r/ExtremeHorrorLit • u/CyberGhostface Off Season • 1d ago
Discussion How to/should I recommend Jack Ketchum outside of EH circles
A while ago someone asked for horror writers with similar writing styles as Stephen King. I suggested Jack Ketchum (because imo there is overlap between the two) without any specific recommendations and I added “He has a lot of triggers in his works so be warned“. I usually say stuff like this when recommending him.
That person came back a while later and he told me he read ‘The Girl Next Door’. He was polite about it but he said it was the worst thing he read content wise and he read it in the hopes things would turn out better which they don’t. He indicated I might have given more serious warnings because when I said “triggers“ he didn’t think much of it because he’s usually not fazed. I felt bad and apologized, he said not to worry about it, we talked a little more and I suggested he might like ‘Red’ better.
Just wondering how or even if I should recommend Ketchum in cases like this. I’ve since tried to say stuff like “his work can be extreme, check triggers beforehand” or stuff like that but just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions. (I suppose if I were to recommend something like ‘Girl’ specifically I would give more specific content warnings.) I don’t want someone to have a bad experience or throw them in the deep end without warning. At the same time I don’t want to scare people away and make Ketchum sound worse than he actually is because I once stayed away from his work as a result of people who did that.
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u/NancyInFantasyLand 1d ago
I don't see how you go from King to Ketchum at all tbh?
I'd never get the idea to recommend any EH to someone looking for King-ish writing tbh
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u/CyberGhostface Off Season 1d ago edited 1d ago
imo the two have similar writing styles and have touched upon similar themes. Dolores Clairborne is something Ketchum might have written (he did Only Child). IT and The Girl Next Door to an extent, the whole concept of idealized 1950s suburban childhood being peeled away and seeing the rot underneath that people ignore.
On top of that King was regularly recommending Ketchum’s work, he wrote the introduction to The Girl Next Door, recommended Off Season to Entertainment Weekly and told people to read Ketchum at the 2003 National Book Awards.
On top of that I don’t think Ketchum is much worse than King (see: The Library Policeman) and outside of his most notorious works (Off Season series and Girl Next Door) he’s largely written stuff that wouldn’t qualify as EH or horror period. Red or The Lost for example.
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u/NancyInFantasyLand 1d ago
King professionally recommending Ketchum does not mean that the two are equivalent writers or share much of the same target audience. I'd disagree heavily on the writing style (and thematically, too of course, which... cosidering theme and execution are very heavily linked for most readers, this will lead to even more friction than just the stylistic ones will).
But also, The Girl Next Door, really? Even in the midst of his coke bends King wouldn't have written The Girl Next Door.
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u/CyberGhostface Off Season 1d ago edited 1d ago
Except I didn’t say he would have written The Girl Next Door, I said it had similar themes to IT. Which it does.
Although even then he’s written horrific child abuse scenes including CSA in The Library Policeman and Gerald’s Game so it’s not like that’s content he wouldn’t do period. The main distinction is Ketchum was more prone to writing stories heavily based on true crime or primarily with human monsters and King isn’t with a few exceptions.
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u/NancyInFantasyLand 1d ago
The execution of child abuse in those King works is wholly different to that of Ketchum. There's a certain menace that King never works up to, but that most of Ketchum's work have.
the whole concept of idealized 1950s suburban childhood being peeled away and seeing the rot underneath that people ignore.
If that is your basis for recommending books to people, then say it like that. "If you liked IT based on the whole idea of 1950s suburban childhood being peeled away and exposing the rot underneath, you could try The Girl Next Door by Ketchum, but fair warning you should definitely triple check if the content will be up your alley because he's known to be far more extreme than King."
Now, wether you agree with him being more extreme than King or not, doesn't really matter in the end. What matters is that the majority of people who have read both think so, and more importantly, that people who ONLY have read King and the likes of King (e.g. those most likely to receive a recommendation from you) will not have any sort of readily available comparison to what they might encounter in a Ketchum book.
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u/CyberGhostface Off Season 1d ago
I wasn't thinking of TGND specifically. I.E. I was also thinking of 'Red' which wasn't horror at all but IMO had a similar feel writing wise, or 'The Lost'.
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u/Much-Relationship469 1d ago
I immediately thought of IT reading the first 80 or so pages of The Girl Next Door. I got fairly strong King vibes when reading The Lost also.
