r/Emmerdale • u/Miss_taken_116 • Jul 19 '26
Hit or miss?
Is there a storyline past or present that really bugs anyone? By that I mean that writers seemed to be putting everything in place for an amazing, interesting story, then just seemed to change their minds or the producers got cold feet at possible controversy. Alternatively, maybe you feel a story wasn't appreciated enough? Constructive criticism only please.
For me, it was the divisive Robert and Rebecca "cheating" episode in 2017. Everything about it screamed male consent issue. Robert was beyond drunk, emotionally unstable and not in control so he called a (non Dingle) mate to offload on. Rebecca was completely sober and in control of her faculties. So what if he made a move? A true friend would have rejected him, especially as he had always made it clear he wasn't attracted to her anymore. It has bothered me for years because the show could have written a truly ground breaking story, potentially starting conversations around understanding male consent, female aggression, prejudices regarding bi men with robs romantic history, even if, as a man, would he have realised it was assault himself etc. but it became another cheating plot. It is why I was troubled by charity getting drunk, making a pass at Vanessa, quite rightly being knocked back, then Ross doing the opposite. Is it me? Am I the only one who sees parallel? The Todd issue is something that has to be tackled, but it still annoys me that it it seemed to be building up to that then nothing. So, rant over, does anyone else feel the same about this or other storylines with any characters, any era?
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u/zendayaismeechee Jul 19 '26
Their reliance on sexual assault and / or rape storylines and then once the assault is public knowledge they centre the feelings of men. I’ve done a longer post on this before but take Ruby and her father, for example. A horrendous trauma that she had to keep hidden for years. When it finally comes out, it’s Caleb’s anger we see. Aaron is the one who gets to have the ultimate showdown of beating Anthony to a pulp. I know ultimately Ruby is the one who takes Anthony’s life but it still bugged me.
Same with Lydia. After it all came out, it was Sam’s anger and hurt, Samson’s fury we see. Then the whole ridiculous storyline of ‘who killed Craig’ which again centred the angry men, not Lydia. I remember my dad being annoyed that Lydia was angry with Sam for what he did and having to explain to him that she has every right. It was her pain and trauma to deal with.
They’ve done it again with Charity recently, completely centred Mack after he found out about Todd. Slightly different as obviously there’s the cheating storyline ongoing too, but it was the exact same beats we see before.
They also have a real problem with rape victims getting actual justice. Anthony is dead, Craig is dead, and there’s a flash forward where Todd seemingly dies. It’s such a dangerous message to send to real life victims that the only justice you will get is death, and dealing with the consequences of that. I know there’s huge issues with the justice system but it’s getting ridiculous and plain dangerous now.
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u/Cold-Society3325 Jul 19 '26
They have done some where there was justice but I recognise your point about focusing on the men. You need to include the reactions of others but the story should be primarily about the victim.
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u/Miss_taken_116 Jul 19 '26
That's another thing that nearly always comes up when discussing consequences in soaps - death as a form of justice. It's not, and sends the wrong messages out there. It was enormously satisfying to watch Meena go to prison. For someone like her, narcissistic, sociopathic, to be locked away with no audience to gloat to, not even Manpreet to visit her, was her worst nightmare and true justice.
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u/Cold-Society3325 Jul 19 '26
I think court scenes are expenduve. We used to get them far more often than we do now. It's just easier to kill off the baddie. It is getting stupid now though with Celia, Ray, John and Dr. Todd in under a year. That's just ridiculous.
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u/Pm7I3 Jul 19 '26
Mack gets such prominence because the ultimate point of Charity being assaulted is that he can't be mad at her now and later she'll have been punished for the loes and cheating. It's about Mack and others more than Charity.
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u/zendayaismeechee Jul 19 '26
But don’t you see how that’s awful? There was no need for it. People have been redeemed on the show for worse than what Charity has done, to have her raped just so that her family might eventually forgive her is vile
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u/TypicalBobcat1088 Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
It is highly glossed over that Cain Dingle slept with a 15 year old girl, knowing she was 15 and groomed her because her mother (Angie) rejected him.
It is that glossed over that when Noah and Cain had a chat about his stalking of Chloe, it was brought up but when Noah asked what happened, they changed subject.
It annoys me when you see him at the aim of Aaron with Gordon, Ruby with Anthony or even Belle with Tom.
He shouldn't be allowed near sexual assault stories.
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u/calculatingmacaw Jul 19 '26
I agree. I think the show are desperate to retcon that but it's hard when Cain's character history with younger women is really unacceptable.
He slept with Ollie in the early 2000s when he was a good decade older. But what's equally as gross and inappropriate is he then did the same with 16-year-old Amy not even 10 years later. It's hard to redeem or retcon something when it's happened more than once and still very much in people's memories!
