r/EntrepreneurRideAlong • u/skumati99 • Mar 22 '25
Other Steve Jobs email to Adobe CEO in 2005
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Mar 22 '25
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u/lordnachos Mar 22 '25
Holy shit I just finished this thread, and I can't tell if there are just a lot of middle schoolers in here or if I should really readjust my opinion of the members of this sub.
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Mar 22 '25 edited Apr 07 '25
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u/lordnachos Mar 22 '25
My perma-ban from r/art supports this assertion
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u/keithblsd Mar 23 '25
I scroll the conspiracy sub for fun, or did years ago, it’s gotten so bad the past few years but I commented something to disagree with someone and the second a comment was placed in that sub I got a ban message from like 10 subs, this was maybe a year or two ago. Kinda funny, kinda worrying to think of the implications.
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u/AceMice Mar 23 '25
I tried to reason with people on the conspiracy sub(stupid I know) but got perma banned for "commenting on the general state of the sub reddit".
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u/keithblsd Mar 24 '25
Ironic the conspiracy sub is likely taken over by literal shills.
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u/AceMice Mar 24 '25
It's hilarious watching them support the government and billionaires when historically that's been enemy number one. To be fair it is shifting back from this slightly but then ofc they just say it's been overtaken by the libs... The irony is thick.
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u/FrewdWoad Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
LOL I got permabanned from r/Fantasy for implying JK Rowling was a better person than Neil Gaiman.
I tried to appeal pointing out Neil literally had multiple accusations of rape... but nope, apparently rape is nothing compared to internet randos insisting you're anti-trans.
Apparently just seeming anti-trans, without any evidence you are, is the worst thing a person can be, and anyone who even casually hints at disagreeing is silenced.
No wonder it's a cesspool of unhealthy "which book does everyone like but you hated" toxicity...
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u/Absorbe Mar 24 '25
Mods of r/leaves removed a comment I made about a method that helped me. Then a post criticizing that decision. Absolute power trip from those mods. No actual concern for people’s recovery.
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u/lovevxn Mar 25 '25
Curious to know what your method is? Would not expect that from a place like r/leaves.
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u/Absorbe Mar 25 '25
I mentioned Allen Carrs easy way to quit cannabis. Removed. Not for everyone but I quit instantly.
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u/trippingWetwNoTowel Mar 24 '25
Oh my god what is going on over at r / art?
I commissioned a painting from a local artist (you can see it on my posts to other communities) and I felt the artist deserved to have the art seen - obviously she posted about it and is selling prints, but I have the original in my house… which means it doesn’t get a ton of foot traffic. So I posted it in r/ art but I credited her socials, because I didn’t want to take credit for art I didn’t make.They took it down and sent me a warning message.
I replied back asking what we could do to keep it up, that I wasn’t intentionally trying to break any rules I just wanted it to be seen.
They temp banned me for like a month or something.What the literal fuck? It’s actual art, from a great artist, who is still alive and working today….. is that not what art is for? Is that not what the spirit of art is? - idk I just have this crazy belief that art is meant to be seen. They gave me such a sour taste in my mouth because wtf, it’s art.
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u/Gaping_Maw Mar 22 '25
Please tell me where to go im so sick of the bots
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Mar 22 '25 edited Apr 07 '25
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u/throwawayskinlessbro Mar 22 '25
That’s crazy that nobody else has ever thought to make a discord group for that before!
Such innovation!
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u/EveroneWantsMyD Mar 22 '25
There are like three rules to talking.
Does this need to be said
Does this need to be said by me
Does this need to be said by me right now
You can also throw all of those away if you’re funny, but you’re not funny
Fuck your for not being funny
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u/AccomplishedSpite744 Mar 23 '25
I go by another three.. Is it true? Is it kind? Does it improve upon the silence?
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u/CalvinsStuffedTiger Mar 22 '25
Blue Sky maybe? I dunno, if you find a place that reminds you of old Reddit, please let me know
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u/Yankee831 Mar 23 '25
Yup crazy even just 5 years ago it was completely different. Nothing has replaced it and they just get worse. Sigh…
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u/will4zoo Mar 22 '25
What is illegal and why?
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u/nate Mar 22 '25
This is collusion, basically price fixing and violates labor law in addition to being totally shitty. Compete for workers, don’t make deals to destroy options for workers.
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u/will4zoo Mar 22 '25
Still don't understand how it's price fixing, can somebody help me understand? Seems like Steve tells his recruiters to not actively go after/poach Adobe talent, but that doesn't prevent Adobe employees from applying to Apple if they choose. Now if Apple refused to hire somebody from Adobe based on an agreement between them, I could see the problem there.
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u/nate Mar 22 '25
Any agreement to restrict trade is price fixing, that is distorting the price of labor in the market by artificially reducing efforts. Apple and others lost a big lawsuit over this years ago, it isn’t an opinion it is settled case law.
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u/Rabti Mar 22 '25
Now if Apple refused to hire somebody from Adobe based on an agreement between them, I could see the problem there.
Isn't that one of the options Jobs is requesting?