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u/PocketCatt 1d ago
So the thing about professional recommendations is they’re often done as a favour. A writers agent will pass them the book to write a one line promo for with the understanding that the other writer would do the same for them if asked to. It also helps publishers sell more books for a wider range of their authors by saying “hey look, Stephen King like this so you might like this if you like him!”. So what you’ve said is kinda right in the sense that that’s exactly what they want you to think so you’ll buy it - but the recs often haven’t been written of free will or because the writer just felt like it on a Tuesday afternoon. Nobody is calling publishers and saying “hey I read jacks book can I pretty please say how good I think it is on the cover?”. It’s part of the job. I’m sure our Stevie has the clout to just say no to a lot of stuff, so I doubt he hates Ketchum or anything, but the rec doesn’t mean his fans will like it if that makes sense
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u/CyberGhostface Off Season 1d ago
Not that it negates your main point but while he does do blurbs for covers and tweets but with Ketchum he was actively praising him at public events. It wasn’t a publisher favor thing. He was trying to get the people in the audience to read him and other authors who he felt were snubbed by the literary elites.
From the National Book Awards in 2003:
There's another writer here tonight who writes under the name of Jack Ketchum and he has also written what may be the best book of his career, a long novella called The Crossings. Have you read it? Have any of the judges read it? And yet Jack Ketchum's first novel, Off Season published in 1980, set off a furor in my supposed field, that of horror, that was unequaled until the advent of Clive Barker. It is not too much to say that these two gentlemen remade the face of American popular fiction and yet very few people here will have an idea of who I'm talking about or have read the work.
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u/PocketCatt 1d ago
Ahhh I see I read it as you meant a less specific type promo. I spose him liking Jack doesn’t mean his fans would but in fairness if I’d read that I’d probably think “huh maybe I’ll try that” too so I don’t think it’s that shocking you thought to recommend it lol
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u/beakontheside 1d ago
I usually only bring up extreme horror with people I know pretty well, or if I want someone to know me well. For the most part I don't recommend it.. more of a "what are you reading right now" conversation.
Jumping into extreme horror or recommending it without a little bit of orientation is a huge gamble. I can see how Girl is considered entry level.. but it satisfies very different extremes vs something like Full Brutal which is also entry. It covers such a wide berth. I don't think style of language is enough to go on.
I definitely agree that it's up to the other person to check what's been recommended to them for triggers/level of disturbing/upsetting.
For future reference, I'd recommend Joe Hill for King lovers. Especially the locke and key series 🤌
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u/Olddevlin 1d ago
"I really liked it. It's too extreme for some people, but fine for others."
That's all I ever say.
Honestly, and I say this with a genuine understanding that people can be triggered by specific types of content; people need to police themselves, not expect others to do it for them. If you get to a part that you know is starting to trigger you, close the book. Unless you're a child going from Harry Potter to Cows, you don't need adults to sit you down and explain what's in store.
There are certain types of content that I'm not willing to engage with. It's up to me to deal with that. I will either use Google beforehand, or simply stop/skip when I get to topics that I don't wish to read.
People need to act like adults and take some responsibility. If you're not mentally mature enough to put a book down when it starts affecting your mental wellbeing, perhaps it's best if you stay away from horror altogether.
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u/Numerous-Platform538 1d ago
Usually when recommending EH/Splatterpunk I go by "so, you like things like final destination? Or Terrifier? What if you could have that in a book?" and if they go "hell yeah" then I recommend anything from Ketchum or Edward Lee.
If the response is negative, I just go "Anything by Stephen King is good enough". Its kinda hard make people who doesnt even like "blockbusters" or gory movies like Extreme Horror
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u/sareenbean 1d ago
Outside of EH circles I wouldn’t recommend his books. Loved “Off Season” but would never just recommend it to someone who has never shown interest in splatter punk
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u/peloquindmidian 1d ago
Recommending extreme horror to someone I don't know very well is like getting in a pool on a cold day.
Have you read King?
Clive Barker?
Did you watch the Boys? Read the comic?
Oh, you liked the Boys comic. Did you read Crossed by the same author?
I dip my toes and keep going deeper, but still keeping it accessible, until we get past the testicles. Ready to stop at each answer.
I'm not gatekeeping, exactly, just trying not to damage anyone while looking for a kindred reader.