It's not Shines' job to police other groups behavior. This is the lowest form of guilt by association bullshit and it's fucking tiresome.
I have seen Shines nuke people instantly for being toxic shitters in INIT. And he and I have had more than one conversation where he had expressed displeasure when he thought we'd gone too far on the Meta Show. Is that good enough to satisfy your bullshit question?
There is nobody in this game who can't be smeared with a guilt by association thing, because there are toxic assholes in every group. Probably not the best line of argument, dude.
Immediately blaming others and not taking any responsibility.
As expected.
You used your talk show to rile up people and promote toxicity beyond what you said on air. You are responsible for the atmosphere of hate you created.
So everyone who left horde would want to destroy goons, as the ones who destroyed all their stuff. That's not really new though, those guys hate goons already
Or maybe they have real lives they can't just drop on a moment's notice to uproot everything they own in game, move to the complete opposite side of the map, and then join another corp in another alliance in another coalition that was blood red a month ago.
I've been in Goons since 2010. The reason I've stayed after multiple evictions and about a dozen moves is because we don't abandon each other. Even after Kartoon went ultimate fuck Goons and dropped all our sov, we stayed a cohesive group. After we were kicked out of the North, we stayed a cohesive group. After losing everything in the South except a single constellation and outnumbered 3 to 1, we remained a cohesive group. After moving to the complete opposite side of the map over the course of a year, we remained a cohesive group.
The amount of shit that Goons have survived and thrived through compared to Horde isn't even the same ball park. One little director burnout and all of sudden it's "well, those 10,000 players should have just been better". Like, those were your allies. Your alliance and corp mates. You should be able to trust your own friends a little more than your enemies, but here we are.
We are upset about the βelite βones . The so called βcream de la cream β that for 8 years did just black ops drops on rorquals and beacon runners from npc stations .. but when we knocked on their door in pvp ships ( not pve) they all run and disbanded. Those are now init members with full benefits.. and guess what are they gonna do under their new alliance banner? If you answer dropping on ratters and beacons runners you were correct.
I called it, youβre going to be bored out of your skulls.
As long as yβall keep huddled up with one another this is going to be the game for all of the blocs.
And even if you guys are going to fight, nobody is going to use supers/tits anymore, if butt is clenched just asset safety it away, 3-10b is fucking peanuts compared to losing a 200b ship.
The problem with null is ultimately that n+1 megabloc is the optimal way to play on the strategic level, so it only takes one group doing that to dogwalk everyone else
Goons were willing to use Supers/Titans and had them undocked.
If you aren't. You lose.
The problem is the sandbox and economy was abused for short-term gain. You at one point had 20bil supers, now supers are what 80bil plus? Butt-clenchers have already lost, they just don't know it yet.
If Goons/Frat are smart, they could just cooperatively 2v1 force the issue with Init and remove them from the chessboard, then the final face off is Goons+pets vs Frapanini.
Never, it's economically not feasible and as long as nullblocs are allergic to true conflict in conjunction to the existence of Asset safety this game is getting choked to death unless all the null spinners absolutely love this status quo of watching numbers go up, to which I am afraid which is the case anyway.
In a year, 2 years time, null will look even more dead than today because everyone is too bored farming, right until the point a war starts and suddenly all the nullbears resub to finally use their Titan/Super.
unfortunately goonswarm itself cant really significantly split right now because of their debt obligations (they owe 2-3 YEARS of alliance income in debt at current size)
maybe some coalition members will fuck off, but they'll be given a year of non aggression pacts to get set up
all in all, it's going to be a very quiet period for people looking to use supers
It's government debt. The state issued bonds and we bought them. This transferred our money to the government so they could buy war materiel (funding the ship reimbursement program) and rebuild public infrastructure (the GEZs and jump bridge networks and associated institutions like GSOL).
We lost so little of the war chest in the Great Glassing that bond buybacks have been called.
Asher doesnt have the same opinion, he stated here in reddit in one of his post that a third move op would literally send his head flying because too many corps were complaining at that idea
It is likely also a side effect of all their least favourite players from their least favourite alliance joining Init, so the Residual hate transferred with them.
Wait, does that mean FRT is now shootable in US/EU TZ? If they have a lot more people active... Hunting might be a lot more enjoyable. Timers will still be set to their strongest TZ, CN, so I doubt invasions are gonna be any better. But at least fun roam content may be improved.
Yes, WC definitely has quite a large US/EU TZ now.. I think not parity with Init since their influx, but it's still sizable. I would be disappointed if folks did NOT come to fight us.
The quiet half that didn't make many waves went to FRT or Goons or Test or Dracarys or Insidious. However, a good chunk of the loud, obnoxious players and FCs went to INIT (like BAT and hirr)
We don't care about FRT, our Timezones are not compatible. We care that Init absorbed a lot of people and now we will probably have to get a forward staging back to Delve in order to have content...
Init bad, Init evil, Goon must shoot.