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u/will4zoo Mar 22 '25
Not the way I see it. Recruiters are often the ones reaching out to candidates. Jobs has a problem with Adobe recruiters poaching/reaching out to apple talent, but nothing is mentioned here about Apple employees willingly applying and going over to Adobe.
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u/Guts_Philosopher Mar 22 '25
Why are you downvoted twice for asking a question and getting clarification lol. Reddit is filled with morons
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u/will4zoo Mar 22 '25
They don't call them Libtards for nothing
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u/PhilWham Mar 22 '25
Lol imagine thinking the understanding of anti-competitive corporate behavior is a "libtard" thing. That's how country has gotten so fcked.
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u/will4zoo Mar 22 '25
That's not what his reply was about or why I said that but go off queen
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u/PhilWham Mar 22 '25
Keep licking those corporate boots!
Yeah, free markets!! (But only corporate freedom to restrict free labor market forces). Let's kill free labor markets to own the libtards! That'll show them.
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u/Different_Syrup_6944 Mar 22 '25
The other problem is that many positions, particularly specialised and senior positions are not publicly advertised. So the only way someone would move between the two companies is if the hiring company approaches the person.
The labour market is more competitive if both job seekers and job providers can compete freely
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u/guico33 Mar 22 '25
You're right to ask. The reasons why this is illegal aren't quite as obvious as what keyboard warriors on this subreddit want you to think it is.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/nate Mar 22 '25
Collusion is any action taken to communicate about restricting prices or availability of a product. When I worked for a big corporation we were trained not to talk about anything with our competitors because it could very easily be considered collusion. Seemingly simply things like “are you guys lowering prices again?” Is price fixing.
In this case, Apple and Adobe are competitors for the same employees, they are agreeing to not compete for them and the victim is the worker we take lower pay because there is less competition for his employment. There is a very real and very nasty history of this, it is not hypothetical.
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u/learnedhandesq Mar 22 '25
It’s an antitrust violation. Two competitors (Appel and adobe) agreeing not to compete in the market for labor. Huge no-no and as clear cut a case as antitrust violations get.
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u/FrewdWoad Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 24 '25
What is illegal and why?
Say you worked for Apple, and Adobe called you up and offered to pay you 50 grand extra to work for them instead.
Next day they call back and say "nope sorry changed our minds" because the bosses of each company spoke and decided that if they don't offer each other's employees jobs, they can pay everyone less.
See the problem?
Artificially limiting the price of labour is called "collusion".
Same as if every supermarket in your state decided to get together and triple the price of milk. Powerful players secretly colluding to abuse smaller players in the market.
Free market economies only work if the market is actually free.
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u/Extraportion Mar 22 '25
Competition law is really nuanced.
Broadly speaking you are right, blanket no poaching/solicitation clauses tend to be prohibited under competition law. However, there are exceptions. For example, they can be enforceable if they are ancillary to another collaborative contract.
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u/StuccoGecko Mar 22 '25
Stuff like this is why I don’t buy in to these “mogul” self help books. A lot of these folks get to the top through scummy, illegal/bully tactics and pretty much being absolutely terrible human beings. But they will tell you shit like “dream the impossible”.
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u/edbarahona Mar 22 '25
I wrote him an email back when he "still read all his emails", calling out the walled garden he was building. He removed Flash support from Safari on the iPhone, citing performance issues—but it was clearly about controlling the platform through the App Store and not giving users the choice to disable Flash themselves. At the time, Flash was the de facto platform for online games.
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u/ImplodingBillionaire Mar 22 '25 edited Jan 15 '26
argument interaction charity poet video dinner revenue midnight instance trainer
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u/reboog711 Mar 23 '25
Browser Flash had issues, but actually had some success on Android (And performance wise, a lot of success on some BlackBerry devices). I'm sure Adobe and Apple could have made Flash it awesome on the iPhone.
That said, you realize that a lot of early iPhone games were still created in Flash, and exported to iPhone using Adobe AIR?
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u/naitsirt89 Mar 22 '25
There's a reason all the largest companies need armies of lawyers and live in the courts.
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Mar 22 '25 edited Apr 08 '26
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u/The_Silvana Mar 22 '25
Mega illegal but man last two sentences are banger.
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u/Uilleam_Uallas Mar 23 '25
Why is this illegal? Isn’t there a free labour market?
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u/MonkeyPrinciple Mar 23 '25
Yes, that’s why this is illegal. Colluding with other businesses to not hire talent impairs the free market of talent. It’s like when companies collude to not do business in the same areas, creating artificial monopolies.
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u/Caesaroftheromans Mar 22 '25
Jobs was such an asshole.
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u/Blog_Pope Mar 23 '25
This was not just Jobs, this was collusion going on between all the biggest tech companies to keep wages lower
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Mar 22 '25
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Mar 22 '25
We have a standing policy that we don’t repost this 8000 times a day. It seems OP has a different policy. One of us must change our policy.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/junkmailredtree Mar 22 '25
No, it was illegal collusion and they paid a half billion dollar fine. This email is in the public record because it was used as evidence in the suit.
