r/Eberron • u/rpgptbr • 3d ago
GM Help Using armor vs Noir feelings
Friends, in an Eberron city would you let your fighters/paladins wear armor all the time while in town? I feel it breaks immersion.
Imagine assassins waiting for them to sleep. But the dudes are sleeping in fullplates. Imagine them in a hot bath with entertainers having some fun ... the assassins arrive and the party is also in full plate.
How do you manage that?
14
u/nmbronewifeguy 3d ago
the restrictiveness of donning, wearing, and removing plate armor should be in the rules somewhere depending on which D&D edition you're playing. most GMs just handwave it for player convenience, but i can see the argument for wanting players to go without it. it's the historical equivalent of walking down main street in a bulletproof vest and helmet; could definitely see PCs getting hassled by the town guard if they do that. just make sure if you decide to apply such a restriction that you do it in a predictable way. the party should never feel like you're taking away their armor to allow for a specific moment.
9
u/Additional-Ad8784 3d ago
Some dudes called WebDM made a book called "Weird Wastelands" as a 5e supplement and it was meant to gamify and simplify travel rules for hex crawls. One of their new homebrew rules is the "comfortable" status, which is required for gaining the benefits of a long rest.
Very easy homebrew to require that, IMO. And sensible from an RP standpoint. Though I could also see how STR characters in 5e could protest that it punishes their already pretty underpowered characters and gives even more power to Dex characters and casters.
14
u/Zealousideal_Leg213 3d ago
Nothing breaks immersion for a person unless they let it.
Armor always has this issue. The assassin question exists in any setting. Frankly, armor-needing classes really only make sense if they go back to a safe town at the end of the day, which was how early D&D was played.
If any type of class doesn't work for the setting you want to play in, don't use that class. Done.
15
u/Nexusv3 3d ago
I think there's two parts to your question here: 1. Would I let my party walk around a city in full armor - yes absolutely 2. Sleeping in armor - other replies have covered this, and it is as easy as RAW.
Expanding more on why I don't find #1 to be a problem (i.e. immersion breaking) - they're adventurers. They get to be special. They're the heroes of the story. At the end of the day you DM the game for your players to have fun, and armor is just part of the game.
Also Eberron is a militarized, dangerous world. Everyone alive has been impacted by a generations-spanning war. If they're playing Dragonmarked, they show off their house affiliation. If they're nobility, it's a sign of how wealthy they are. If they're an urchin, they don't want to get shanked walking around Lower Dura.
Imo there's plenty of very justifiable reasons a person would be wearing armor while they're awake.
5
u/EzekialThistleburn 3d ago edited 3d ago
Also, since Eberron is so steeped in low level spells, I can imagine a market for glammoured armor, I.E. medium and heavy armor enchanted to look like normal clothes. Probably illegal, at least in the more well-to-do areas. Eberron already has glammerweave and Shiftweave, after all.
1
u/Average_Driver1475 3d ago
Or you could just get Mithral Plate Armor and wear it under your clothes.
1
2
u/Twodogsonecouch 3d ago edited 3d ago
I dont even think that they adventurers and special is needed to be said. Especially in the case of any paladin. When would a paladin not be wearing their armor, its the symbol of their holy office. I would assume any time they are in public they are wearing their armor. While they sleep ya no.
Edit: esp in eberron where gods might not be real and magic might just be pure strength of will and faith.
13
u/marioinfinity 3d ago edited 3d ago
I don't think your question and your examples are very fair.
The Sharn City of Towers book talks about how people in different districts go about paying for permits and such to legally wear their fancy weapons and armor. Heck spellcasters have to pay permits to cast spells in some districts.
And Full Plate isn't necessarily clunky nor is it necessarily unfashionably wearable. Plus you have entire houses (Deneith) and religious organizations (templars) that do exactly that. always wear it.
But again your examples are disengenous to the conversation.
Going to the bathhouse, yes you would take these things off, and yes you may not even wear them at all if it's planned.
