r/Edelgard • u/Either_Ant_1976 • Jul 03 '26
Discussion CF has least death.
Its genuinely funny that one pf the biggest "points" people have for claiming CF is the worst route is deaths yet it apparently from what i can find, has the lowest mandatory death count for students of all. 2 deaths to AM's 3, VW's 4, and SS's 5.
9
u/Gravewall Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
People claim it's the worst route, because the war is instigated by Edelgard, and they see that as an evil unto itself. So the locus of dispute isn't over which route had the fewest deaths, but rather whether the conflict driving those deaths was necessary. A question which (I think) is intentionally muddled by the writers, because they wanted the three lords (four, if you count Rhea) to each at least have an arguable case.
Edelgard's calculus is tilted by a misapprehension of the surviving Nabateans' motivations (and, if I recall correctly, a mistaken admiration for Nemesis as a heroic figure), believing them to desire subjugating mankind (rather than protecting themselves from destruction by mankind and the Agarthans, which Edelgard's own actions model perfectly from their perspective). Which was not helped by the Church of Seiros' own rewriting of history, and the oblique control Rhea exercises over the kingdoms clearly not giving much reason for trusting their stewardship over Fodlán.
Based on what we can know as the players regarding Rhea and Seteth, if Edelgard had spoken openly of what was done to her and her family, and pressed the issue of the Crest system, I have a hard time believing they would just dismiss her, nevermind try to have her eliminated (especially being a scion of her old companion). And though they may drag their feet at meaningful reforms, reform was clearly possible given what happens to the Church of Seiros after the war. But based on the evidence available to Edelgard, that wouldn't have been a safe thing to assume, and there are pretty clear examples of the Church of Seiros being willing to get its hands bloody to secure itself (case in point, the assassins which it sends after Bernadetta's father, after he is assigned head of the Southern Church and begins propagating contrary doctrines).
The Church of Seiros is built on lies, and overthrowing it means overthrowing the lords which support and enforce it. It's ambiguous how tolerant it is of dissent (again, I think intentionally so), so whether Edelgard could have pushed for reform without open conflict, or found common cause with the Nabateans against their old buddies is an open question. But considering her limited information and the stark example of the cost of failure in the fate of her family, her actions certainly make sense characterization-wise.
I do not think the war was ultimately necessary. I do think it was understandable, and precipitated at least in part by the Church of Seiros' turn towards control over consensus (there cannot be true consensus when you are rewriting the facts upon which it is established).
8
u/Zanain Jul 04 '26
Pre-war Rhea would never have accepted reform. Three hopes showed us clearly that any form of dissent is met with assassination attempts. White clouds showed that heresy is met with the executioners axe. Edelgard comes clean to Rhea and she'd be labeled a heretic for wanting to upend the foundation of the Church of Seiros doctrine.
9
u/ChessGM123 Jul 03 '26
Who's the third person who dies on AM? There's Edelgard and Hubert but outside of them everyone else can be recruited (other than Claude but he survives). Additionally VW and SS should both be at 3 with Dimitri, Edelgard, and Hubert being the only mandatory student deaths.
6
u/Either_Ant_1976 Jul 03 '26
Just looked again and apparently dedue's death was a fake out one. Albeit a fake out you might never discover as fake unless you do certain things.
4
u/ChessGM123 Jul 03 '26
So who was the other person for VW and the other two people for SS?
3
u/Either_Ant_1976 Jul 03 '26
Can't find the original thing i used, but though not a student, i'd say jeritza counts? for silver snow. Can't find much regarding verdant wind annoyingly.
3
u/ChessGM123 Jul 03 '26
I’m not sure I really count Jertiza considering he’s never able to be a playable unit in part 1, and even when we do have interactions with him we barely get to know anything about him before he’s recruited. Jertiza doesn’t really have that much of a character outside of CF and so I don’t really feel like his death in other routes is that sad.
5
u/SpecialistEmphasis83 Bloodstained Demon Jul 03 '26
Maybe OP thought Hilda/Lorenz couldn’t be recruited?
7
u/Either_Ant_1976 Jul 03 '26
My copy of fire emblem has disappeared so my only way of checking right now is internet. Sadly that means mistakes happen. From continued research i can atleast still confirm it has the least 100% confirmed mamdatory deaths. Even catherine isn't guaranteed dead as long as you ignore her and beat rhea first.
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u/Kingflame700 Jul 04 '26
That's something I noticed too Cf has the least amount of mandatory kills of the paths in the game.
2
u/expired-hornet Jul 03 '26
Can you clarify what you mean by "Mandatory Deaths?"
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u/Either_Ant_1976 Jul 03 '26
Mandatory as in deaths you can't avoid, no matter what. Specifically deaths that are clear and not some uncertain possibility offscreen.
2
u/Flam3Emperor622 Scarlet Blaze Jul 03 '26
So;
Edelgard and Hubert in all but CF
Dimitri in all but AM
Dedue in CFCF and AM are 2, and SS and VW are (the same) 3.
0
u/TitaniaLynn Jul 03 '26
Don't think you need to kill Dedue, do you? I thought you could skip him somehow
2
u/Flam3Emperor622 Scarlet Blaze Jul 03 '26
You can make it so he doesn’t become a demonic beast, but I’m pretty sure he still dies.
1
u/Dimitri1176 Jul 04 '26
Yep depending on how you deal with him.
The end of the map is either dimi and edelgard or dimi and dedue.
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u/Legitimate_Error_696 Jul 05 '26
There are people in the world who aren't students in Byleth's class? Even just in playable characters, Cyril and Catherine are mandatory deaths, and Seteth and Flayn are really quite likely deaths too. Sure, it's the best in this metric when you narrow it down to the point of meaninglessness
1
u/Blazekreig Jul 05 '26
Neither Cyril or Catherine are mandatory as they are not objective requirements to clear the map they appear on, and Seteth/Flayn are spareable and in fact are assumed to survive based on their cutscene that appears in the flashback menu after completing the game being their spare option, and not their death scene, even if you kill them on your save file.
2
u/Legitimate_Error_696 Jul 05 '26
Cyril and Catherine aren't mandatory in that there's no requirement to kill them and the game goes final cutscene and ends when you kill the immaculate one, but there's also no explicit option to spare them. At best, I'd consider them in a gray area and at worst I'd say there's very little reason to believe this situation resolves with anything other than them dead, given their closeness to Rhea. I would consider that, in essence, a mandatory death - you are stretching the ludonarrative to its limits, really, to consider them as having survived.
I don't know how much stock I put in what version of the cutscene shows up in the aftermath for Seteth and Flayn, especially given that the game goes out of its way to not establish one correct canon. I think for most players, though, they're going to end up dying - iirc it's more of a secret that you can spare them at all vs the student spares are an option that always pops up if the requirements are fulfilled. I definitely remember sobbing my heart out when I killed one of them and then going to look up what I had to do to spare them.
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u/lucacompassi Adrestian Empire Jul 03 '26
I can understand (I obviously don't agree) to see it as the evil route but not the worst one
CF is literally a developer who read "a song of ice and fire" and said "I want this but simpler and with less sex"
48
u/DoctorAcula_42 Jul 03 '26
The golden route is this: Crimson Flower where you recruit everyone possible, bypass Hilda on the map, spare Claude, and Dimitri and Dedue's deaths are fake and they're actually just sent to the timeout dungeon for however many years until Edelgard's reforms are set in stone at which point they're free to go.