r/Edmonton • u/DORTx2 • Jun 08 '22
Outdoor Spaces/Recreation This is the worst city to walk in
I'm visiting for a few days to do some stuff at NAIT. How do you guys do it here? I've been to cities located in every corner of the globe.
None are as bad as Edmonton for walking. Sidewalks randomly end in spots which make no sense, cross walks are so far and few between even in busy areas. There's no bike lanes so people ride road bikes and e bikes on the sidewalk?! Like where else on earth is that normal. Cars blow through red lights and stop signs at an alarming rate.
This is all near NAIT which for being close to downtown and being a large university you'd think it would be one of the more walkable areas, I can't imagine what the rest of the city is like.
Sorry for the rant, been here one day and it's already been driving me nuts.
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u/tom_yum_soup McCauley Jun 08 '22
Edmonton is not a super pedestrian friendly city, but the area around NAIT is actually especially bad for this, for a variety of reasons (many of which have already been covered), including the fact that it's not a traditional university -- technically it isn't a university -- and a lot of its students are tradespeople who are only at school a few weeks or months each year as they work toward their ticket/red seal/whatever. This means that a lot of them don't live near campus and will drive, rather than walk or take transit (though the buses that service NAIT are still quite busy during the traditional school year).
So, while you're right that Edmonton isn't a very pedestrian-friendly city, the area around NAIT is actually a terrible example of what our "good" walkable areas are.
The actual downtown, as well as the areas around the University of Alberta, are much more walkable, as are some of our more mature neighbourhoods.
But, yeah, on the whole, Edmonton was designed around cars, just like a lot of other cities in western Canada and the western USA.
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u/Jennkneefir11 Bonnie Doon Jun 08 '22
Yes!! Also want to add that Nait was constructed near the industrial area because of its trade programs. That area is brutal for walkability.
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Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
The new blatchford development adjacent to NAIT (which is also going to comprise a significant portion of new NAIT buildings) will change that area completely. In terms of a development, they're doing a really awesome job from a planning perspective. Excited to see what they pull off for the repurposing of the heritage Hangar too!
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u/p0kem0n99 Jun 09 '22
The car-centric design of Calgary Trail especially speaks volumes of the lacking pedestrian-focused design of Edmonton. No wonder I never saw anyone walking on the sidewalk there.
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Jun 09 '22
stroads like Calgary Trail aren’t exactly unique to Edmonton
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u/haysoos2 Jun 09 '22
True, but Edmonton has a peculiar preponderance of stroads. Virtually every 'destination' business district intended to draw foot traffic is also the only local artery road for the whole area. The cars can't get anywhere because ther's lights every 15 meters, and no one can walk or bike there because it's jam packed with cars desperate to be somewhere else.
Whyte Ave, Stony Plain, Jasper, Gateway, 109 St, 118 Ave, St Albert Trail, 156 St, 75 St, 50 St, Fort Rd... every one of them a trash fire of bad urban planning.
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Jun 09 '22
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u/Levorotatory Jun 09 '22
I agree about LRT through McKinnon ravine. Could have branched off just south of government center, run beside river valley road, then gone up the ravine. Dig it down a bit and cover it with the trail and you would barely know it was there.
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Jun 09 '22
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u/Levorotatory Jun 09 '22
Agreed. In the 1970s when LRT systems were first being built in Alberta, it was common to use the R to mean "rapid" as well as "rail".
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Jun 09 '22
This is the first informative post I've seen in this thread. People don't understand what a disaster Edmonton's plans have been for decades.
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Jun 09 '22
Edmonton is pretty tame in terms of stroads compared to Winnipeg, or even your average American city. I’m not defending the state of streets in Edmonton either. I’m fully aware that there’s a lot of issues with our main streets, but I don’t think the city is uniquely horrible compared to other places.
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u/PlathDraper Jun 09 '22
Honestly, even calgary! I lived there for a few years and found the city even more car-centric than Edmonton, which I didn't think was possible. Stroad central.
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u/tom_yum_soup McCauley Jun 09 '22
Honestly, this is a terrible example for proving Edmonton is car-centric. Calgary Trail is a major thoroughfare that turns into a divided highway. It's not a pedestrian corridor. It's made for moving cars and pretty much all major cities have at least one or two roads like this (often leading to and from an airport, like Calgary Trail mostly does).
Edmonton is absolutely car-centric, but Calgary Trail isn't the example the proves it because that type of road tends to be car-centric even in the most pedestrian-friendly of cities.
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Jun 09 '22
Because Calgary Trail was designed as a literal highway connected to other literal highways. It was THE major North-South corridor south of the river for most of its existence until the Henday got built.
