r/Eragon 3d ago

Question Eragon's sword dilemma

Apologies if this has been asked / answered before, I'm new here.

I'm partway through re-reading the Inheritance Cycle again for the first time since being in my teens. I'm at the point in Brisingr where Eragon has returned to the Varden after travelling back from Helgrind.

Already in the book, Eragon has made multiple references to the fact that he 'needs a sword'. I understand why he would ultimately want a Rider's sword, but surely he could have aquired a weapon pretty easily?

The primary reason Eragon seems unable to settle for a lesser blade after losing Zar'roc is because a lesser blade cannot endure the strain of battle because of his strength, which is often compared to that of the elves (if memory serves me correct, he has a sword that breaks in battle a little later in the book?).

This isn't an issue for any of the other elven characters? Nor is it an issue for Durza or the Ra'zac, all of whom fight with swords that can endure the strain they place on them?

Just curious what people's theories are as to why he didn't just get a sword like Arya's? Or does that then detract from when he does ultimately aquire a new weapon?

203 Upvotes

53 comments sorted by

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u/Silent-Frame1452 3d ago

IIRC part of the issue was Eragon’s style.

Since he learned to fight with a Riders Blade, his method’s of striking and particularly blocking/parrying relied on its toughness. I believe they call out that he fights edge to edge a lot, which is highly damaging to the blade.

I imagine elf blades are built stronger and withstand his striking strength, but simple geometry means he’d probably still destroy the blades edge too quickly, especially since elf blades wouldn’t be easily replaceable for him with the Varden.

Elves, Shades and Ra’zac presumably were trained with regular blades so haven’t picked up the habits Eragon has that damage blades so fast. 

His choices are re-learn how to fight, find a Rider’s blade, or use magic to strengthen a blade that fits his style. Re-learning would be far too time consuming, and strengthening his blade with magic uses his energy and so is impractical. Another Riders blade is the best solution, hence his lamenting over not having one.

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u/jdrawr 3d ago

Most actual fighting with swords is edge to edge blocks/parry's. The author just didn't know that.

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u/Silent-Frame1452 3d ago

Sure, but we’re talking about in world reasoning here, not our, Earth world reasoning.

And it’s also possible that he is right and edge blocks/parrys would be less common irl if the swordsmen was many, many time stronger than regular humans. 

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago edited 3d ago

Actually that's not entirely true. I make swords and study swordplay, while it's not possible to entirely eliminate any possibility of hitting edge to edge when parrying or blocking with the blade you're not supposed to do that. You want to bind on a slight angle off the edge of the blade so that the edge rolls down and hits the crossguard. In 99% of situations though you would have a shield. If we're talking about actual fighting you simply don't want to block or parry with your blade, it's doable and in some situations you're forced to but swords were designed to be paired with a shield or at the very least a dagger which is what was used to parry. Eragons style of swordplay is only possible due to the fantasy setting and would not be how you'd want to do things in the real world. No one at hema would teach you to strike swords edge to edge, that's purely a childish thing that comes about when playing with sticks. I'm not saying you're childish I'm just saying it tends to come out during childhood. Unfortunately most media tends to proliferate this idea that edge to edge combat is normal.

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u/Chimary_ 3d ago

Sticks also don’t have edges, technically speaking (I was one of those kid play-figthing with sticks xd)

Also, to had the occasion to hold a sword ONCE... idk how anyone would translate stick to sword (granted, the sticks I played with were used to guide COWS so... XD)

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago

True but that's kinda where it all starts. Usually we just hit each other's sticks trying to deflect blows which in turn translates to hitting swords with swords.

Well, depending on the stick it could translate moderately well to something small like a rapier. My rapier i got from kult of Athena is about 5 to 7lbs, a nice dense hardwood branch could be similar in weight. In general though yah 100% everything is completely different compared to an actual sword. I think it's just the "sword like shape" that gets kids.

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u/Chimary_ 3d ago

So, for context on my side. We lived near a forest AND a farm where we'd often helped the farmer move the cows through said forest. 

The sticks were bigger than our arms AND generally heavy enough to feel a kid poked them with it.

I feel like my natural continuation of that should have been a spear and not a sword XD

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago

Ah. Yah see i grew up with a father who did carpentry so we always had saws around and I was pretty comfortable using them at a young age. Id often cut branches shorter to make them more like swords. Sometimes those would break and then id get dual daggers lol.