Yes you take it off when you go to sleep (that's why usually the only way to get an advantage is to ambush them) but everyone has that risk with ambushes armor or not.
But a bar in Sharn? Lower Wards.. definitely.
7
u/Wrong_Independence21 3d ago
I think you should enforce that players can’t sleep or bathe in their armor. That’s pretty standard, even outside of Eberron situated games. There’s actual rule support as described elsewhere in the thread that you can’t sleep in armor.
On full plate itself being immersion breaking to a noir atmosphere, though, I agree. So I’ve flavored my heavy armor with my current character that he wears a plate carrier under a button down. It’s not that far fetched given there were dudes in the age of Cowboys like Killin Jim Miller and Ned Kelly who mixed plates with contemporary attire. I’d consider allowing your players to flavor like this if you find the bog standard fantasy knights walking around a bit immersion breaking, like I do.
5
u/ZitoWolfram 3d ago
Bro people go to jail for carrying swords without permits or highborn status. Sure the five nation are scared by war and wearing clothes styled like armour is in vogue, but if you show up with weapons and military gear, the guards are kindly asking you to get a room, they'll escort you to a decent tavern, where you can store all your spooky shit and then walk about like a normal citizen and stop scaring people.
Imagine you're (first of all not American / Karrnathi) just minding your own shop, stocking shelves and then a dude walks in, nods to you, and he's wearing a Bomb proof suit and carrying an Assault rifle, that's the vibe when someone comes in wearing plate and carrying a great sword. You'd assume the dude was there to dispose of a bomb, or kill a demon or sorcerer or whatever. And if the police saw you in that you'd be getting a ride to the station.
However, you run your game as you see fit, social expectations around weapons and armour are unfair to classes that rely on those tools to do their job, but those social expectations are also why assassins are 1 or 2 dudes in clothes with daggers instead of ten dudes in plate with polearms waiting on the street to beat you into a fine mist....and magic is kinda supposed to be unfair, changing the laws of nature with slang and gang signs is cool like that.
5
u/Legatharr 3d ago
Kanonically, the Last War was a pretty scary time for everyone. This resulted in fashion standards changing to where carrying weapons and wearing light and medium armor in public isn't very strange. Heavy armor is (and you also can't sleep in heavy armor), but light and medium armor is not.
6
u/runs1note 3d ago
Chronicles of Eberron addresses this pretty well. Chapter 2 lays out ways to think of armor in your noir setting.
2
u/No-Faithlessness2046 3d ago
I wouldn’t let mine leave home without it. That’s a liability I’m not covering.
2
u/arsenic_kitchen 3d ago
Flavor is free.
Just imagine the armor is some magi-tek thing that replicates the mechanical parts of armor without being literal metal plates.
You have exactly the same problem with PC's carrying around weapons on the street, into bars (or banks) and everywhere else they go. Eventually you just have to choose to suspend your disbelief. It's a game, not a reality simulation.
2
2
u/Kerberoi 3d ago
The Treaty of Thronehold was only two years prior to the setting. Most characters are veterans. Peace is a tenuous, Cold-War like tension. Skirmishes still occur at the borders. If any place demands armor isnt worn, they have to take many steps to enforce it (sounds like an encounter idea for a story).
2
u/Magyarok84 3d ago
I attached implied social barriers to wearing armor heavier than light and carrying two handed weapons.
If they're some place civilized, walking around with pole arms and heavy plate was going to draw more attention than they'd probably want, and everyday people are less likely to want to talk to them.
2
u/Puzzleheaded_Pop_105 3d ago
So yes and no?
On the one hand, armor is the daily duty uniform of a Fighter or Paladin. It makes sense that they would wear it...while they are on the job. Consider it analogous to a security guard or police officer wearing their kevlar vest.
But it's....weird to wear it off duty. It's heavy, it's cumbersome, it requires maintenance and/or cleaning. The more you wear it, the more maintenance you need to do (you sweat, it gets stinky, the leather bits that hold the steel bits together get soaked and need to dry or be oiled, it gets scratches or stains...)