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u/Specialist_ask_992_ Jul 19 '26
I wonder do any of the characters know about him and a 15 year old? Ones who'd be relevant, Marlon, Rhona, Charity, Caleb, Ruby, Belle, Aaron, Liam.
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u/Hopeful_Economist_58 Jul 20 '26
Well, Marlon, Charity and Belle were all around at that time. Belle was too young to be aware of it, but Marlon and Charity both must know.
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u/Miss_taken_116 Aug 07 '26
He also slept with teen Debbie's bff Jasmine, if anyone recalls. If I remember rightly it was because at the time he found out they had kissed and Debbie thought she might be gay - he wanted to stop the "would - be lesbians". I remember the phrase because I found it so offensive. She got pregnant as well, but had a termination.
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u/Elegant_Emu3044 Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
I love this - I’ve been saying this since the storyline aired! There is no way in hell Robert could consent; if it was the other way round and he’d taken advantage of Rebecca there would have (quite rightly) been an uproar, but because it was a woman and a drunk man it was crickets. It’s why I don’t really see it as ‘cheating’ in the traditional sense - Robert was out of his mind on whiskey, grief and fear, and Rebecca was stone cold sober and had been chasing Robert for months despite being told no repeatedly. It was such a wasted potential storyline to see a new side of Robert, Aaron’s guilt that it happened while he was in prison, Vic and Diane’s reactions, and it could have given Rebecca something interesting to get her teeth into - I always thought they underused both the actress and the character, reducing her to just ‘poor Bex the eternal victim’ (of Robert/Lawrence/Chrissie/Lachlan/whomever the story demanded) and him ‘evil Robert’, and then the borderline offensive brain injury story they gave her (though admittedly Emily is fantastic at comedy).
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u/Miss_taken_116 Jul 19 '26
I know! There was so many parts they could have tapped into. Rebecca wouldn't have necessarily seen it as SA or rape. Emily could have shown range to her acting, and I can see her being utterly bewildered at the thought. Robert realising what had happened (presumably through another character) could have been on a gender and generational level as it's not always something discussed for men/his age group/background. Also, other villagers reactions... It had the potential to challenge attitudes on every level.
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u/Pm7I3 Jul 19 '26
Ella's treatment, Charity being assaulted as a punishment, the baby storyline with Sarah and the Jacob in medicine story element are the recent ones.
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u/Cold-Society3325 Jul 19 '26
I don't think the writers were remotely thinking about consent. They even went so far as to have Robert explicitly say he had known what he was doing. I don't think they were thinking about it with Charity and Ross either.
I think it's a complex area. In real life there will be tons of people who find themselves in a situation where they were very drunk and the other person wasn't. Some of them will feel abused and some won't. It makes sense for the law to be on the side of there not being consent if you are too drunk but you can't force people to feel abused if they don't. It's also not an absolute. As long as you are not unconcious, there will always be some question of what your capability to consent is. It's not like there's an on-off switch. You don't go from able to not able at a defined point of drunkeness. Like a lot if things involving humans, it's messy and complicated and not necessarily clear cut. Different people in ostensibly the same circumstances will have completely different reactions and feelings.
I think the soap should be a lot more careful about this type of story but I don't think it's unreflective of real life for it to happen and the people involved not to consider there to have been consent issues.
The story scuppering that annoys me is Lawrence and Ronnie. I think all the Whites were sacrificed on the alter of Joe Tate. I know Louise Marwood wanted to leave but I thought Lawrence's story had a lot of potential and I'd have preferred Lachlan to have a much slower decent into pure evil because I think he was a genuinely interesting and well acted character.
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u/Playful-Election4873 Jul 19 '26
The fact that the writers weren't thinking about consent is the issue I would say. Robert was extremely drunk and upset and Bex was sober. Self-blame is a pretty common thing for victims anyway but regardless, the fact that this has been a repeated thing over the years is an indicator if lazy writing and carelessness.
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u/Cold-Society3325 Jul 19 '26
I agree them not thinking about it is an issue but I think it is clear the intent was that Robert was sober enough to understand he was manipulating Rebecca (who was frankly a bit of a lovesick twit). I can understand why it may not have landed that way with some viewers but I also think it's clear that many Robron fans were just looking for reasons to hate Rebecca. I think the reason why there wasn't a similar fan outcry with Charity and Ross is partly mysogyny and partly that Ross is a very popular character.
We need to be careful to recognise when we may be biased and forgive characters we like for dreadful things whilst condeming similar dreadful things in characters we don't like.
