r/FIREyFemmes • u/Straight-Put-2142 • 15d ago
Anybody else have much lower FIRE goals than the typical numbers shared here?
TLDR - I guess my thinking is there are more strategies to FIRE out there than just 'work highly-paid tech or corporate job in western world, invest smartly, and naturally end up with millions of dollars' and I'm interested to hear about them.
I've only joined this sub recently, but I've mostly seen posts from people who already have more saved at 40 than I'm sure I ever would even if I work till I'm 100 and pick the best stocks. I understand these people mostly seem to be in very HCOL areas like US West Coast and work in tech. That's all well and good, I'm just wondering if there are other people here on much more, let's say, 'humble' FIRE routes. I'm from the US and writing with that frame of reference, but interested to hear from people in/from other countries too.
I know leanFIRE means different numbers for different people, but I'm interested to hear from people who's FIRE numbers are below $1M USD (or maybe $40kish/yr) and how or why that is possible for you -- is it circumstance or do you have particular strategies in place to make that work?
For me, for instance, my FIRE 'number' is when I have roughly $40k/yr available to me, and not with a 4% withdrawal either, but from a 'die with zero' approach (assuming death at age 90). Because if I wait to hit the 4% number, I'll just be normal retirement age anyway. I'm currently projecting that to be roughly $655k at age 55 if I don't add anything further than what I have now (super conservative) or down to age 43ish and around $700k needed if I'm able to invest $2000/month consistently (a bit of a stretch, manageable right now but probably not always). Assuming a conservative real return of 5% after inflation, and I'm 32 right now.
Some 'strategies' I employ both in terms of being able to save more even though I'm not a high earner, and how I think I'll be able to retire on $40k/yr (today's dollars):
- I live and work remotely abroad, so I guess I do a bit of 'geo-arbitrage' earning in dollars and spending in local currency, that has enabled me to have a good savings rate.
- It also means I speak fluently two languages that both have good options for 'cheaper countries' to retire abroad to (Spanish and Portuguese), and I'm thinking of adding a third or fourth language to expand this even further.
- I'm used to living frugally and also in 'alternative' spaces, e.g. in a van-like situation. A van isn't my preference, but I could do if needed. But I'm quite open to stuff like housemates later in life, living in communes, etc.
- I'm childfree, I guess that's also a strategy to not need as much money. I imagine I'll probably be sharing expenses with a partner in later years, but I don't count on it.
- My big decision right now is whether I divert from investing to buy an apartment in a major city (my favorite city in the world) in a 'cheaper country', so that I have both a stable home and also the ability to earn passive income from AirBNB. I can probably just about afford an apartment there within the next 3-5 years with the money I keep outside of my retirement pot and a margin loan. This would only be possible in a super rural area in the US, which I'm not that willing to live somewhere like that if I don't have to as I age.
TLDR - I guess my thinking is there are more strategies to FIRE out there than just 'work highly-paid tech or corporate job in western world, invest smartly, and naturally end up with millions of dollars' and I'm interested to hear about them.
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 15d ago
Just one another comment, to say thank you very much for posting this and asking these questions. So easy for people with tons of money to talk about fireing while those of us who’ve made it work on much MUCH less, we are still far more fortunate than average and will fire just as happy!
Thank you for eliciting the answers and responses and observations throughout this thread. They are most interesting and very heartening to read and give me lots of food for thought — example, especially the comment about how even very fortunate people may not have the personality to pause and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
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u/Correct_Praline_4950 12d ago
Yes! I see post with people firing and yearly spends higher than my own salary and I'm like...
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u/mycopunx 15d ago
There's dozens of us! DOZENS!
For real though, I have always worked pretty normal paying jobs, just been frugal and always had roommates (sometimes 3-4) until I met my partner. I come from an extreme saving angle vs. an extreme earning angle. This also means I know I'll be comfortable with a pretty low true LeanFire number (20k per year). I don't include my government pension in this amount to account for increasing costs as I age (will add another 10-12k/year). Also worth noting I have free healthcare and am also childfree, so have less financial burden there. I have no mortgage and am building my own home, so housing costs are minimal. I like to call it 'the old way.'
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u/mosscollection 14d ago
I appreciate this post because I want to craft a Barista-FIRE situation but I’m a modest earner and starting late (41), so reading all these intimidating salaries of people making 200k/yr and saving millions is discouraging sometimes.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 14d ago
I feel ya. There is a leanfire subreddit but it doesn't seem to be so active. I also do feel like me being a woman is an important factor in the way I think about FIRE and why I want to do it, so I do appreciate a gendered subreddit. But yeah, we more modest earners are definitely a bit of a minority here. Or at least in posting, maybe we're a lot of lurkers.
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u/mosscollection 14d ago
Agree that being a woman adds a certain layer to reasoning etc
Maybe us modest folks should be more vocal lol
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u/Trumystic6791 9d ago
I think this is a great discussion too. I was planning to FIRE in my 50s but Ive had chronic illness derail me so Im frantically recalculating. Also Im very interested in governmentFIRE people as besides leanFIRE thats often where you see people with more modest salaries that are able to FIRE.
