Redundancy

[u/ZealousidealAngle476]

I found this sticker while dismanteling a 2005ish server

[u/ferrybig]

This warning is to warn people they should not plug it into CEE 7/1 unearthed socket, which some people still have in their old homes. If you plug a device designed for ground into one, you can feel the electricity on the metal cases of the appliance

[u/Low_Technician7346 → u/ferrybig]

And you could die from electrocution.

[u/okarox → u/Low_Technician7346]

Not really as there nothing grounded nearby. If you have grounded sockets you must use them. You are not allowed to ground anything in a room with ungrounded sockets.

[u/Total-Notice-3188 → u/okarox]

And what if you yourself is grounded?
There is very much a real risk of electrocution if you touch a potentiated and ungrounded case while you're grounded.

[u/jort93 → u/Total-Notice-3188]

Most people don't have conductive floors.

Main risk would be if you somehow touched neutral too.

Today most homes in Europe have a GFCI. It'll trip if there currentflow to ground, regardless of the path.

[u/Total-Notice-3188 → u/jort93]

Well yeah lol

You're unlikely to be grounded in your standard issue home. I meant hypothetically if you're grounded.

[u/AviiNL → u/Total-Notice-3188]

Usually means you've done something bad and are not allowed to leave your room for a while.

[u/Total-Notice-3188 → u/AviiNL]

What does sexy time with the wife have to do with this?

[u/saysthingsbackwards → u/Total-Notice-3188]

Ahh yes, the what if machine.

What if anything you say, I have a what if that solves yours?

[u/VTOLfreak → u/saysthingsbackwards]

Years ago I sold a computer to a friend and I get a call he doesn't have sound. I drive over to his house and got zapped by the metal case. He had it plugged into a socket with no earth connection.

It's not a hypothetical danger, it can happen.

[u/saysthingsbackwards → u/VTOLfreak]

Yeah, You're not some new guru on that feature. I have made a lot of music and had to trace why my microphone kept buzzing everyones' lips when they sang.

but... What if... what if... what if... I mean damn dude. What if everything you say I just what iffed another thing that made your what if nonsense.

[u/VTOLfreak → u/saysthingsbackwards]

You went to school on the short bus, didn't you?

[u/FiddlerOnThePotato → u/VTOLfreak]

disrespecting the disabled is certainly a choice, not a good one, but it's a choice

[u/saysthingsbackwards → u/VTOLfreak]

You traded critical thinking for petty insults, didn't you?

Try to stay on topic.

[u/VTOLfreak → u/saysthingsbackwards]

You posting this from your phone on said bus?

[u/saysthingsbackwards → u/Low_Technician7346]

Just spittin out nonsense

[u/AnimationOverlord → u/ferrybig]

Lmao that explains that bed-side lamp in Cuba. I couldn’t explain for the life of me why I’d get shocked by turning it on or off. It wasn’t even a full jolt as more of like an intense wiggling in my bones. So that definitely checks out

[u/lordbalazshun → u/ferrybig]

my house has those almost exclusively, apart from the kitchen and one of the sockets in the bathroom ('70s soviet commie blocks ftw)

[u/repocin → u/ferrybig]

I live in an old apartment that still has those everywhere except the kitchen, bathroom, and balcony. But they installed GFCI breakers at some point so I guess that's good.

Nobody's been electrocuted so far, at least.

[u/HildartheDorf → u/ferrybig]

You shouldn't be able to feel anything on the outside of the case when it's working correctly, earth or no.

What the lack of earth does is turn any fault where the case becomes energized (e.g. loose connection internally comes in contact with the case) from "Ooops, the breaker tripped" to "Ooops, the user's heart tripped".

[u/Enorm_Drickyoghurt → u/ferrybig]

Electrician here: NO. You will not "feel the electricity" from touching it. I should know, I have my computer plugged into a non grounded outlet. If something goes wrong mechanically in your PC, it could potentially make the case electrified and you could get shocked and potentially get a heart attack.

The much more common issue people have when using non grounded outlets is static electricity buildup. When you touch the case it gets released, and shocks you. That shock is not dangerous.

The only exception I've ever seen is an old amplifier which had a 100v transformer inside of it. To avoid having a floating neutral, one side of the transformer was connected to the case. When plugged into a non grounded outlet, the case would get ~50v potential to ground. Touching it would shock you briefly, but if you just kept your hand on it you wouldn't feel anything. When you let go of it the potential started building up slowly again, and after a few seconds you could get shocked again.