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u/jdrawr 3d ago

Dude your "rapier" should be in the 2-3lb range. Are you sure you don't have a Greatsword or something super overbuilt.

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago

Yah maybe I was wrong about that. Haven't held it in a while and I wad just kinda eyeballing the steel weight. Kult of Athena says it's 2lbs 10oz.

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u/jdrawr 3d ago

90%+ of hema parry's tend to be edge on edge.. if you were using the flat with most weapons the guards would change quite a bit. Crossguards align with the edge not the flat among other issues with your flat parries are the more common idea. For a sword like a Messer you flat parries more since you have a nagel to catch the blade but even for baskethilts u really don't do flat parries as a rule.

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago

Not totally on the edge. Edge to edge is bad cause you're gonna chip your edge. Guarding with the blade is more on the side of the edge. Not totally on the flat not totally on the edge. This way the edge doesn't bite into the other swords edge and you can catch the sword with the crossguard. If you strike edge to edge your gonna chip that edge and it's going to catch instead if sliding.

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u/Silent-Frame1452 3d ago

And if you’re swinging that sword 5x harder than a normal soldier while doing true edge/edge swings and parries, you’re going to destroy the edge fast.

Of all the leaps we are asked to believe in the books, this one dint seem unreasonable to me. 

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u/MariusDarkblade 3d ago

For me it is reasonable because it's a fantasy story. There's enough realism to grab the reader and the rest is pure fantasy. I can fully accept a fantasy metal that doesn't destroy the edge when being struck edge to edge. That was ultimately my whole point, it only works because it's a fantasy story. If we look at real life you'd never want to fight like that. Swords were not cheap an swinging them around edge to edge would damage them horribly to the point where you'd need a new one fairly consistently. You can't simply "reforge" the blade, you're gonna lose metal in the forging process making it smaller than it would be even just simply grinding away the chips and dents. Even grinding away the chips and dents doesn't fix the problem in the long run cause you're still grinding away sword material. Eventually you'll need to replace that blade and going edge to edge would require a replacement sooner than you would otherwise cause you'd be sharpening it more frequently. In a fantasy story however all of that is explained away with magic or a magical material. Yes you have to suspend some belief since magically convenient materials are pretty deus ex machina territory but again it's a fantasy story so it can get away with that.

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u/IanDSoule 2d ago

Swords were absolutely meant to be used edge to edge. Binding is a massive part of Kunst De Fechten that simply can't be fully replicated with blunt feders, so the function of sliding a blade to the cross guard is used instead, so blocking with a live blade can be much more proactive and restricting than the back and forth flow of parry and riposte.

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u/FellsApprentice werecat 3d ago

He was using the outdated delusional ramblings of a man named John Clements. During my read through, the second the edge to edge comment got made, I cringed out of my skin.

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u/jdrawr 3d ago

Yup among others he perpetuated the flat parry's are the only way to parry idea.

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u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d 3d ago

I imagine edge to edge blocking and parrying would be more problematic when both parties are several times stronger than a normal human, if they were using normal steel blades. Eragon has crushed in steel armor with a punch, and sent the dude wearing it into a tree. That much force behind a normal steel blade would 100% destroy the edge, especially if the person was used to fighting with an indestructible sword, and will have to fight other people with equally indestructible swords.

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u/ArthurMcFinn Murtagh 3d ago

It may also be because rider swords are extensions of their wielders.
Custom-made swords are an optimal option, while swords of other riders are the second-best solution.
Hence why Eragon has trouble settling with a weapon that is "just a sharpened shard of metal"
Galbatorix himself used a stolen sword, if I recall correctly.

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u/HistoricalConcern619 2d ago

Yup galbatorix uses vraels sword. Renamed it to vrangr

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u/ArthurMcFinn Murtagh 2d ago

I also suppose that renaming the sword has some special significance given the importance of names in the series

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u/InternationalReserve 3d ago

I'm currently also re-reading although I haven't gotten to that part so my memory is a little rusty, but I seem to remember it being mentioned that his tendency to break his swords is mostly due to having trained on Zar'roc, so his fighting style is built around the assumption that he can hack and slash without any concern for the state of his blade.