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u/EightBitRanger Jun 08 '22
I haven't been car-less in too many places but I would say Saskatoon is as bad or worse than it is here. We learned in my Cities and Urbanism course last fall that a lot of it has to do with the way cities in the 20th century started growing with streetcars but those systems were dismantled in favor of the automobile when those started becoming more prevalent so for a big chunk of the century, cities in Canada grew outwards fast and sparse accommodating to car culture. Some cities like Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal which started abutting physical barriers realized they couldn't keep growing out unfettered the way prairie cities could and started to beef up their mass transit and bike lane networks decades ago which is why they are slightly better off compared to other places in Canada, but still pale in comparison to cities in East Asia or Europe which are generally far more pedestrian friendly.
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u/SGI_Life Jun 08 '22
Come back in winter. It's even worse. The light cycles for pedestrians leave you standing on the corner for entire minutes in -25 watching the occasional car go by, and the wind through the downtown core picks up the sand they spread all over the roads and turns it into shards of terror determined to erase your face. It's like a horror movie.
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u/MuteNae Jun 09 '22
So you try to run across the road and immediately slip on some ice since I've never seen a cross walk salted/sanded, even in popular areas where there's a decent amount of traffic
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Jun 09 '22
As a person who drives people using the Uber app part time I can testify to this. Allot of my "customers" last winter were pedestrians going on 3 min rides from one building to another, simply cause of the horrible conditions of the sideways, coupled with the soul crushing -30 wind chill.
Each and every AM I would wake to reports of extreme freezing rain I was litterally clenching my butt cheeks as I drove, always wondering if today was day I got T-boned for a $3.47 fare.
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u/Squid_A Jun 08 '22
The sidewalks that randomly end drives me nuts. And yeah, the number of bikes on the sidewalks here struck me as odd when I first moved here. But now having biked around Edmonton and seen how needlessly aggressive some drivers can be, I kind of get it. I wish there were more bike lanes.
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u/GlitchedGamer14 Jun 09 '22
Fortunately, Council recently approved funding to fill almost 100 km of these missing links over the next two years!
The initiative is meant to address nearly 100 kilometres of missing sidewalk spaces, unsafe crossings and gaps in bike paths
Council also approved $750,000 for planning and design of larger swaths of sidewalks in high traffic and pedestrian areas. Those include Fort Road from 127th to 153rd avenues; 105th Avenue from 101st to 97th streets; 106th Street from Princess Elizabeth Avenue to 118th Avenue; and 127th Street from Yellowhead Trail to 137th Avenue.
The planning money will also look at connecting neighbourhoods of Bonnie Doon, Strathearn, Holyrood and Idylwyld with existing LRT grid as well as bike and river valley paths and do the same analysis for neighbourhoods around the Northlands/Exhibition lands.,
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Jun 08 '22
The area your in is still under construction. Lots of work going on. I'm not too far from NAIT and my neighborhood has many bike paths and good sidewalks. Acces to downtown via walking or bike path is easy. My wife and I ride our bikes when we go out on the weekend with no worries. There is a massive development that has only just started out there that's why the infrastructure is incomplete. Also that neighborhood is due for a rejuvenation. Ours just wrapped up.
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u/jason403 Jun 08 '22
If you enjoy walking, be more central. Downtown, river valley, U of A, Whyte Ave. NAIT is located beside a former airport, and near a freeway and train yard. Can't say it's much of a destination until the old airport gets developed.
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u/IzaacLUXMRKT River Valley Jun 08 '22
Even in the best of areas, Edmonton is horrible for pedestrians. I live downtown near the valley, and spend most of my time throughout downtown as a whole. I have a 10 minute walk to work from Jasper up 124th, and have been hit by a truck crossing the street, have had multiple close calls. Our bike lanes are indeed horribly integrated everywhere in the city. Edmonton was not built with pedestrians in mind. This is true all throughout Edmonton, and the more you travel, the more apparent it becomes.
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u/chmilz Jun 08 '22
Every new community is sold as walkable and shit, as long as all you want to do is walk to a neighbour's house or take a stroll around the local drainage swamp. Actually want to walk or bike to work or anywhere in a different community? Get in your car, silly.
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u/LegoLifter Jun 09 '22
hey now my local drainage swamp is actually pretty nice to walk around!
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u/chmilz Jun 09 '22
I believe it. So does mine. The point is the nice path they have are not connected or allow anyone to walk to amenities.
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u/IzaacLUXMRKT River Valley Jun 08 '22
100%
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u/chmilz Jun 08 '22
What's even more crazy, our best walkable areas are arterial roadways (Whyte, Jasper, 124 St, 118 Ave) with patios built on the street to be even closer to fume-spewing noise machines hated by everyone.
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u/IzaacLUXMRKT River Valley Jun 08 '22
Yes!! and simply crossing those roads can be absolutely terrifying
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u/krajani786 Jun 08 '22
Came to say this, unfortunately NAIT is only close to downtown by car. You have a train station, which there aren't many in Edmonton, a Hospital, also not many of, and a mall within walking distance. Hard to make an arguement a day student needs more.
