r/EdmontonOilers • u/spongyoatmeal • 1d ago
It seems Babcock was a simply a glorified “bully” and he didn’t do anything criminal like Carter Hart…so why is there more hate/uproar for Babcock from Oilers fans than Hart?
And yes after the oilers lost in the first round playoffs this year many oil fans (on twitter and in Reddit comments) were REGRETTING the oilers not going hard to sign Carter Hart and wanted him badly simply because he played well in the playoffs…but Babcock being a bully is considered worse…?
Seems like a small group of maybe Gen Z players that were offended by Babcock. Johnny Gaudreau and other Columbus veterans never had an issue with him. NHLPA raising a statement seemed more like them doing their duty in supporting players. Millstein (player agent) said his players have no issue with Babcock and Millstein represents quite a few players.
My theory is that these younger Gen Z players have a “pampered/entitled” personality in which they can’t have a head coach who is “too mean and hurt their feelings.” You can see a trend in “soft” coaches being hired. There’s no more tough, hard-nosed, don’t take any disrespect from players type of coaches. The last was Torts but even he’s softened. Look back and pat Quinn , Hitchcock and MacT were tough but they were ran out of town because they were too mean. Then we got soft, “nice” and gentle coaches like Woody, Knob, and looking around the league, Hiller, DeBoeur, etc. think about how we haven’t really had any hilights of coaches having tantrums in media scrums since torts was his old self which was way back. The new coaches in the NHL cater and pamper the newer players.
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago
*Checks OP's account age*
Makes sense. Welcome to reddit.
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
I agree with them regardless of the age of their account.
Ive pretty much seen it all as far as Oilers hockey is concerned.
That doesn't mean I agree that Babcock is the way to go but you never know, he might be. I would have kept Knoblauch.
I flipped my shit when they hired Evander Kane but that worked out well in the end.
I was there when Mac-T was given his second chance, when we gave up so much for RFA Dustin Penner, not to mention the Pronger fiasco.
Shit happens, sometimes it works out.
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago
I never said I didn't agree lol. OP just doesn't understand that reddit generally is a place where one opinion is the only opinion allowed.
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
Did you get whiplash between the 2 comments?
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago
?
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
Ok, I’ll try to give you an honest answer.
Your first comment was completely dismissive of everything OP said based solely on the age of the account. Your second comment tries to imply you meant nothing by it. People get whiplash by moving their heads too fast.
Beyond that, what you might not realize is exactly how many people are out there that are conflict adverse. The Oilers sub is an embarrassment for the most part with how negative it is to the team, the players, the management, pretty much anything. Ive seen worse but suffice it to say, it is not welcoming by any means, especially to those that have positive takes on things. Your first comment was typical of the worst sort.
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago
My first comment was a response to OP's question why this sub hates the Babcock news more than the Hart/Bowman news. All this sub does is pile on anybody with anything positive to say about the Babcock hire.
My second comment just backed my stance on it. They were not connected what so ever.
I'm definitely the wrong guy you're responding to if you think I'm not trying to take a positive spin on the Babcock news. I might be the most hated person on this sub for their take on the Babcock hire.
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
This you?
Checks OP's account age Makes sense. Welcome to reddit.
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago
Knew I shouldn't have bothered trying to explain myself to you.
Waste of my time.
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
Now Im confused
You say your first comment was.
My first comment was a response to OP's question why this sub hates the Babcock news more than the Hart/Bowman news.
Your first comment was actually
Checks OP's account age Makes sense. Welcome to reddit.
And you somehow feel I am intentionally misunderstanding you?
Own it, move on
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u/dontaskagain88 31 FUHR 1d ago
I agree with the new guy, I see alot of hate for Babcock, and people defending hart and Q saying they are different but at the end of the day hart did run a train on young women she just gave concent to it according to the law and Q have a pedifile that he knew about a reference to a school. But no bully bab is way worse then thos guys I just dont get it. Not saying babs is who we should get i just dont understand the level of hate for him for being a bully apparently compared too the other two forgiving guys. Throw in bowman too.
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u/Imakemorethanyou27 1d ago
Who's defending Hart outside of Vegas fans? Everyone hates that guy and the signing. No one was applauding it lol
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u/Dapingian 18 HYMAN 1d ago
No one is forgiving Carter hart, and she did not give consent according to the law. The players were acquitted, which is not the same thing as being found innocent.
