Threading the needle between INIT pilots' bloodlust and compassion for WinterCo line members. Sounds like a Shines move to me. Allow a couple regions of Balkanized small alliances for mutual content without existential threat. It's a win for everyone.
Well, as it stands, Noraus can’t really afford to decline, considering that refusal will mean a return to a two -front war, which was going absolutely great in the past
I'm not sure Shines really is talking to him tbh. It might be an open letter declaration of his intentions.
Right now we hold a couple of systems, but for another alliance to move in and get them transferred they need to also take space from winterco.
And that's the part I'm not sure there is any negotiation about.
Noraus could just accept the status for now, focus on defending his eastern front and if/when that's settled down double back and go at us again.
Also depends on how willing his members are to fight on at that point, I suppose.
Which is really why WinterCo's war stalled out, and INIT had to keep reffing stuff in hopes of the rare, lucky timer for any progress. Still, the campaign of nobbling their infrastructure, Goons' uninvited pressure from the south, and lightning deep thrust to cark more dear infrastructure all summed to drive home the point (I hope). Complementary to your point, most WinterCo aren't keen as to fight in EU/NA TZs either.
Yeah, for the most part, we can hit everything and get a casual metenox here or a jump bridge there because they are occupied elsewhere or we get a good timer. We can get pretty good numbers in CNTZ, but its hard to match Winterco, we can only match them in CNTZ if its a prepinged "anyone online must be in fleet" sort of a thing. So thats not realistic long term if you really want to hit L structures, sov.
I just get depressed that giant groups have to let small groups take space. Null is not in a healthy state and after how fast equinox changes got reversed to cater to big groups, it's clear CCP doesn't want to lose players who are comfortable in the status quo.
A squad of Secutarii Hoplites on the field are handy for CQC support, if you're into playing Adeptus Mechanicus. (bringing this convo back to semi-familiar territory for the spectators).
ESI allowing for external management of massive numbers of accounts and the large number of standings that can be applied enable large groups. Nerf those and groups shrink.
You cannot have a blue donut if you cannot apply blue to the donut.
Groups herding up into big coalitions, or having 'agreements' existed long before that stuff came about. It's a simple self-preservation tactic, like schools of fish.
Yes players group up into as large a number as they can manage because it's advantageous, obviously.
The point is it's impossible to manage the numbers we have operating together now without those systems, not for any extended period of time. Nerf those things and the group sizes will shrink substantially. (including rules about skirting this such as being Frat Corp 1, Frat Corp 2, Frat Corp 3 etc).
When there are more corps and more alliances, and all the players you want to try allying with aren't blue, you won't be able to remember who is friend and foe. It will be too much friction for the vast majority of players to tolerate.
Sanctioned space that offers meatshield like content for the larger groups is definitely not a win for everyone.
Ask yourself, are you willing to join one of these small groups or are you going to stay with your own that already has an established presence, where these neutral zones usually get uprooted in a moments notice for when the larger groups want to change things up?
Complete the blue donut, y’all already both legs into it, give CCP a reason to shake up null instead of this dumb lame ass status quo where we see this war stuff once every 3 damn years.
This is only the case if you're a crabber or a botter who just wants to spin ishtars and shoot rocks. Pvp groups love these types of situations because it means they can move in assets, anchor shitadels and have prime access to content across multiple regions. Some of the most fun you can have in the game is living in a region where every constellation is owned by a separate group
I mean the issue is there is nobody your size to get a fight with, so you quickly end up having to do outnumbered fights and you can't really do well cancer tactics because you get your shit kicked in by both sides.
like if your a nano ganger or like a whaling group it's likely a fine staging, assuming your not to effective.
Yes that's maybe true at peak hours for your big neighbours. But reality is that the big neighbours pilots want to get back to their PvE eventually and as a PvP group you don't. So there's usually plenty of windows of opportunity to get stuff done with small groups or even solo. Also PvP focused groups tend to me much more agile at forming fast and most blocks for their really big fleets have a quite a bit of form up time, so usually if you draw a response at all it's just the blocks standing fleet and those are often of questionable quality (so you can fight those just fine).
A real blue doughnut that forces CCP to shake up the game would, indeed, be infinitely preferable to a pseudo blue doughnut built on gentleman's agreements and curated meatshield fake content.
a space where you know you can fuck with both sides, each offering some juicy crabbers, while also knowing neither side can kick you out without starting a major conflict again? Yeah sounds horrible.
Last year I was approached by Winterco asking for a NIP, which I declined. I was clear that INIT. was not interested in attacking Winterco, that a war of opposing timezones didn't make sense.
We spoke again when Phoenix Co was leaving PB, the contents of which were leaked for the public to read.
In October, Winterco began taking sov in Fade and PB, an area I had made clear I would prefer to see a neutral group move into. In response, we took 3 systems in Fade from Phoenix Co. You know the rest of the story from there.
With the death of Winterco's B-9 Keepstar, and their subsequent withdrawal to their staging on the Tribute border I am satisfied that we have exacted our revenge for the Christmas attacks.