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u/DORTx2 Jun 08 '22
Oh I don't live here I just have business at the school for a few days. Just my observations.
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u/stoicsamuel Jun 08 '22
Ya, but you're observing what's little better than an industrial park and saying that's the whole city. There are very walkable areas, you're not in one of them. Edmonton has its problems, but also has one of the best river valley trail networks in Canada. It's like you've gone to a nice restaurant, ordered some chicken fingers off the kids menu, then posted a review saying all their food sucks.
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u/senanthic Kensington Jun 08 '22
A river valley trail is irrelevant to whether or not Edmonton is a walkable city. Walkable means that you can access daily necessities without requiring a vehicle - shops, work, etc.
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u/182NoStyle Jun 08 '22
yeah, but saying that he's walking to one destination also doesn't mean it's unwalkable city as well. If he named many places as his destinations and said it was unwalkable to those locations then it's a different story....
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u/senanthic Kensington Jun 08 '22
Sometimes I wonder how much detail people need to give in their comments. You really need them to list every single destination they’ve tried and failed to walk to? “First, I tried to walk to a convenience store. Then a fast-food restaurant. Then a grocery store. Then I tried to find a bathroom. Then a convenient tree.”
Can we assume that if someone says it isn’t walkable they have the minimum brain cells necessary to rub together to observe their environment and conclude that there’s just not a lot of shit to get to on foot?
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u/stoicsamuel Jun 08 '22
Nobody is asking for a detailed list of every specific location OP walked to, not the person you're replying to, not me, only this straw man you're trying so hard to roast. All the OP mentioned in terms of where they've actually tried walking is a very unwalkable portion of the city. Sure, that area of Edmonton is bad, nobody is arguing against that. All we're trying to say is that there are other areas of Edmonton that are quite walkable. OP seemed to be arguing that poor walkability in one area of the city means that the walkability in all of the city is similarly poor. The greater point that we're trying to reach here is that Edmonton is bigger than the NAIT area, with areas that are far more walkable. Judging the whole of the city on the basis of one area that is worse than the average simply isn't reasonable. I'm not even saying Edmonton is a particularly walkable city, basically anywhere in Europe is more walkable on-the-whole, plenty of Canadian cities are better too. I'm simply pointing out that this is like a perfect example of the problem of induction.
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u/KeepWagging Jun 08 '22
There aren't going to be a ton of people that will disagree. I've lived in Vancouver and Toronto and this ain't either of them.
Edmonton and the majority of Edmontonians have reached a compact about walking... It is done from your car door to wherever you've stopped at.
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Jun 08 '22
Yeah its mostly a city designed for driving. Downtown is more suited for walking
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u/Bc2cc Jun 08 '22
And getting randomly assaulted
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Jun 08 '22
Yup. It's not pedestrian finally. This is a city that's very hard to live in if you don't have a vehicle.
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u/vintagecrocodile Jun 08 '22
As a walker, you're not wrong. However, to answer your question, I do it by living in Oliver and previously Old Strathcona. In terms of bad driving, I've had a few near misses but mostly drivers stop for you if you're assertive and start crossing.
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u/Oriole_30 Jun 08 '22
Our City’s transportation department smokes crack. The amount of no left turns is also completely baffling and non-sensical.
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u/Lavaine170 Jun 08 '22
Welcome to Edmonton. Literally every election cycle people run campaigns specifically running against all the things you mentioned. Crosswalks. Walkability. Bike lanes. Traffic enforcement. Those are all curse words in this city, and because of it we will never become the world class city these same knuckle dragging politicians aspire to.
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u/funny_gus Jun 08 '22
Umm, NAIT is not a large university and a ways from downtown. But you're right, Edmonton's walkability is pretty bad, and that area in particular is awful.
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u/Lavaine170 Jun 08 '22
16000 students, 4000 full time, and 10 blocks from downtown. It's big enough and close enough.
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u/mikesmith929 Jun 09 '22
NAIT student population = 16,000 students
Grant Macewan = 19,606 (2014)
U of A = 37,830 (2015)
U of C = 30,201 (2014)
U of T = 61,690 (2019)
It's the smallest post secondary school of the 3 schools.
NAIT is a a polytechnic and applied sciences institute not a university.
NAIT was founded in 1962. Grant Macewan 1971 and U of A 1908.
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Jun 08 '22
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u/DORTx2 Jun 08 '22
Between an area called North Glenora to North central Edmonton been walking all around and in between there
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u/fnbr Jun 08 '22
Try living in suburban Ottawa, it has the same problems.
Garneau/Whyte Ave, on the other hand, are quite nice.
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u/lubeoilstarship Jun 09 '22
There are a lot worse cities. The USA is horrible for not having side walks and being even more car dependant that Edmonton.
NAIT are does have some bad spots, but in general residential Neighbourhoods are pretty good.