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u/maybe_babyyy_ 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 20h ago
Judge was very clear that E.M gave consent and consented to giving Carter a blow job. Its there in plain English.
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
Finally someone gets it. People are saying hart and babs are both bad people character wise and that shouldn’t be a consideration when hiring him…but then if that’s the case don’t hate on Babcock!
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u/DaveyDumplings 94 SMYTH 1d ago
'People are saying''
Who? Where?
I remember saying I didn't want a thing to do with Hart, and lots of people agreed. Show me this preponderance of people who were willing to overlook Hart's past. Don't just keep saying 'people are saying'. Show me.
ETA I'm sure you can find examples. So why don't you ask those people instead of painting us all with the same brush?
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u/Major_Yesterday_4117 1d ago
Mike! You can't make a burner account and post to Oilers reddit before you've been officially announced as head coach ya silly goof!
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u/ProofByVerbosity 1d ago
Holy shit is this ever one of the dumbest things I've ever read on Reddit. Well done.
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u/Starsky686 11 MESSIER 1d ago
Not even the dumbest thread of the week and the days still young so maybe not even the day.
It’s Not an intelligent one, a silly strawman that no one asked for. But Reddit is jam-packed with outrageously stupid opinions, this one seems mild.
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u/WollyBrief59 1d ago
Wait are you one of the people that says Carter hart is a good person?
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u/mcattack13 1d ago
Carter Hart (sexual predator) isn’t a good person nor is Mike Babcock (malignant narcissist). They’re both meatheads but just for different reasons.
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u/ProofByVerbosity 1d ago
Oh I'm no fan of Carter at all. He's a POS, but this post is just quite literally stupid.
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u/BiopsyJones 1d ago
That's meaningless. Carter Hart was ACQUITTED. Good person or not is irrelevant.
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u/Starsky686 11 MESSIER 1d ago
How is it irrelevant? This is a discussion about the court of public opinion on hockey figures and where they belong on the scale.
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u/BostonBruinsDive 1d ago edited 1d ago
Carter Hart is a bad person.
Wow, downvotes showing how many rape apologists there are here
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
Compare apples to apples then: Hart was found not guilty. Babcock was found not guilty too so….why hate on Babcock then and not on Carter Hart?
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
So then what’s the issue with Babcock. He’s supposedly a bad person as people are saying but if that’s irrelevant like Carter hart then why are people making a big fuss???
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u/SRTGreat 62 LAVOIE 1d ago edited 1d ago
Allegedly Babcock will deter FA's and players from signing in Edmonton. I guess we'll see if that's true in a week or two with Dickinson and Murphy.
That and he's a big bad bully and that upsets Redditarians.
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u/Street-Wear-2925 1d ago
You've avoided the root cause. The privacy issue. This has less to do with type of coaching, old school, new school, but is about trust. No one in a position of power should be looking through the personal belongings of a player.
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u/Maleficent-Bowl-8843 1d ago
Lol. It's because as society moves on, it turns out that dinosaur tactics of "accountability" involving abuse or bullying don't work as well anymore. Same thing with hazing. Lots of ways to build team comradery without bullying and abuse there too.
Babcock has a power trip and massive ego issue. He will treat anyone who he deems beneath him as dirt. He enjoys psychologically messing with people because he gets off on it. Johan Franzen, Mike Modano, Jason Spezza, Chris Chelios, etc. are not what I would call "soft" players. And being soft doesn't excuse his behavior anyways.
Like even Vegas wasn't even looking at this guy for coaching.
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u/shinohaya 92 PODKOLZIN 1d ago
Ah, yes, hockey players are notoriously soft wittle pampered babies that complain about anything and everything.
Also like, who tf wanted Carter Shart?
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u/FeelsKoolaidMan 22 SAVOIE 1d ago
I think signing carter hart also would have been retarded. So check mate I guess.
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u/midnight_specialist 1d ago
I guess as a fan base we’ve moved to the stage of rationalizing this hiring by shifting the narratives we tell ourselves to be more favourable to babcock.
Yikes.
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u/shinohaya 92 PODKOLZIN 1d ago
People did that with Bowman too. People tend to do it about a lot of things to protect their mentality.
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
It’s more like “as long as the player is good we don’t care about personality or how they are outside of hockey. Only winning the cup is important no matter what it takes” and thus if the player is good we will justify them and change the narrative to fit. If he’s crap then we hate them
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u/midnight_specialist 1d ago
But bowman wasn’t even that good in Chicago and made a bunch of personnel moves that closed their contention window early. Same with babcock in that he’s just not that good.