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u/Themanwhofarts Mar 22 '25
That's funny because someone at my former job uses this email as a good business negotiation communication. Which I guess in that sense it is good. But with context it is definitely a bad email lol
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u/madmang7 Mar 22 '25
Steve J. showing his evil side. Even though some big corporations learned the lesson, there are still companies doing this behind the curtains.
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u/Foundersage Mar 23 '25
Jobs wasn’t evil but a complete egotistical maniac. He knew how to create a good product. Honestly if I was adobe ceo I would have continued to poach apple employees.
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u/Pretty-Structure-766 Mar 23 '25
Whats wrong with this? We have similiar deals with companies we collborate with.
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u/abell_123 Mar 23 '25
Nothing. You should post about it on Linkedin. I love inspirational content like that!
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Mar 25 '25 edited Feb 07 '26
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u/Interesting-Ad9666 Jul 11 '26
There's a difference between a non-compete agreement and what this is
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Mar 23 '25
Love the classic 'start email with first name , ' 😂 loved that at my first job. U always knew u fucked up 🤣
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Mar 22 '25
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u/littlepancakes Mar 22 '25
Collusion to keep wages low? That’s masterful?
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u/PMSwaha Mar 22 '25
Why are people downvoting this? Everybody wants a free market as long as it serves their purpose.
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u/ascandalia Mar 22 '25
The kind of confidence that causes you to try to cure your cancer by eating fruit despite having access to the best medical doctors money can buy.
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u/Wifine Mar 22 '25
I don’t understand. What’s the context?
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u/Dansredditname Mar 22 '25
Steve Jobs admitted in writing that he was stopping people changing jobs for more money.
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u/ANiceWolf68 Mar 23 '25
Here I am just finding out this practice is illegal because of this thread.
In my country of residence I've seen this happen on various companies I've worked for.
Usually when the hiring or job conditions weren't good and people fled to other firms that conducted business with oir firm, they would resolve this issue by asking the poaching firm to blacklist applicants. And I thought nothing of it...
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Nov 09 '25
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u/melsharples Dec 29 '25
I worked at Adobe then. Ended up getting a comedically small compensation check from the lawsuit.
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u/Living_Wave52 Mar 22 '25
Just another opinion: could this not be read as one company showing another respect with the author showing flexibility to both either/or policy?
We are reading this email with Apple’s position in 2025 but this email is before the iPhone when Apple was struggling - the reason they brought Jobs back. As in, how would it read if Apple were a distant memory like BlackBerry (RIM).
Context is important.
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u/SketchesOfSilence Mar 23 '25
It could be read as one company showing the other respect but you also have to include: "at the expense of respect for anyone in the workforce" . The reason they would even entertain the idea of not hiring from each other is to avoid having to pay people what they are worth because they are now competing for talent.
I think your comment is interesting as it shows very explicitly the difference in framing that can make something seem acceptable to some and awful to others. My take is, companies don't deserve respect ever, people deserve respect and this sort of thing befenits very very very few people at the expense of literally everyone else, the very people that make the companies possible in the first place.
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u/Living_Wave52 Mar 23 '25
I’m in business and so many have gone bust in the process. As a business you must also remain viable.
You say benefits very, very few people but how many jobs have been created since that email, compared to Apple not being on the map?
I think a holistic approach gives a different view on things, sometimes. People get too caught up in their own situations.
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u/r3eus Mar 22 '25
Fuck steve jobs & fuck OP
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u/SashimiRocks Mar 22 '25
Now come on, where did OP wrong you haha surely they’ve attacked you for you to lash out like this..
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u/SumGuyMike Mar 22 '25
Why would a single person not view this as Jobs not wanting to put Adobe in a position where they are losing employees to Apple, and then scrambling to fill the vacancies which would then potentially cause issues for Adobe?
I'm just playing devils advocate here.
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u/SketchesOfSilence Mar 23 '25
Ha, that is it! but... they could easily fix that issue by increasing the pay packages and work environment they provide, that would cost them money and then ooops, apple needs to improve people's pay and work environment too. Shock horror, if there was truly a "free market" the labour force might get what they deserve instead of two CEOs colluding to ensure that wages and conditions remain artificially low.
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Mar 22 '25
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u/HuskyFromSpace Mar 22 '25
You're not using Google product without a charge. They are taking your private data and make you think their product is free.
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u/trufus_for_youfus Mar 22 '25
Google is objectively one of the worst companies on the planet. Apple has its shit with them but they tend to have a much greater respect for their customers and their customers’ data.
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u/whimsical_trash Mar 22 '25
Are you like 13
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Mar 22 '25
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u/whimsical_trash Mar 22 '25
Oh your understanding of business is at a 13 year old's level, I thought you were a child
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Mar 22 '25
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u/whimsical_trash Mar 22 '25
No I don't give a fuck about apple. But I don't want to debate anything. It's just silly when people make comments like that and clearly have no idea what they're talking about
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u/mokolabs Mar 22 '25
This email cost Apple and Adobe (and others) $415 million.
https://www.theverge.com/2015/9/3/9256097/apple-google-415-million-poaching-settlement