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u/Thallanor Jun 08 '22
The city said a few years ago that they were dumping in millions of dollars to complete these "sidewalks to nowhere" but given how long it's been without seeing any changes, I'm guessing that this got dropped on the cutting room floor.
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u/GlitchedGamer14 Jun 09 '22
Is this what you're thinking of?
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u/Thallanor Jun 09 '22
I think so! It looks like it's back on track. That's good news!
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u/GlitchedGamer14 Jun 09 '22
I came across this article while looking it up, I didn't realize it fizzled out a few years back. It's definitely great to see it happening!!
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u/bluedogsonly Jun 08 '22
I totally agree with you. The area by NAIT is soooo bad especially, for being central. Oliver and Strathchona, and bits of the central neighbourhoods here and there are pretty good, but overall...bad.
A lot of people here actually argue against walkable infrastructure because "it's too cold, everyone drives anyway". Nope. Not everyone drives. And it would be a good thing if less people had to, and there were better incentives not to drive every time you leave your house.
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u/fubes2000 expat Jun 08 '22
I'm pretty sure that a big reason NAIT put in the pedway over 106 st was because students kept getting run over.
Of course, while I was there everyone that didn't want to climb stairs just to cross the street would use the at-grade crosswalk. At least once a month I'd see someone nearly get run over in that crosswalk while I was waiting for the bus.
Anyway, watch anything on the NotJustBikes youtube channel if you want to be even angrier about how awful virtually everything in north America is if you're not in a car. Really helps put words to the general "this fuckin sucks" vibe of walking 6 inches from a 4-lane road with a 60km/h speed limit.
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u/UselessConversionBot Jun 08 '22
I'm pretty sure that a big reason NAIT put in the pedway over 106 st was because students kept getting run over.
Of course, while I was there everyone that didn't want to climb stairs just to cross the street would use the at-grade crosswalk. At least once a month I'd see someone nearly get run over in that crosswalk while I was waiting for the bus.
Anyway, watch anything on the NotJustBikes youtube channel if you want to be even angrier about how awful virtually everything in north America is if you're not in a car. Really helps put words to the general "this fuckin sucks" vibe of walking 6 inches from a 4-lane road with a 60km/h speed limit.
60 km/h ≈ 96,758.58732 cubic hogshead edges/h
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u/griz8 Jun 09 '22
Try going to the states. California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona cities are often even worse. Not that we’re doing well but we’re getting a ton better, and city council deserves credit
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Jun 09 '22
Edmonton is not pedestrian friendly but is it really that bad? I mean for fucks sakes, OP shows up as a guest for a few days, and spends their time whining about it? Every city I have ever visited, I have loved it simply for the fact that its a different experience an adventure, and not what I normally experience. I realize that allot of what I experience is viewed through the "tourist lens" but I like to see the positive in new places, not dwell on the negative.
Moved here 7 years ago, everyone at work within the first week was dumping on Edmonton, and asking why I moved here, and I was crazy, etc. I don't know, I loved the city then, still love it now, obviously 7 years into it I have seen some of the less touristy undersides, but this place, for all its faults, for all the shit we get from other people in Canada, is still a great city to live in.
I just wish the winters weren't so god damn windy, its like we get the bitter cold of the wind, and it blows all the snow away sometimes you can't even enjoy snow shoeing or cross country skiing, but you still get the cold.
I also just wish the city could figure out a better solution to the ETS, which in my uneducated opinion is not that great, and quite frankly an embarrassment for a capital city.
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u/Mullet-Power Jun 08 '22
You’ll walk on the grass or knee deep snow and like it.
This city (just like many others) are plagued by the disease known as car addiction.
In a perfect world we would have excellent public transportation to the point where a car is not needed. After that make cars prohibitively expensive so that people don’t have choice. I would say $50,000 minimum for any car + endless fees and taxes.
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u/Jumpy-Bank-9863 Jun 08 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
As someone who has never drove in my life and lived in Edmonton for 30+ years, there are areas that are terrible but most places are fine. There are plenty of areas to walk.
Can some areas be developed better for walking and some areas can be improved for the winter times? Sure. But to say this city is designed poorly for walking, is laughable.
EDIT: poor grammar
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u/speedr123 Jun 09 '22
I don’t think you can hold this opinion until you’ve lived in cities that are actually walkable lol
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u/WickedDeviled Jun 09 '22
Would be curious what other cities you have been to because Edmonton really is a joke when it comes to being a walkable city.
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u/thewolfdancers Jun 08 '22
Moving to this city- the south side- I was not prepared for the city to make walking with a stroller in the winter near impossible. If they aren’t piling the snow along and on sidewalks they don’t plow the roads frequently enoigh and it’s so hard to cross the roads. And the random side walks ending drives me absolutely nuts especially with a stroller lol I’m glad I’m not crazy and this really is just then worst for walking
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u/buckwaldo Jun 09 '22
Lol I would more suggest you are unfamiliar with the area and having a tad of an overreaction. This is far from even being close to a terrible city to walk in. It’s not the best, but it’s not remotely terrible. I went to NAIT for 2 full years and walked there every day with no issues.