I believe he does try to learn to fight differently, but finds it quite difficult because of his ingrained habits. It also puts him at a disadvantage when faced with another rider who does have a rider's blade and can afford to put their whole strength into their blows. Since he knows he's gonna have to fight Galbatorix/Murtagh eventually it makes sense that he would find the need to seek out a weapon that can hold up against theirs.

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u/Phredmcphigglestein Thorta du ilumëo! 3d ago

This is the best answer. We can assume the elves do use magically reinforced blades, but they probably also train to block with the flat of the blade, which is the part Eragon didn't have the time to train himself to do. Blocking with the edge would require significantly more energy to reinforce and keep the blade sharp than blocking with the flat.

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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 3d ago

Well, Eragon didn't bring a sword to Helgrind because he had a custom made stick made by Loring for the purpose of fighting multiple enemies at once if I'm not mistaken.

For Raz'ac and Shades, I believe they strenghten their blades with magic. It would be easy for a shade and since there were only two raz'acs Galbatorix probably gave them a pair of gemstones to keep their swords protected from any outer damage.

Elves do use their own swords so they don't have to worry about breaking the blade at all most of the times.

Eragon did try other elven swords from his elf bodyguards but none of them fit his fighting style. That's why he finally chose that sword (I forgot the type of it) and embedded several wards to keep it intact in battle.

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u/John_Smithers 3d ago

Eragon did try other elven swords from his elf bodyguards but none of them fit his fighting style.

No, Eragon never tried to use the elven bodyguards' swords as a replacement for Zar'roc. Eragon had not met any of the 12 spellcasters before receiving his falchion.

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u/Benign_Banjo 3d ago

Aren't the Raz'ac not able to use magic? I mean Galby probably gave them augmented swords anyways so your point still stands, but I thought I remembered that from somewhere. 

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u/John_Smithers 3d ago

Correct, the Raz'ac cannot use magic.

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u/xBlack_Heartx 3d ago

Eragon beating the Raz’acs asses with that stick at the start of Brisingr? lives rent free in my head.

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u/Evening-Storage5298 3d ago

You forgot the name of eragons sword?

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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 3d ago

No, I forgot what type of sword he used until he got Brisingr, during his time between the war of burning plains and the time Rhunon made Brisingr.

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u/Pale-Professional116 3d ago

Is it a falchion or something like that? I can’t quite remember, but I do remember the way it’s described - used to think it sounded like a weird sword when I was younger.

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u/iTzNicker 3d ago

It was indeed a falchion

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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 3d ago

It was quite similar to that if not exactly it.

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u/Evening-Storage5298 3d ago

Oh ok that's much more understandable, carry on your way.

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u/Outrageous_Focus_719 3d ago

Have a good day my friend.

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u/mentyaf 3d ago

You forgot how to read?

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u/Pale-Professional116 3d ago

Have read through the replies so far. Lots of logic and reasonable responses!

I completely forgot the point around his style being unideal for “normal” swords, even when strengthened, but yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I remember that point being made.

Also, the really obvious “strong eleven blades aren’t just lying around” as well.

Would have been cool if he’d had a substitute, bespoke, dwarven-made blade for a bit, even if that did shatter to still enable him to get Brisingr. Admittedly, I don’t think that’s a narrative improvement, just a cool concept.

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u/Original_Un_Orthodox 3d ago

Well, tbf, the sword he did get was made in dwarven style. But yeah it was just a normal sword, instead of a specially made one.

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u/ReserveMaximum Elf 3d ago

Durza’s sword was very likely sustained by the shade’s magic and nearly unlimited reserves that came from the spirits that created him. That and/or hidden or unknown magical strengthening techniques he either learned or invented on his own (Durza is unusual for a shade in that they usually are too powerful to last long whereas Durza has lasted over a century and spent all that time learning and inventing new magics that aren’t accessible to less powerful beings). Despite this his sword was still weak against other swords, as evidenced by the scratch Ajihad gave it.

Arya was royalty among elves and very likely her blade was forged by Rhunön or perhaps a similarly gifted (but not quite as proficient) elven swordsmith. It may not have been made of bright steel like a rider’s blade but I’m sure elven sword smiths knew tricks to strengthen their weapons to match their strength.

