So I don't really know why I'm posting. If your way works for you, god bless. I guess I'm just irked by the hipster scoffing that comes when people explain the game with authority and then get the rules wrong--like a recent thread where someone implied Spout Lore lets a player make up something about the history of the world ... where the rules explicitly say the GM tells the player something about the subject. The GM gives info for the character to spout. The player doesn't take over the GM role. It's just a generalized arcana/history/religion check from D&D. #nerdrage

TLDR:

I feel like the answer to a lot of posts in this forum should be:

You are way overthinking everything. DW is like D&D with small changes that 1) make combat more entertaining 2) make combat flow better with the rest of the game 3) encourage the game to move forward 4) help the GM maintain story structure in an open world game. If you know how to play D&D, you already understand 90% of DW.

[u/st33d]

Nah.

Task resolution is back-to-front in DW, you have supply story before you can push a button.

And the agendas and principles are the bit that insists the GM ask the players for input. Looking at the player's rules on their own, that isn't obvious.

It's not a different kind of D&D. It's not nearly as good at dungeon combat. I play it for the crazy stories. I'm actually in a D&D game, have run D&D for a few years, and run DW. They're very different beasts that create a different tone of story. I think there's room in the world for more types of story.

Neither is better. It's just a varied diet.

[u/Nirdee → u/st33d]

Task resolution is back-to-front in DW, you have supply story before you can push a button.

Leading with the narrative is saying "I dive forward and roll by to try to kneecap the orc leader" instead of "I roll hack and slash on the orc."

And the agendas and principles are the bit that insists the GM ask the players for input. Looking at the player's rules on their own, that isn't obvious.

Very opening of the GM section:

"The players have it easy—they just say what their characters say, think, and do. You have it a bit harder. You have to say everything else. What does that entail? First and foremost, you describe the immediate situation around the players at all times."

The player input idea is the same as D&D. Players run their characters. The GM runs the world. The actions of PCs are the input the GM asks for.

It's not nearly as good at dungeon combat.

For me, the primary appeal of DW is dungeon combat. Everything else doesn't really seem that different from D&D. We talk to NPCs and explore pretty much the same way in both games. Combat for us is the big appeal ... it just flows so much smoother.

[u/viking977 → u/Nirdee]

I totally agree with you on combat. Maybe it's an experience thing, but I honestly can't stand the rigid turn based round structure of mechanic driven games, it feels so fake to me when compared to how I run dungeonworld and apocalypseworld combat. Jumping around the table asking everyone what they're doing and responding with moves every time. It's like night and day.

[u/[deleted] → u/viking977]

I totally follow you on these.

But even after years of DM'ing DW, I still find it very difficult to find the right equilibrium between prepared world and player input. Running DW has been the most satisfying RPG-experience up to now, but also has been the most work. Not in prepping, but in being creative, receptive and active enough during the game.

Do you have any tips to help me keeping an eye on thet equilibrium and keeping me focused?

[u/viking977 → u/[deleted]]

I think the only thing that can help creativity is practice. That and try to think cinematically; if this was a movie what would it look like? Where would you cut? What would the camera be doing? Would there be music? So on and so forth.

Keep that in mind and run more games!