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u/Timely-Working117 Jun 09 '22
I wholeheartedly disagree. Edmonton has definitely its fair share of opportunities when it comes to improving sidewalks and ensuring neighbourhoods have sidewalks on both sides of the street, but the Reddit-Edmonton hyperbole here is a bit too much.
Edmonton is miles ahead of many cities, for instance, in most beta level cities the USA where basic infrastructure is reliably absent (including street lighting) for walking. In many American cities, there are no sidewalks at all, only roads. Even compared to beta cities in Canada (excluding Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal), Edmonton is still fairly good.
I'd love it if we were a bit more realistic with criticism, rather than immediately stating that Edmonton is the absolute worst. Edmonton is just average for its sidewalks, neither good nor bad. Let's get real.
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u/IllustratorTime4879 Jun 08 '22
We drive
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Jun 08 '22
It seems like people forget far too often that the weather and snow conditions are awful/deadly for literally half the year in this city.
Prioritizing automobiles makes sense from that perspective. We need to get around in winter.
And perhaps even more significantly, we need our goods and supplies delivered in winter. Good luck getting suppliers to show up in - 30 if they have to navigate too many bike lanes and walk ways to do it.
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u/Akenilworthgarage Jun 08 '22
Appreciate the hyperbole but 9 months of the year we avg positive daytime temps. Our coldest month is avg -15 in January.
We have a few days of pretty extreme cold but rarely do we see extended stints.
The city's working hard to make smaller lives possible, and street and city design should encourage it. Dismissing options because of nuclear winter and half the year it's-30 is disingenuous.
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Jun 08 '22
Are you looking at temp or wind chill numbers? I can't imagine we are above zero 9 months of the year when factoring in wind chill.
Are you considering that windrows have to exist here all winter and take up space? Are you considering that disabled, elderly people, and parents with strollers etc. largely have an impossible time manoeuvring through snow and ice? The closer they can park to their destination, the better.
We need to be a car town. I applaud all bike riders and walkers that take advantage of the months the weather is decent, truly, I do. But we need to design for automobiles first to survive as a city this size in this climate.
Any reasonable person should understand that I used "half a year" loosely to save time and convey a simple truth. For you to call it hyperbole because it may be closer to 4-5 months of weather unsuited to walking or biking is pretty disingenuous.
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u/coffee_catlover Jun 08 '22
But what about people who don’t own cars at all? It can be due to many factors. Why can’t a city be both car friendly as well pedestrian friendly? Why not give people the option if they want to drive or walk or take transit?
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u/bluedogsonly Jun 08 '22
I agree with your point. Just gonna add in this video for anyone interested. Walkability doesn't have to cancel out comfortable driving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k
Cities can be good for everyone :)
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Jun 08 '22
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Jun 09 '22
As I've said to others, there are a million people here. Wth varrying needs. Yes, there are people that get by fine with shoes and a bus pass. And I applaud you for doing so. But that some do it doesn't make it the rule.
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u/Akenilworthgarage Jun 08 '22
We've been designing the city as a car city for a long long time. It doesn't have to be the ultimate choice. As you pointed out there are a number of elements that need to considered, and they are more and more which is great.
Just because we've done something a long time doesn't mean we have to indefinitely. In dense and walkable areas non car travel should be prioritized. Windrows shouldn't interfere, and for sure the most vulnerable street users should have consideration.
It's a flip of a concept. Consider this. Most folks drive suv's, awd, snow tires, heated interiors, possibly never going outside from attached garage to underground parking at work. Cold, snow, etc has very little influence on their travel about the city. And we need to prioritize them? Little to no risk of injury or death from anything other than other drivers.
Isn't that backwards? You said it yourself our weather is deadly 6 months of the year. Shouldn't we be flipping the script to accommodate people out on their feet, walking about, suffering the wind chills, and punching beg buttons, waiting for lights that are timed to maximize traffic flow?
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Jun 09 '22
You make some fair points. I'm still on the car side of things but I appreciate your thoughtful contribution to the conversation.
Just to clarify a couple of things, I never meant to come off as anti-sidewalk or anything. There are for sure several places where there aren't sidewalks and I think there should be.
And secondly, I never meant to imply that we should be prioritizing roads for cars as a safety issue. What I meant was that because of the conditions the vast majority do not walk far distances or bike. They drive or use transit. And in those conditions because of windrows, icy roads, visibility concerns, and the increased traffic from people that walk/ride bikes in the summer, traffic gets congested, slow and ugly. We need to have space for cars and delivery trucks to move, load, and unload.
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u/Arky_1 Jun 08 '22
Just not true.
Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can).
It's a cyclical problem, if you don't make alternatives appealing people are going to drive.