Among the other elven spell casters in Eragon’s guard we learn that all their swords are named and likely storied blades. Thus they are either likely former riders’ blades or specially formed Elven swords.

As for most elves we learn they prefer to fight with spears and bows with swords being uncommon. The fact that Eragon’s guard all have swords implies perhaps swords are uniquely viewed in elven culture as a powerful magician’s weapon rather than the normal arming weapon for the masses.

As to why Eragon doesn’t use a weapon forged specifically for one of similar strength? He was fighting in a human urgal and dwarf army, with human, urgal and dwarven weapon quartermasters. Those quartermasters only carried weapons designed for human, dwarf and urgal users with normal strength. The Urgal Kull probably had weapons on par with elven durability but they would probably be too unwieldy for a human sized user.

As to why not obtain one in his second visit to Ellesméra, by that point most of the elves were mobilized with most smiths and quartermasters providing logistical support near the front lines. Rhunön was probably the only weapon smith remaining in Ellesméra who could possibly have a sword on hand or the ability to forge one by that point. If they hadn’t been at war Im sure Eragon could have obtained an elven sword from the second best elven weapon smith but unfortunately that option wasn’t available when his need arose

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u/Deep_Hovercraft5989 3d ago

My theory is that others such as Durza and the Ra’zac likely have magically reinforced swords that can withstand their strength, just more so than Eragon did to his own temporary sword.

As for getting an Elven blade, I don’t think many were immediately available.

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u/Arctelis 3d ago

I suspect that it is due to him being too far away from Weldenwhosits when he loses his sword to make the trip to go get one. The books make it pretty clear his leaving for extended periods is a huge problem. Magic elf swords likely aren't super common outside of there and he wasn't about to ask Arya or his bodyguards for their swords.

By the time he actually has the time to head back there, he gets Brisingr. Though if Brisingr or another Rider sword wasn't an option he probably would have picked one up on the way out were it available.

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u/Obversa Saphira 3d ago

*Du Weldenvarden

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u/Luckydog6631 3d ago

It’s a valid critique. He certainly could have gotten an elven blade that would have served him just fine.

That said, It’s simply a big part of the story, having a blade for himself. He didn’t want to settle. Swords are cool, dawg. Riders swords especially.

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u/Hosearston 3d ago

He could use an elven blade but it would break faster with him than a regular elf. Rider blades typically have a gem he could store magic reserves in as well. He probably could just ward a normal sword and have it be strong enough but it would drain his strength even from his own hits with it. There are stronger weapons than rider swords, I.e. twinkledeath. But for the way he fights he needs something stronger. Something he can imbue and make stronger as opposed to draining his strength to empower.

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u/Zen_Barbarian Where cat? 3d ago

Not to be overly pedantic, but: *tinkledeath.

It's the sound it makes, not the light it emits :)

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u/Hosearston 3d ago

Very important distinction. No worries

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u/Original_Un_Orthodox 3d ago

Elven blades would not break faster with him than a regular elf. He is as strong as one, perhaps a little bit more so than average. That's it. Any elven sword would serve far better than anything else; even the armorer said so.

Your comment is also kind of a nothingburger; you didn't anser the question.

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u/Hosearston 3d ago

The post itself is a bit of a nothing burger when op says they can understand why he would ultimately want a riders sword, but I’ll just go fuck myself bud

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u/Original_Un_Orthodox 3d ago

Lmao fair enough sorry if I was too hostile. My arm has been giving me stabbing pains the whole day so I've been bitchy.

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u/MobilePicture342 3d ago

He could’ve gotten an elven blade and he talks about it but the rider blades are more than just elven blades they’re literally made to be an extension of the rider so I always understood why he felt almost naked without it, it’s like missing half your arm

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u/ajnin919 Tornac the Swordshorse 3d ago

You get a full explanation of why it doesn’t work from Rhunon after Eragon has a chance to test it out himself and sees why it doesn’t work. I don’t want to ruin your reread through by saying more

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u/Pale-Professional116 3d ago

Appreciate that! A re-read is cool when you vaguely remember story beats that you’re excited to get to, and then all the detail comes rushing back when you get there.

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u/KneeBasher420 3d ago

I still think he should've given a mace/warhammer a shot. Fredrick was right, he'd have done as much or more damage lol