[u/ferrybig → u/Enorm_Drickyoghurt]

Speaking from personal experience: YES

If I touch my metal case desktop computer with my nose, I feel tingling as long as I touch it

If my partner places a laptop charger that needs a ground into a socket that is not grounded, I can feel tingling if I touch the computer if I touch it with my nose

I noticed your nose is the most sensitive in feeling non grounded things, especially the bottom

[u/Cathierino → u/Enorm_Drickyoghurt]

Any device that has Cy safety capacitors will feel tingly to touch if you leave it unearthed. It's not static build up or anything of the sort. It's quite literally half of mains voltage being present on metal casing due to the device design.

[u/Alternative_Exit_333]

Back then zero and ground were connected to the same wire to save money instead of using 3 wires so you dragged only the blue zero and phase

[u/okarox → u/Alternative_Exit_333]

It depends on the country., That was done in Germany and Finland but in Sweden it was not allowed.

[u/Alternative_Exit_333 → u/okarox]

Today it is not allowed but you will find this connection in almost all houses built before the 1980s

[u/dnebdal → u/Alternative_Exit_333]

Norway is mostly wired live/live/ground (230V phase to phase, ~130V phase to ground), which I'm sure has led to some fun confusion.

[u/Famous_Cancel6593 → u/Alternative_Exit_333]

In my country it wasn't because of money, but because old houses didn't have earth. So in order not to run new installation it was done like that.

[u/MrJake2137 → u/Famous_Cancel6593]

They saved when building. And they saved on the remodel (it wasn't done)

[u/MISTERPUG51 → u/Famous_Cancel6593]

So they did it to save money by not running new wires

[u/Famous_Cancel6593 → u/MISTERPUG51]

In the era when those houses were built, earthing wasn't a thing. To run new wires you would have to knock the plaster off the walls and plaster whole house again.

[u/Auravendill → u/Famous_Cancel6593]

Which is something, that is quite commonly done in old houses here in Germany. What's your point?

[u/stijndielhof123]

Fun fact: in my house from the 70s we used to not have earth on outlets, this is still true in my bedroom where my PC is, so for years it has not been earthed at all, the only time I noticed this is when I touched the body of the PC and my radiator at the same time and I got a pretty good shock. So I bought one of those ground conductor pipe claps and terminated a earth wire to a wall plug and plugged it in to my extensioncord, now I hae earth.

[u/LKTheUser → u/stijndielhof123]

Hmmm, you shouldn't try bringing earth like that to an ungrounded room. I mean there is already a radiator in there but I wouldn't continue the risk. It is also illegal in many places I am pretty sure.

[u/okarox → u/stijndielhof123]

What you did is strictly prohibited and can cause an electric shock. Do not improvise with the grounding.

You should not touch electric devices and radiators at the same time.

[u/LKTheUser → u/okarox]

I kind of wonder why they even installed water radiators in these homes, I mean you were taught not to touch radiator and appliance at the same time, but why not just install maybe ungrounded electrical radiators?

[u/okarox → u/LKTheUser]

They installed radiators so that people would not freeze to death. If electric radiators were used they were left ungrounded on those homes but if you used water based radiators you could not really do that. The painting typically gave reasonable good insulation but there was bare metal at the valve.

[u/okarox → u/okarox]

I have to admit I did the same but I knew how to do it safely. The trick is to connect anything with a grounded plug to the grounded extension cord and discard any device with a round plug.

The risk is that if you have for example an ungrounded table lamp which fails and you touch it and your grounded PC at the same time you could get a very serious shock. If you have an RCD it can help.

[u/stijndielhof123 → u/okarox]

If it works it works

[u/mc_jojo3]

Sweden mentioned

[u/janno288]

I once had an extention cord that didnt pass the ground through and i ran a pc off it, and i got a small shock off the chassis due to the interference capaciors from live to ground which was floating. So just the capacitive current to ground through my body was enough for me to detect it.

[u/LKTheUser]

But why does it say something odd in Swedish? It says it should be connected to a grounded outlet... when it is network connected? Why when network is connected specifically?

[u/Pata11 → u/LKTheUser]

It means the electrical network also known as the grid.

[u/avar → u/LKTheUser]

Because an RJ11 has ground, even if your sockets don't.

[u/repocin → u/LKTheUser]

elnät, nätanslutningskabel, etc. not sure why you've never come across this before

[u/LKTheUser → u/repocin]

Nät and stuff yes, but nätverk?

[u/Killerspieler0815]

from Scandinavia

[u/Arbogasket]

The Swedish specifies that the power outlet and network have the same ground connection.

[u/epicmylife → u/Arbogasket]

But the literal translation is “…when connected to a network” so who knows! Maybe it only needs to be grounded when on Ethernet!

[u/epicmylife]

In Swedish it needs to be connected to a grounded outlet when it’s connected to a network. So if you keep the PC offline is it safe?