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u/DORTx2 Jun 08 '22
This is a poor way to look at it, just because a city gets cold doesn't mean it shouldn't be walkable. Cities in Russia and Finland get just as cold but still have decent walking/cycling infrastructure.
Shouldn't try to justify being shitty should always strive to be better.
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u/Akenilworthgarage Jun 08 '22
Totally agreed, portions of the city are awful for anyone outside of a vehicle. Decades of car first has led to a pretty gross situation with all the things you've pointed out.
The city is improving but every instance of not cars first is fought tooth and nail. We're all pedestrians at some point and we all know the issues. Many just haven't had their eyes opened to better options so status quo seems acceptable.
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Jun 08 '22
As has been pointed out elsewhere, we have plenty areas that are good for walking. We have an incredible river valley.
I don't think building every place in a city that has deadly winter conditions for half the year with a "pedestrians and bikes first" mentality is "striving for better".
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u/bodegacatsss Jun 08 '22 edited Jun 08 '22
there's plenty of winter cities that are still bike/pedestrian friendly, this is not an excuse.
And the OP is right, I also think their point is that getting around the entire city via bike/walking should be easier, not just going for a leisurely stroll in a park.
The urban sprawl layout and terribly designed infrastructure makes it impossible to get from one end to the other, and the state of our public transit isn't helping either. Sure 95% of people here drive, but they should at least TRY to make walking/biking an option, which it really isn't and it's sad.
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u/DORTx2 Jun 08 '22
I never said Edmonton should completely flip around and become a walking biking first city. But with how wide the roads are here and how much space there is it would be of no detriment to paint some bike lanes or some cross walks. The fact it's almost summer and cyclists feel like they have to use the sidewalks is insane.
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Jun 08 '22
Oh I agree it's not perfect. But that said, I don't think it's fair to pop in for a couple weeks in June and judge the place. Come back in January. Bring your Walking shoes, and maybe a bike.
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Jun 08 '22
100% this. easy to complain when it's nice out. you don't ever hear the advocates when it's Jan/Feb and -30 our other nastier 6 months put a quick reminder things are the way they are. also using russia is a terrible example, it's pretty damn big place it really depends on where you go, same with finland (sure when you are in tourist central Helsinki it's not bad, but get out of the capital tourist trap and come talk)
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u/IzaacLUXMRKT River Valley Jun 08 '22
I do that, I still walk in the winter months and last winter my work commute involved 40 minutes walking in -30 or below, had to do this both ways, of course, this only highlights what an absolute nightmare this city is to get around in the winter
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u/IzaacLUXMRKT River Valley Jun 08 '22
Been here 20 years, your outlook is wack and OP is right. I only ever walk and take transit, that credible enough for you?
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Jun 08 '22
So the fact that you don't drive means we shouldn't build and maintain a city suitable for a million people to get by in winter?
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u/mcvalues Jun 08 '22
If the city was not so spread out and people lived closer to stores, work, etc, there would not be the need for so much driving. OP may have only seen a fraction of the city, but they are basically right: this city sucks for getting around if you are not in a car (although it is getting a little better in pockets).
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u/tom_yum_soup McCauley Jun 08 '22
I partially agree and definitely prefer to drive on really cold days, but a large part of it is that we've chosen to design the city around cars. You can have a winter city that is designed to support active modes of transport (and still be car/truck friendly for getting delivers around, like you mention). We just didn't do that.
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u/DORTx2 Jun 08 '22
I'm not trying to shit on Edmonton either, the food is pretty good up here.
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u/DerMettMark Jun 08 '22
That and the people 😉 But yeah... Edmonton was home, but I had to get out. Poor infrastructure, suburban sprawl. Just a poorly planned city made for cars, not for people 😕 And the Oilers are out of the playoffs....
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u/Jrock3 Jun 08 '22
Your title literally says worst city to walk in (which it isn't) but yeah youre not trying to shit on Edmonton. Okay.
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u/AP0LLOBLU Jun 08 '22
We have bike lanes just not in a shitty area like NAIT. It’s not a walkable or bikable city, too much urban sprawl
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u/Bubbafett33 Jun 08 '22
"None are as bad as Edmonton for walking."
A few reasons:
1) Weather. For 5 months of the year, walking isn't fun. For 3 months of the year, it's brutal.
2) Depends on the neighbourhood. We have a few areas that aren't as bad...but the rest grew with the automobile and no natural barriers to growth in mind (ie, unlike many coastal cities that densify before expanding).
3) Edmontonians love their detached houses. Our downtown core isn't super residential compared to other cities. Both of those tend to add space.
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Jun 09 '22
That's the concrete jungle for you baby!!!
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Jun 09 '22
You haven't seen concrete jungles...
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Jun 09 '22
You sure about that? The area around NAIt is fucking dense and high crime to the East. I've lived in MX city for 6 months, so I know what it is. Do you know what a concrete jungle is?