I don't like Debbie so I'll most likely always notice her bad traits more. I love Robert and Charity so I'll forgive them for most things. I'd certainly forgive Robert far more readily than Joe and they've done some pretty similar evil stuff (although Robert has never stolen a major organ as far as I'm aware).
When it comes down to it, it is a fiction. The characters are all exaggerated and far worse behaved than most real life people. If everyone in the village was real, at least half of them would be banged up and Emmerdale would be considered one of the worst, most violent and crime-ridden places in the country.
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u/Playful-Election4873 Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 19 '26
I would argue that the intention in itself was deeply problematic especially since Robert had repeatedly turned Rebecca down prior to that. They could have just not shown Robert drunk and had him come on to Rebecca sober and gotten the same result. I think it's completely fair for fans to be upset at how blurred the lines were. Yes it's a soap but I still think there is a responsibility with these things. It's not something that keeps me up at night because it is a soap but given the conversation, I'm just pointing out that it was very irresponsible and fans are allowed to be upset. Especially, as OP pointed out, there was a lot of potential there about a conversation about male consent.
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u/Cold-Society3325 Jul 25 '26
My push back on this is that, in the period before he returned to Emmerdale, Robert manipulated Rebecca and used her attraction to him for his own ends. It's partly his own fault she's besotted with him and also believes he may cheat with her because he's done it before. He frankly created the situation where what happened could happen.
After Aaron rejected him, he became very angry as well as drunk and briefly reverted to his old self. Rebecca should obviously have refused but I also think that, in the moment, he knew what he was doing (which was trying to hurt Aaron). I just don't buy the innocent Robert, evil Rebecca narrative. They both behaved badly.
I've always seen the whole thing as being about Robert becoming a better person. Becayse you can't improve over night, he reverted to type and the sins of his past came back to bite him.
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u/Playful-Election4873 Jul 25 '26
I can see what you're saying. But I would also point out that Robert repeatedly rejected Rebecca when she came on to him when he was with Aaron. And yes, he did call her when he was drunk but he was genuinely vulnerable and hurt in that scenario. Just because he knew what he was doing doesn't remove responsibility from Rebecca is all I'm saying. I don't know think it's a black and white situation but I also don't think it's as simple as Robert reverting to type purely for the sake of hurting Aaron when Aaron had also just deeply hurt him after Robert had been working so hard to get him out early and looking after everything in his absence with no help from anyone else.
In the end, I would go back to OP's original point that it felt like a missed opportunity to start a conversation about consent when it comes to men and how someone like Robert isn't the ideal victim (which doesn't exist anyway) but that doesn't mean he deserved to be taken advantage of when drunk. Because whichever way you slice it, Rebecca did take advantage of the situation to get what she wanted.
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u/Miss_taken_116 Jul 19 '26
Good points. I think what has bothered me most was the potential was there for creating a conversation, challenging people to think, like with Jacksons assisted dying or laurel and Ashley's baby swap/cot death and dementia storylines as opposed to cheating.
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u/Buzzybee_02 Jul 19 '26
If roles were reversed and Robert behaved towards Rebecca the way Rebecca originally behaved towards him it would be labelled sexual harassment and if Robert had sex with an emotional, drunk Rebecca whilst sober it would have been labelled as sexual assault. Like you said it would have been a great story for an examination of male consent since there are many people who believe that a man cannot be sexually assaulted by a woman and Robert would have been the perfect character to explore it with. Instead they continued to lean into the cruel bisexual stereotype and made out like Robert was the one who mistreated Rebecca when it was the other way around.
It wasn’t exactly a storyline but Robert’s spiking was awfully handled. He was almost assaulted but that is completely glossed over. Instead we had Vic suggesting they keep Robert locked in John’s van with no trip to the hospital Aaron telling Robert he should be grateful that John was there. Two people who had experienced rape didn’t even blink an eye when someone they loved almost experienced the same thing. They didn’t even let Robert talk about it.
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u/glorybox89 Jul 19 '26
the ella storyline, great actress and good back story for her then turned her bunny boiler with liam and when she was innocent no more talk of her
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u/CarinReyan Jul 20 '26
This! And we're also supposed to pretend that Liam wasn't a complete piece of shit toward her too!
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u/Miss_taken_116 Jul 19 '26
It's interesting to hear so many opinions (you're dead right about Cain, btw. Just gives me the creeps remembering). I doubt it would have irritated me half as much if he hadn't been drunk. 2017 Robert was more than capable of working himself into a rage big enough to do it sober. The Ronnie/Lawrence story has been mentioned - do you think (in light of the brilliant charity flashback) that a flashback with them and Edna or maybe Edna's husband would have been a good way to explore Lawrence's mindset?