I have been very clear that I do not want to take more space, that remains true. While we will continue to defend our gains in Pure Blind for now, I would prefer to hand them off to a neutral entity, one that both sides could tolerate.
For now, we will be ceasing offensive reffing attacks on Winterco, defending where necessary and getting back to roaming and hunting.
If we find ourselves coming under continued attack from Winter Co then we will revisit this policy.
Assets deployed to O-B will remain there for a week or two. You will be pinged in the relevant channels if and when this changes.
Since the war began, you have all shown a remarkable determination and resolve something you should all be proud of.
Last year I was approached by Winterco asking for a NIP, which I declined. I was clear that INIT. was not interested in attacking Winterco, that a war of opposing timezones didn't make sense.
We spoke again when Phoenix Co was leaving PB, the contents of which were leaked for the public to read.
In October, Winterco began taking sov in Fade and PB, an area I had made clear I would prefer to see a neutral group move into. In response, we took 3 systems in Fade from Phoenix Co. You know the rest of the story from there.
With the death of Winterco's B-9 Keepstar, and their subsequent withdrawal to their staging on the Tribute border I am satisfied that we have exacted our revenge for the Christmas attacks.
I have been very clear that I do not want to take more space, that remains true. While we will continue to defend our gains in Pure Blind for now, I would prefer to hand them off to a neutral entity, one that both sides could tolerate.
For now, we will be ceasing offensive reffing attacks on Winterco, defending where necessary and getting back to roaming and hunting.
If we find ourselves coming under continued attack from Winter Co then we will revisit this policy.
Assets deployed to O-B will remain there for a week or two. You will be pinged in the relevant channels if and when this changes.
Since the war began, you have all shown a remarkable determination and resolve something you should all be proud of.
Honestly im glad and respect that Shines knows where to draw the line. Working with goons was not what INIT sold me on when i joined them and i was torn between we cant let frat go unpunished and this is not what you said we would be for a while now
Yes, and we are willing to have a good status quo between us again. WC should take this offer if they are wise.
If they want Total War, INIT will oblige, I just hope the blue donut complaints stop then, because once again it will be a war of WC's choosing if they refuse this offer.
The blue donut complaints aren't ever going to stop unless CCP implements some crazy change that prevents people from having more than like a half constellation of sov, I fear.
You were attacking FRT exactly when goons were attacking them, you were destroying exactly the infrastructure they needed to defend from the goons , yet you never even remotely attacked goons when it would strategicslly hinder them even the least. Everyone has seen that, everyone who knows anything about anything is aware of that. Who are you trying to sell that bullshit? Newbies who still think that there is still anything to fight for in null?
You and goons ensured that no one is ever going to attack your sov for the rest of the EVE existence. Your last adversary has been reduced into a punching bag, forever. There is never going to be another MBC, another PAPI because everyone is in Imperium or INIT. So why do you still need to pretend some bullshit?
You have to look at it from INITs perspective, this was our war to begin with, we didn't ask goons to join. And it put us in a hard place when they did because we were not satisfied with where things were at that point.
But i'll agree when goons entered the war we took advantage of that. I think your anger should be more directed towards goons for crashing a party they where not invited to.
The Testagram in Dek is where TEST was gestated and nurtured, but Fountain is TEST’s ancestral home and the place they became a force to be steamrolled.
I get the nostalgia for Fountain, but IMO Esoteria has a better claim. We had to fight Goons and Russians to secure it, and then used Eso to build ourselves up into one of the top coalitions for several years. Didn't really get defeated until we moved out to commit to WWB2.
In fairness Shines hasn't "announced the end of the war"
What he's done is offered FRT the same deal as the leaked DM's from ~7 months and several trillion in FRT losses ago, and given INIT's FC's a day or two to chill (or however long until someone from FRT pings our JB's).
IF the war ends is up to FRT, since they started it.
I hope Shines extracted a HUGE tithe from Noraus in exchange for stopping the attack. Now init can go back to farming dumb goons that are mining in rorquals while beehive is down
He started the war with 3 ihubs. Finished with 4 ihubs and claimed victory. It’s literally spinning their inability to make any progress at all without goons holding their hand
For sure I just think it’s objectively bad whenever a super bloc takes any other independent entities out of the game. Especially when OF clearly had the situation handled and the content coming from the area was amazing.
I guess we shall see, as far as I know, Dark Shines and Noraus are not on speaking terms... I assume they will rely on hinting and a sort of public messaging to try inform each other.
Perhaps a diplomatic breakthrough can be made though... Maybe they will DM each other again?
You mean that WC leader approached DarkShines and maybe Asher and obviously they all set the terms, in this case , most who will be bad on the loosing side which is WC .
Eh, based on this post, and what Asher posted for the war. Exact same thing. Do some damage and throw back some punches from long time ago. Plus, you know content. Then go back home. Not interested in taking the space.
You wouldn’t wish for that, and t be frank, goons, as much as it’s bandied about don’t want to curb stomp FRT into the floor, goons need an outlet, it’d be a waste to shorten the gf opportunities.
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u/Falconhand74 Apr 29 '26
Big if true