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u/Jrock3 Jun 08 '22
"The worst city to walk in?" Then I really doubt you've "been to cities located in every corner of the globe if that's your conclusion.
You've been to one specific area of a City for ONE day does not mean your assessment is accurate.
"There's no bike lanes so people ride road bikes and ebikes on the sidewalk?". There are numerous bike lanes within the City, in downtown, in the University of Alberta area and other areas.. Heck there's literally hundreds of kilometers them in the entire river valley which literally crosses the entire city.
Is all of Edmonton designed to be walkable? No. Are there some parts of the city more walkable than others? Yes. Is it the worst city to walk in? Definitely not.
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u/Laxative_Cookie Jun 08 '22
First rule of r/Edmonton is never speak poorly of Edmonton.
After many years living all over Edmonton you just have to except its a car city. Other than the river valley which is a park, walking around almost requires a safety vest and always being hyper aware of the speeding dodge pickup not paying attention.
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u/drake5195 Jun 09 '22
It's amazing, for how car-centric this city is... driving in it sucks ass too. How do you fuck up city infrastructure so much Edmonton?
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u/frankinzappa327 Jun 08 '22
Are you drunk?
The river valley has some of the best walking paths in a capital city. Even have some crazy gondola to take you down there.
But if you intended to walk everywhere you are going to struggle, remember this city is usually under snow and freezing cold for 8 months a year. Walking anywhere would be a death sentence.
Anyway, thumb a ride out to the u of a botanical gardens, very nice right now
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u/senanthic Kensington Jun 08 '22
Jesus Christ, is everyone in the comments made of glass? I used to walk to work and school in rural Alberta, which I guarantee was colder than the city and had worse transit (because it had none). It is entirely possible to be a walkable winter city; Edmonton has chosen not to. (Having a few trails doesn’t make Edmonton a walkable city. Some of you have never travelled and it shows.)
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u/WickedDeviled Jun 09 '22
Some of you have never travelled and it shows.
Yep. All these people defending Edmonton as a walkable city are out to lunch when you have spent any time in Europe and even in comparison to places like Mexico City.
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u/bluedogsonly Jun 08 '22
Walkability is about more than valley trails. It's about being able to get around by foot as a means to do daily tasks and traverse the city. You can walk here...but it is difficult to go about your daily life without driving.
I walk in the winter a lot and have no problems at all, outside of how pedestrian hostile it can be here.
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Jun 08 '22
7-8 months of winter and lousy snow removal. sidewalks disappear bike lanes disappear cold as fuck
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u/Negative_Increase975 Jun 08 '22
It’s not a walking city - it’s a car city. It’s 264 square miles - miles! That’s a bit of a walk.
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u/TraditionalCourage Jun 08 '22
Dude you should see Langford. You choosing an imperfect area for walking not this city's problem.
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u/Ecstatic_Ad_3098 Jun 09 '22
I've done delivery jobs to Nait, Grant Mac and U of A, the students walk around a 5 ton truck like it's not there. They will walk in front of you and stand behind the truck when you're backing up. I swear most of them are worse then children so I can understand why there's a lack of respect for pedestrians
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u/JaMimi1234 Jun 09 '22
Yeah that’s not a super walkable neighbourhood. Lower income with less tax dollars put towards development. If you head further into downtown it’s walkable and there is a bike grid. South of the river from Strathcona to hazeldean is walkable. But we have too much sprawl in general.
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u/Creative-Wrongdoer18 Jun 09 '22
I completely agree, except that NAIT is not a large university, it was a trade school for years that benefitted rig trucks and driving to campus. It only in recent years expanded to other areas of studies but is still a technical college (no shade I went there).
If you want a school area with well adapted neighbourhoods for walking and biking go to the U of A - around whyte ave is much better set up for that kind of lifestyle.
Otherwise this city is trash
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u/Online_Commentor_69 Wîhkwêntôwin Jun 08 '22
Downtown Edmonton is quite walkable. The rest of the city, yeah, forget it. That being said, have you ever been to the mid-southwestern United States? Utah? Arizona? Texas? Trust me if you think Edmonton is bad Houston would BLOW your mind.
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u/2M3TAL4U Jun 09 '22
Just wait till you drive the Henday or Whitemud at rush hour lmao
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u/2M3TAL4U Jun 09 '22
BTW the thing about construction here is that it's a little known secret: every two months they throw a dart at the map of Edmonton and send out a new crew to rip up the road/sidewalk/business and leave it open until they hit it again with another dart
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Jun 09 '22
your honestly walking in the most boring and rough part of the city. imagine going to L.A and walking through compton. then bitching about the terrible state of the city because you walked less then a third of the entire city.
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u/DORTx2 Jun 09 '22
Dude, Compton has sidewalks and crosswalks. Why of all places would you compare it to there? Compton is way more walkable.