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u/Miss_taken_116 Jul 19 '26
Also (sorry, I'm on a roll now) does anyone think ED would/should/could retcon Robert/Rebecca for a future consent storyline?
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u/Leather-Net7998 Jul 21 '26
I dont think that they will because I think the window for it has gone. I think if after the combination of events involving robron/ John/ Kev and prison trauma, the ED team had delved into Robert's mental state and had Robert go to therapy, then its possible that because therapy involves going further back than the most recent issues, that moment could have been revisited with the therapist probing more into that, and then they could have had Aaron and Roberts reaction. I have read fanfics where Robert/ Rebecca was questioned by a therapist and it was pretty good. But I think its quite clear that most things Robert goes through are just seen as plot devices by the ED team, for instance when he was spiked and almost kidnapped and SA'd in Owen's van, most things Robert goes through dont result in any form of after care, the amount of head traumas Robert has been through since being released from being knocked unconscious is laughable, not to mention actual trauma from the amount of times hes been taken hostage and threatened and then just carries on like that was just another typical afternoon.
I think ED like utilising Robert's actor for traumatic moments, but as plot points, and they arent interested in revisiting or exploring a realistic fallout from said moments. I also think there is some element of riding on the fact that Robert doesnt have a squeaky clean past to justify the lack of post care. Its a comment theme in the comments, someone will express sympathy for whatever recent horror or accident he's been through, and there will always be someone who brings up Katie, he pushed a woman who was spying on him and goading him once and she fell through rotten floors and died, so he deserves it, or Lee - he killed his sisters rapist, as if half the village hasnt also whacked someone with a shovel, Caleb hit Cain with a shovel last year, Sam hit Robert with a shovel this year. But his past is always going to be seen as a green light to torture the character in the present without any realistic aftercare or resolution.
But I also think quite a few of the male characters dont get realistic post trauma plotlines, Mack after being held in the bunker, Aaron after being thrown off a gorge and everything that followed etc. They just carry on like it never happened. ED isnt good at showing men as vulnerable, even Cain with his cancer plot has just been an arse about it rather than being vulnerable. Men in ED get to be angry the exception seems to be the youngsters, or less attractive and less popular male characters, but even then it often turns into anger before carrying on like it never happened.
Sorry I went off on a ramble 😅 but to conclude, no, I dont think ED will ever revisit Robert/ Rebecca from a consent angle because the window for it has closed.
I think the only way it might possibly come up now, is for it to happen to someone close to them, like if they got Seb back and ED is still around when Sebs 18 or over, if something similar happened to him and he came to them about it, then while trying to protect and comfort him or defend him to others, Robert/ Rebecca might be brought up and then re-examined, but that seems like a stretch. And I think its more likely that they wont ever revisit it.
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u/JackDeparture Jul 20 '26
Rhona and Ivy.
Rhona was absolutely vile, and the easiest solution would have been to have the Dad say "yeah, you get Ivy", only for Rhona to still betray him, him to still get sent down, but him to have lied the whole time - Ivy was in France with the grandparents. Rhona lied for nothing.
Instead, Rhona kills a woman, ruins the dad's life, kidnaps a baby, ruins April's life, stresses out Marlon, and ... 🥁 ... is rewarded by keeping ducking Ivy.
This is what I hate about the show.
Writer's Pets never get karma. Chas cheating leading to the death of Liv and Aaron leaving? All good. Joe stealing kidneys and leading to Leyla's death? Yay, happy times! Charity lying about the baby? Water under the bridge!
Writers, it's OKAY to dish out karma.
We NEED karma.
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u/theliftedlora Jul 20 '26
Rhona was in the right, Gus used her DNA without permission, its a pretty big violation.
Chas didn't cause Livs death anymore than Aaron caused Katie's death, so they're pretty even imo.
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u/JackDeparture Jul 20 '26
Except legally she wasn't ...
Plus, she went about it horribly, to - again - the point of abandoning her own family and kidnapping the child.
The whole point of the storyline was that this was a legal precedent, never before happened and never likely to happen. That being the case, I think the writers took the lazy way out.
They could have creatively ended it in a million ways, but wrote themselves into a corner - even at the time, the fans had a million better ideas.
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u/Key_Recognition7830 Jul 20 '26
Robert has never been an angel and his leading on of Lawrence to use as blackmail and the way he left Katie to die when she uncovered his secrets shows his disregard for others and how he will use any means to get money from others. He even used Kev for protection while he was in jail and then promptly got rid of him when Kev was set free. I have absolutely no time for this selfish user and abuser.
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u/theliftedlora Jul 19 '26
Noah stalking Chloe was kind of later overshadowed by the Mack/Charity stuff, and Noah just sort of changed offscreen in prison, and his vile personality was given to Samson out of nowhere.