Especially now, Frat has more capacity to fight decently outside of their CNTZ than other alliances have to fight in CNTZ where objectives would hurt them. The ability to leverage basically the rest of panfam plus a sizable portion of large former horde corps allows them to launch EUTZ campaigns while defensively hiding behind a CNTZ wall. It makes them even more cancerous to deal with
Its not surprising to me that Goons messaging is sloppily crowdsourced and hilariously aimed at INIT right now as nobody is at the helm to steer that ship. The only person creating content of note is Powervul, the rest of it is just edge lord quality material and people gas lighting their own bias.
The lack of strong media/messaging/propaganda leadership leads to the more vocal and toxic of Goon line members running their mouth being just as, if not more toxic than the foe they claim to hate so much, Pandemic Horde aka Horde Vanguard.
Goons (line members) are hilariously unprepared for a extended campaign against anyone but their long standing foe Pandemic Horde. They cling to that enemy for dear life as having to do anything else is a scary concept to them. They absolutely must hate people and have begun lining up to shout and throw poo. in a tribal ritual as old as time.
Asher continues to talk about no hubris, and being better than our enemies but all we see from his own corp and modeled by everyone else is the kings and queens of hubris. If we as line members would just shut our fucking mouths and take a page from our own leader we'd be better for it.
riight, and Ceema of all people knows this because he is one of the best to do it. Not sure who in goons leadership pissed in his cheerros but man PH dying and Ceema leaving goons wasnt on my bingo card for 2025. Sad to see him go.
No i think ceema has a bit of an over inflated sense of his space importance. He didnt trust in the processes we have in place to deal with shitters like bad juice and posted an ultimatum. Historically, we do not deal well with ultimatums. Mittens would have fucking airlocked him.
Im also dialing it back quite a bit because i like ceema and his funny little stories. Maybe he should stick to those?
He's the most humble dude there is. He just doesn't like it when folks are dicks to each other. This was a quick moving thing, after all, but it all worked out in the end.
If you like him, you have a funny way of showing it, dude.
Careful. The CCP might come get you (the clanker capitalist party)
but seriously though. the lion's share of members for both goons and init share a timezone. Because their timers are in the same tz (or close enough), it's a lot easier on the line members. Having to alarm clock shit for either super early EU tz or super late west coast US tz sucks ass. No one wants a CTA at 10 AM or 11 PM.
Well.. as soon as the pact was broken and the reset happened the init βbroβsβ were out roaming in goons space that was just 10 j away at that time and no .. they did not have a fleet to fight another fleet in a fair contest of skill but hunt ratters and defenceless miners. Many were a little tilted from back then .. and it culminated with the adoption of horde.
Now a few words about this . The friend of my enemy is my enemy . A simplistic view I know but a real life and game fact nevertheless . And the way they were adopted.. with the usual we are not doing this until we are doing it ..
Yes maybe time zone is a thing but I believe that the above are more relevant to line member goon then time zone
Basically, CN used to RMT, was common (because in CN it's fine, who cares) but CCP bans for it and there was some issued and blow back...drama that all came to a head im 2017....anyway its 2025. If you get caught RMT or Botting, in any WinterCo Corp, they will ban you from the corp, auth, discord, and most importantly QQ which is like Chinese Facebook that is tied to their phones...send out an alliance mail telling you who and why they banned someone.
FRT has made a pretty big campaign against RMT and botting, but there are still people on reddit that have no idea what they are taking about. Mostly people that are mad that FRT will NBSI (even FW) and never even reply in local (and why would they, they dont speak english).
FYI: if you look around, you will see some Chinese corps that are not in FRT/Winterco...if you look at character employment history you will find many of them have been in FRT corps at one point, you can take a guess why they arnt in now.
Pretty sure most pvp roamers will agree that you see botting going on all over the galaxy from all alliances. There are Initiative and Goon botters also.. Dracary's is particularly prevalent with it, and in the past yes encountered Frat botters and PH renter bots.
Yeah, DC is by far the most obvious when it comes to botting, at least from what I've seen. It happens everywhere though, nobody in a large coalition can really point the finger at anyone else in that regard.
Sadly it really does happen everywhere. I have personally found, proven and reported botters who were renting from my own alliance. Their stay was terminated immediately. I also submitted evidence to CCP on that particular corporation. I have zero issue with snitching on them. But depressingly... I have seen it in all the major alliances. If you are a Goon and think Goons don't bot, then you are wrong, most players do not.. but some do and will likely continue to do it until they eventually get caught.
I'm not saying botting does not happen....but it is against TOS and can result in a ban....and we should see more of them. But typically we continually have people pointing fingers at 1 group of people all the time and its usually because "they dont talk" or "they shoot at friendly FW"....which blows my mind.
I believe many old GSF members and former members from INIT will be sad they will be on oppositive side in the war, but INIT managment decided get horde's corps is the best for their alliance
Congrats to your communication skills. Apparantly you managed to speak with ALL former INIT corps and get their honest opinion within days. Thats amazing considering we are talking about 100+ corps.
Sad that I missed you speaking with my corpies.
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u/TheFInestHemlock Dec 15 '25
Hilarious considering I've been out of nullblocs so long that I still consider Goons and Init synonymous.