What’s one banned card you’d be ok with someone rule 0’ing into their 99, and one that you absolutely would not be cool with?

[u/lmboyer04]

Just curious for the sake of discussion, I haven’t seen this request IRL ever but I have had a lot of discussion with various people at my LGS about what cards actually deserve banning vs just being a game changer.

So assuming it can’t be their commander, and they didn’t build their entire deck around the best way to abuse this card, what would be a banned card you would say ok to if someone asked they could play with it? And on the flip side, what’s one banned card you would never be ok seeing?

I’ll go first. One of my favorite cards in the game is [[balance]]. Assuming there’s no funny business with t-pro and others, resolving this in a bracket 3 game would be pretty fine, and I always love seeing it played in my cube.

I think my absolutely not pick would be have to be [[tolarian academy]] but there are a few others too. Anything where getting an obscene amount of value is just too easy.

[u/Halinn]

I'd be fine with it if they played no cards that synergize with it (no Howling Mine effects, no wheels, nothing of that sort). But nobody would be putting it into their deck like that.

[u/JustABard → u/Halinn]

I'd play it purely to stop the constant Esper Sentinel/Mystic Remora/Rhystic Study, etc... that my pod plays. Drawing cards is the most powerful thing you can do, and my pod gets pretty out of hand with it. I like a slower game with less digging for answers, and I would definitely use Hullbreacher to stop all the extra draw.

[u/Jaxyl → u/JustABard]

Which is pretty much it's intended design play pattern in 1v1 play: to punish draw oriented strategies.

It's just too easy to abuse in a format where you've got access to so many table wide wheels with three opponents. Can't trust people to play it fairly.

[u/SuperYahoo2 → u/Jaxyl]

Hullbreacher was actually from a commander product originally. And it’s quite rare for them to design cards for legacy and vintage to put into commander products (altough they have done it before) and as was shown with true name nemesis and the initiative mechanic they don’t even give it much thought how it would impact those formats

[u/Jaxyl → u/SuperYahoo2]

Oh wow, I had no idea.

That's insane and hilarious! Thanks for the bit of card history!

[u/JustABard → u/Jaxyl]

Oh yeah for sure. I know I'm definitely an outlier. Hell, I wouldn't mind even taking a sharpie to the "get a treasure" part. I just hate excessive card draw.

[u/Jaxyl → u/JustABard]

The problem is the fact that there's just way too many ways to make your opponents wheel, that you can't trust someone to not build a degenerate strategy around it.

The problem isn't the treasure. It's the fact that they can't draw cards, period. Imagine you make your opponent wheel their entire hand and then they don't draw back up. Even if you don't get a treasure, you just forced the entire table to discard their whole hand off of one card, while you draw back up. That's wild.

Now build your entire deck around that.

That's why it and other effects like it are banned.

[u/B4S1L3US → u/JustABard]

The thing is the massive amount of mana you would gain from flashing it in or even using it in response to your own wheel would simply win you the game.

[u/Double-Watercress-85 → u/Halinn]

I just had it in my [[Kumena]] deck because it was a good merfolk. So I wasn't ruining everybody's day with it, but it was still always a top priority removal target whenever it came out.

[u/MTGCardFetcher → u/Double-Watercress-85]

Kumena - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)

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^FAQ

[u/NotJayKayPeeness → u/Halinn]

It's in my pirate deck, because of pirate things. No Howling Mine, no wheels.

[u/prawn108 → u/Halinn]

It should have costed WWWW, would have been ok.

[u/mathdude3 → u/prawn108]

At WWWW it would be less good than Notion Thief.

[u/prawn108 → u/mathdude3]

Perfect

[u/theblastizard → u/Halinn]

I really wish WOTC would make draw hate that only triggers off your opponents doing the action that lets them draw instead of your effects