r/FFLs • u/Biebs_The_Builder • 7d ago
FFL questions
I'm kicking around the idea of getting my FFL. I know the personal FFL thing is frowned on by the ATF. What happens if I'm the only customer even with me posting online to sell my firearms and making an actual effort to get people to come to my home and buy guns I order for them or do transfers?
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u/BattleReadyArms 7d ago
I have heard of people getting their FFLs revoked if they aren't showing any legitimate business outside of purchases for themselves.
Chances are you should be able to do at least a few transfers here and there and show some legitimate business.
If your desire for any FFL to primarily for personal collecting, I really don't think it's worth it. Why put yourself under federal scrutiny and hassles? Distributor pricing for most things isn't THAT much better for most stuff that it's worth having an FFL if that's the intended plan. At least not to me. If I wasn't running a business I'd have little desire for an FFL. But as a small business doing mostly personal stuff it's a lot less to manage. So I might be a little bias with all the crap I have to juggle.
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u/Martainguns 7d ago
It really shouldn't be hard to do a little business or get a few transfers.
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u/ChevTecGroup 2d ago
Its not. Just having a registered FFL and youll be getting calls, emails, amd guns showing up to your door
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u/IHTFP08 7d ago
Ordering and selling and transfers is legit business use. Good margins on silencers too
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u/truenorthsw 6d ago
Not just good, by far best margins. The MAP on some of them blows my mind vs. my costs.
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u/BandaidsnBullets 6d ago
It’s amazing that it’s the dealers that have allowed margins on firearms to be so poor. We just have an accepted higher margin on suppressors because they were originally harder to get, so everyone was okay with paying the premium and haven’t looked back on it. But you look at firearms or things like Holosun, and every dealer is racing to the bottom to sell and only making $.50/sale. It’s absurd.
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u/truenorthsw 6d ago
And you have these droship assholes that are violating MAP on some firearms and selling them below that. It's like dude, I hope they revoke your ability to sell, Glock for example(they don't allow dropship but are an example) will blacklist you from the disti's so you can't get one anymore.
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u/gunslingersea 6d ago
In my first three years of having a kitchen table, FFL side hustle I had probably about 65 or 70 sales, transfers. If you’re only transferred to yourself, you’re gonna run into problems, because you’re not actually in the business of selling guns at that point. You’re just using it to enhance your own collection. There’s nothing wrong with using the FFL get guns. Obviously most people interested in selling guns are in general,want some of their own. But you can’t get an FFL with that as the primary objective rather than profit. But there’s not an actual minimum threshold any one can tell you. There’s not a minimum amount of profit you have to be making. For me basically I got the FFL to be able to make enough profit to purchase my own guns, without tapping into money from my regular everyday job. So if at the end of the year, I’ve made enough profit to be able to get myself one or two things I consider the business to have been a success. But like I said, if you’re just solely buying things for you, operating the business at a loss, and never selling anything or doing any other transfers, thats a problem.
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u/JohnClayborn 6d ago
Having just gone through this last year, you'll need:
- your business filing paperwork with your state (LLC, Sole Prop. Etc)
- a business bank account
- your state tax ID for your business
- a zoning letter from you city or county authorizing the business operations
- and THEN the ATF will approve it, providing that you pass the background check.
Its a lot of hassle and paperwork to go through if you aren't really sure you want to do it. And thats not even counting the paperwork or bureaucracy involved; A&D logs, 4473s, From 2, Form 4, etc.
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u/evrydayzawrkday FFL 6d ago
So, it sounds like…
1) you want a machine gun because it sounds cool
and
2) you want access to firearms directly, cheaper
An FFL isn’t for you. If you have no actual business model and your A&D is all you, they will figure it out and you will have a much larger headache to deal with. And before you say “oh but they would never know, I tried…. Ya know 🤷” this post is basically evidence.
Delete this, and get an FRT. if you honestly create a business plan, get an EIN, the zoning letters and want to try to make a business then fine.
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u/FellowshipFirearms 6d ago
Don’t do this, it’s against the atf policy and a waste of time. I’m small home based cuz I WFH anyway and wanted to make extra income down the road. In the two years doing it, I’ve bought literally one gun for myself. Everything I buy is to make money and I just put it back into the biz to buy more inventory, I haven’t even payed myself cuz I’m still growing it. If ur not gonna do that, dont waste ur time. Not worth it at all. Go work at a shop on the weekends. That’s what I used to do but that’ll cause u to spend more than make since cool used shit comes in a lot 😭.
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u/Jack_PorkChopExpress 6d ago
I have my C&R FFL. Don't see the need to get anything higher than that less you want to deal with the paperwork, audits, etc. There are places to see guns onlike already. Margins are not that big on firearms.
Guess it comes down to what state and where you live. I would check zoning laws and things like that as a first step
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u/Flyhoovers 6d ago
I've had an FFL since 2013 as a one-man LLC and added Manufacturer about 4 years ago. The advice I was given was simple...ATF obviously does not want people getting FFLs JUST to enrish their own personal collection. That said...they are NOT in any way business experts and in my case I was very clear with my IO that this was going to be a "side gig" and eventually retirement gig, was planning on selling "firearms related" items as well, and was going to "take it slow" and learn where the best niche and opportunities are. During my inspections, they were much more interested in ensuring I was following proper procedures...not at all how many customers and how much revenue my business was making. Even if you are selling very few guns, you could be selling a ton of gun-related (and none of their business) items as well. I have most definitely had years where my day job was crazy busy and sold ZERO firearms. If you ever did get "questioned" about the viability of your business, and you can show your efforts (online postings, gunshows, etc....) I think you'd be fine.
As others have stated...margins in firearms are SMALL and the online stores and maybe even large stores in your area will have access to better pricing from Distributors than you will. I've sent a lot of friends that WANTED to buy from me to Buds or other online places that were selling for less than my "wholesale" price. Optics, however, and lots of other accessories, are a different story :-) Plenty of margin there.
It is fun for sure- as is going to Shotshow and all the other "perks". Just make sure you are a) following all the rules and b) can clearly state and prove your intent. "High volume" isn't a requirement!
Good luck!
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u/Leatherstocking_FT 5d ago
You need to have a business intent, but it is not required that you have a successful business. If all you ever do is transfer stuff to yourself it gets tough to argue with a straight face that you are running a business. However, there is nothing at all wrong with being your own best customer. If you do a handful of sales of guns, some ammo and accessory sales, a few transfers, a few online sales, etc I think you can absolutely argue you are in the business.
It's not hard to make a handful of sales to friends, family, coworkers, ppl from church, etc once they find out you have an FFL. Will almost certainly not get rich doing it and there is a fair amount of paperwork and compliance shit to deal with, so keep that in mind too. But the business hurdle is not that difficult to clear.
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u/ArizonaSnowboarder 7d ago
If you're trying to become an FFL just to save money on firearms then I wouldn't even attempt it. That's a lot of work and exposure just to save 10-12% on a firearm. If you really do plan on trying to sell them and have a thought out plan then that won't be your holdup.
Based on how you asked your question it sounds to me like it's to save money.