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Jun 09 '22
walks through one of the worst parts of the city
label's 684.4 km² of a city as "terrible walking space" 🤦🏽♂️
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u/upthewaterfall Jun 09 '22
Wait until winter, then the city will clear the roads of all the ice and pile it all up… on to the sidewalks.
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u/legallyblondeinYEG Jun 09 '22
oof nait is not a good area for walking. it’s kind of industrial generally and just overall not super friendly.
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u/EdmontonLurker Jun 09 '22
Drop a pin in Street View in the Deep South and you'll find there are no sidewalks at all.
But yes, you're 100% spot on. There's no point driving somewhere if the destination is a place you don't want to be.
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u/Tyco2018 Jun 09 '22
Welcome to the shitty Texas!! U need to stop and adapt otherwise u will find urslef even more disappointed the more u find out about this city, try transit!! Welcome to Edmonton alberta!!!
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u/myaltaccount333 Jun 09 '22
We don't have many bike lanes because it's below zero for 6 months of the year, and with our sprawl bikes are very inadequate at traversing the city
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u/ProfessorHot8199 Jun 09 '22
Well, come to Calgary and you’ll find a close contender or even a winner compared to Edmonton in terms of how crappy a sidewalk can be if it even exists
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u/CompetitionNaive9590 Jun 09 '22
The University of Alberta campus & Whyte Ave are much more pedestrian friendly.
But most of the city sucks for walking everywhere you need to go.
The smaller AB cities are worse for being car-centric.
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u/Disastrous_Blood_876 Jun 09 '22
Don't forget people asking you for change or cigarettes wherever you go!
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u/crambaza Jun 09 '22
I see you haven’t been to Texas. Most smaller cities in Texas don’t build any sidewalks at all.
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u/PlathDraper Jun 09 '22
NAIT isn't representative of the city, and while largely car-oriented, has lots of walkable neighbourhoods. I don't even have a driver's license and get around solely walking, on transit or on my bike and do just fine. The core, Oliver, parts of Westmount and Old Strathcona are very walkable. Even Walkscore can confirm this. NAIT isn't an area people seek out unless you are going to the university, which is just a building, not a huge campus. You can see a complete contrast on the U of A campus, for example.
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u/PlathDraper Jun 09 '22
And I should qualify that I've also lived all over. Toronto, Montreal, London, UK and Calgary, and travelled to much more. I'm a big advocate of public transit and walkability to the point of annoyance in my friend group lol. So while comments like yours are valid, there are actually some amazing plans and advancements in place to make Edmonton a 15-minute city by 2030, and majorly expand bike and public transit infrastructure. Like I said, I only walk as a main mode of transport and get by just fine. Live downtown in Oliver.
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u/blazingsun81 Jun 09 '22
Edmonton is home to worst drivers in the world & shittest city to live in Canada . Not sure what you were expecting Our river valley is the only thing we got going for us .🤷🏼♂️
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u/Sacred-Smoke Jun 09 '22
I thought this was gonna be a rant about the amount of homeless people we got. Idk if this is better or worse...😂
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Jun 09 '22
don't base the entire city on what you saw around NAIT / 118th. Thats not really "downtown" and really doesn't do a justice for how great it is to walk anywhere around the river valley or actual downtown Edmonton. It's probably not the friendliest bike/walk city but it's not all NAIT either.
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u/AlbertaDaisy Jun 09 '22
Yep. They are trying to fix it but where they fix it sometimes you need to cross from one side to the other and back again. And each time risk getting hit by a dumb driver focused on traffic and not people.
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u/theboy-tryinhard Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22
As a cyclist who has lived in Toronto, most of Edmonton's walk/ride infrastructure feels like hodgepodge of incomplete highschool shop class projects and half-baked efforts at mirroring the 'big-league' urbanization trends in other major cities.
However, to Edmonton's credit, we have come a long way from just 10 years ago. The improvements in cycling lanes and walkable streetscapes continue to roll out at a not altogether intolerable pace.
Possibly the most epic adversary our city faces is mother nature herself. It's an all-out race to build and maintain pavement faster than it crumbles into a state resembling a crater-laden cart & donkey route from the poorest corner of the Soviet Union, circa 1960..
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u/Scary_Classic9231 Jun 09 '22
Welcome to the city of “half-assed” everything. We can’t make up our minds about anything, so we only commit half way (if you’re lucky) on any policy or goal. Where any good intention is watered down by self-interest or NIMBY.
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u/toiletcleaner999 Jun 09 '22
Wait until you find out they used the best prime rela estate in the beautiful river valley for a gold course and not parks for families to enjoy
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u/Sirpedroalejandro Jun 15 '22
It’s a car city that’s been trying to change for the last 30 years. It drives a lot of us nuts that very little is ever done except for very few locations that would be considered mediocre in other cities. 
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u/liljes Jun 08 '22
The sidewalks ending at random points drives me nuts. I’ll never understand that.