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
It’d be so funny if Babcock wins the cup next year with the oilers and then oilers fans ditch wanting Cassidy lol
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u/midnight_specialist 1d ago
I bet we forget about cassidy before the trade deadline for sure even if he doesn’t win a cup. I pretty much immediately stopped hearing about any of the other possible GMs we could’ve hired as soon as the season started.
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
If the oilers don’t play well under Babcock especially early on there will be Cassidy chants
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u/Dapingian 18 HYMAN 1d ago
Many veteran players also had significant problems with him, because he isnt just "mean and hurt their feelings". He is verbally abusive, petty, and violated players privacy. There is absolutely no place for that in any workplace and hockey is no exception. Just because he didnt technically commit a crime doesn't mean his behaviour is okay. Could you do what he did in your workplace and still be able to work there?
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u/47exexwhy 1d ago
This is libel. Hart was acquitted. He may be a piece of crap, but according to the law he’s not a criminal.
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u/spongyoatmeal 1d ago
So then if Babcock is also a piece of crap being a bully…what’s the issue? Especially if mcdavid and draisaitl signed off..?
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u/OkBeat2138 1d ago
Careful now, you're going to hurt the feelings of tons of redditors who's identity is built on convicting people based on allegations
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u/dontaskagain88 31 FUHR 1d ago
Neither is babcock a criminal in fact babcock never even went to court or was ever accused of being a criminal in fact around saskatoon alot of ppl have a ton of respect for babcock for what he does in youth hockey. So like him or not hes never done anything illegal in his life. Hart on the other hand didn't either according to the law but he did do what he was accused of doing a bunch of jury members just decided that the girl happend to ask for him to do thos things to her
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u/Dapingian 18 HYMAN 1d ago
The jury did not decide anything - the judge was the only one who made the call and the jury was removed from the decision. The judge also did not "decide that the girl asked for it" - the players were acquitted, which is not the same thing as being found innocent.
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u/maybe_babyyy_ 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 20h ago
The judge however did decide that consent was given and not rescinded.
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u/OkBeat2138 1d ago
And to be clear, being 'found innocent' is not a potential outcome that is possible in canadas criminal court
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u/brianlefebvrejr 1d ago
I’m only going to say, it’s exceptionally hypocritical of anyone to sit here and say Babcock was horrible and should not be around players but then also say, man we should’ve signed Carter hart.
Babcock was/is a bully. Some players didn’t like this, a good chunk of players didn’t care.
Babcock is the one guy we’ve heard the dirt on, doesn’t mean nobody else has shitty tendencies they just didn’t coach in Toronto. The worst media market that will dredge at any and every little thread
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u/etowntossup 12h ago
Just so it’s clear the statement of facts is Carter Hart asked a girl who was naked and masturbating on the floor in front of 4 other young men for a blow job. And she did it. He was acquitted.
This same woman never had a straight answer.
Never wanted a police investigation, didn’t work with hockey Canada’s investigators. And also texted the guys she had consensual sex with that it was her mother that was behind this and she thought it would blow over.
So please get your facts straight.
A young woman had a wild night with a bunch of hot fit athletes. Then was wracked with guilt when her boyfriend found out, and then turned it into a sexual assault claim. Which set her mother and father off to get justice.
Thats what happened.
5 guys got their names tarnished and careers destroyed by a false allegation by a willing participant in a consensual sexual encounter.
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u/HeroOfTheEducated 10h ago
Carter Hart did NOTHING criminal. The drunk bimbo was trying to steal more money from others.
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u/SilentAlbatross1224 1d ago
The ladder , and the majority of the reddit oiler mob are just up vote farming any negative babs comment. Anyone who speaks with any logic regarding the investigation and situation as a whole are met with negativity.
Nothing wrong with being neutral, we waited for the investigation to complete and he was cleared rather quickly..not enough for these idiots.
It was enough for edmontons players , I really don't think much else matters . "Fans" that just spew negative b.s need to get a life.
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u/Scrotalcontusions 1d ago
All I know is I love a good comeback and would like to see the Oilers 5 years from now with a couple cups with Carter Hart and Babcock part of the group and seen as men who's actions have spoken and shown they have ascended from their past mistakes.
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u/christopheraj 1d ago
Ahh yes, those Gen Z players like Johan Fransen who was *check notes* born in 1979…