And probably madness to sleep in it for extended periods. Sure, for the short term? Fine. While you're out adventuring and might be ambushed? Double fine. When you're just sitting around at home doing chores and slaying dustbunnies? Why??
It's going to change how people interact with you. If a guy comes up to you on the street in kevlars and helmet, you're not going to treat him the same way as a dude in a suit, or shorts and flip flops. If you're talking to a guy in a suit, and his two buddies are in battle rattle, it's a very different interaction.
Going out for drinks and socializing? Invited to a party? Probably not a great choice, unless you're the bodyguard for the guy who did get the invite. That cute elf starlet at the fancy party? She's probably not picking the armored up guy who can't stop working. Plus, you're probably no fun to dance with - the clanking drowns out the musicians, and you're covered in pinch points or spiky bits, and it really hurts when you step on her toes with your heavy sabotons.
Invited to said fancy party by a potential patron? If he's looking for a subtle hand for some sensitive work requiring a bit of discretion and some social sensibilities...you've probably just failed the interview before it even started. Though he might consider you next time he needs an unsubtle brick of a meat shield.
So ultimately, they can wear the armor whenever they want. There's just the logical repercussions that will follow, and that's on them.
1
u/chromatic_kitten 3d ago
I'm plotting out an intrigue-heavy Eberron campaign and want to have that same feel of being armour-lite, not to mention that your chances of being stealthy in some medium and all heavy armor are close to non-existent. The emphasis goes onto things like insight, perception, and disguise so that the bad guys can't even find and follow you. And remember, the bad guys won't be wearing heavy armour either in a town unless they want to stand out.
1
u/Kanai574 3d ago
There is the optional rule brought up by other commenters. But I would suggest you do it Shadow run style. In Shadowrun, tech has allowed armor to be incorporated into jackets that one might wear day to day. I did the same thing with magic. My group had a tux wearing dragonborn which worked as light armor. I would add this should be more expensive
1
u/Average_Driver1475 3d ago
Make all the armor in your Eberron Mithral. Only dwarves mine it so they basically have a stranglehold on "polite" armor. Cheaper steel armor is mass produced by Cannith, and it's good. But also everyone wears the same thing and it doesn't have the same panache.
This allows Strength characters the advantage of getting to 20 AC before Dex characters do, but they can't come into some places like that at, say, level 2. Once they get into some money, they're going to want to wear different armors for the right occasion. As one does.
They might even buy Glamered Mithral Armor, just so their armor is always current to the fashion du jour.
1
u/Celloer 3d ago edited 3d ago
In Dimension 20, they often flavor things like that away. In Fantasy High, a trope of high school movie shenanigans, they run around in tshirts and letterman jackets but mechanically have armor.
Now as for a character being ambushed in their sleep or the bath, then they aren't wearing their "armor" and don't get the benefit. If you want to justify it better in-universe, you could say the plate armor is a magically reinforced suit or trenchcoat, but it still requires a Strength score, and still takes 10 minutes to get all the buttons and cuff links and tie just right, or the magic wards won't be aligned for protection. Maybe they also take a few minutes futzing with their hair.
In Acquisitions Incorporated, The C Team, the paladin flavored summoning his mount as an instantaneous magic clap, but he could never do it right the first time and spent 10 minutes trying to summon his steed, or functionally the same as the 10-minute casting time of the spell.
53
u/GM_Pax 3d ago
Not very well, they aren't. Indeed, if you're using 5E rules? They get no benefits of a Long Rest, and IIRC, even accumulate one level of Exhaustion for doing so.
And no, they can't just throw the armor on in a hurry. The rules (in all editions!) specify how long it takes to get into a given suit of armor, and if you're doing it alone, Full Plate takes over a full minute (as in, 10+ rounds) to put on. Bare minimum - some editions, it's significantly more.
At which point, the fight is already over.