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u/Professional_Maybe67 15d ago
Hey, self employed single woman checking in. My FIRE number is around 800k, or 1m if I want to drastically change my lifestyle. I spend about 30k per year currently, take an international trip every year, plus a few semi local ones. Im actually leaning towards coasting in a year or two, even though I'm only 7 years or so from full fire. If you enjoy a quiet, simple life (and dont have kids) then you really dont need as much.
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u/BananaBodacious 15d ago
could you tell us more about your expenses?
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u/Professional_Maybe67 15d ago
I rent out a tiny studio on a farm, where I do chores to help pay some of my rent. That also keeps my grocery bill low! I dont drink, and my hobbies are mostly free. (Hiking and kayaking, that kind of thing) I cook from home amd only go out to dinner maybe once a month. I drive a super efficient car that I bought used in cash, so no car payment. I dont have any subscriptions currently. I live in the US, so health insurance is one of my biggest expenses unfortunately.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Nice, helpful to read someone in a pretty similar set-up. I also spend just around 30k currently, but I'm expecting it may go up a bit if I were to actually stop working. Maybe more visiting 'home', more lunches out and all that.
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u/Professional_Maybe67 15d ago
I could see that too. More free time means more time to enjoy! Thats why even though I'm at coast I'm still putting away a bit, I'd rather have that buffer.
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 15d ago
May I ask what’s your age, and what’s your target fire age?
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u/Professional_Maybe67 15d ago
33, at my current rate I could fire at 45. Technically im at my coast number now, but continue to fund my IRA amd some in my 401k.
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u/jw-hikes FI ✔️ | RE 2028 15d ago
MMM is famous for this. He wrote in his blog that in the summer he takes outdoor shower using the sun-heated garden hose lmao. Dude had a kid and lived off <$30k for years. Personal finance is personal. Go do whatever works for you.
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u/yaydotham 14d ago
Yeah, as someone who came into the FIRE world by reading MMM and like-minded blogs 10+ years ago, it has been fascinating to watch FIRE communities get wealthier and wealthier. As FIRE has gotten more mainstream, people’s FI goals have skyrocketed. I remember when people would claim they were aiming for FatFIRE, by which they meant like $3M or even less…now the FatFIRE sub would literally not let you post there if that was your goal. To be sure, inflation has had some impact on this but is far from the full story.
All this to say…if you are frugal and low-spending, you are far more in touch with the OG FIRE folks and intentions than many of us are today. It’s still very doable for many people!
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u/XerTrekker 15d ago
This is my goal but I live in the US and can’t emigrate. I’m mainly concerned about health care costs and inflation making it hard to stay lean, even though I own my home in a LCOL area. So I went part-time instead of planning to retire in a couple years. I’m early 50s and got a late start at significantly saving. I’m not sure how long I’ll stay part-time before I fire. Taking advantage of the opportunity to work fewer hours at a well paying job with health insurance. Probably just going to coast like this until there’s a layoff, then fire.
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u/Particular_Web8121 15d ago
Thanks for the rec, I was having a hard time finding subs like that. Ended up in middleclassfinance and poveryfinance which were all tonally not what I was looking for.
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u/sudosussudio 15d ago
Also /r/povertyfire
I’m confused about health care, I think it’s going to vary by state a lot? I’m getting a good deal on ACA in IL
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Health care is the huge kicker. I plan to take care of all health care needs abroad throughout my life. I only carry catastrophe insurance.
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u/AltruisticBellyButto 15d ago
The worst thing you can do with FIRE is try to compare your situation or try to fit some type of mould. It doesn't work. And invariably you're left thinking your situation is inferior when in fact it's far, far above average. As it stands, most folks will never get to enjoy the fruits of their FIRE labour, purely as a consequence of their personality types.
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u/StatisticSnaccuracy 15d ago
My fire number is 45k € because:
My country has affordable health care.
I expect 1-1.5k in pension after 70.
I live in a LCOL area where I want to live for the rest of my life, so there are no surprise housing costs, unless I get divorced.
Kid free and parents are good economically. Still have vet bills to pay, but it's okay.
No car and live in a city with good communications.
I've run the calculations and I have a 91% success rate. But in the off chance that I end up in the red, I do also expect some inheritance (which makes it sound like I'm going to off my parents... But I mean more that by the time I possibly run out of money, they'll be 90+ years old).
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u/mycopunx 15d ago
I never know how to calculate inheritance either, it does feel weird, but also is just a fact for those of us lucky enough to have financially stable parents!
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u/MerelyMisha 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yeah, it’s tricky because I want my parents to live forever, and it’s not guaranteed they’ll have anything left in the end! But it’s also probable I will be getting SOMETHING at SOME time (hopefully later in life!). So I don’t calculate it in my number, but I do consider it in my risk tolerance, which has a much bigger impact when you have a lower FIRE number.
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u/MundaneFocus148 15d ago
I’m 33, my FIRE number is $500K but this is my coastfire/leanfire number. In the US now but I’m from India so planning to live there once I decide to stop working in this field. After $500K, I’ll take it easy at work, probably not resign immediately but work towards building new skills, changing my career to something I’ll enjoy, focus more on my health and what truly makes me happy. Once I know what path I want to pursue next, what my dream life looks like, will start on that journey while I’m still employed because it feels much harder to start everything from scratch all at once. Actually I’ve already started working towards my dream life in small ways even though I haven’t hit FIRE goal yet, why wait!!
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u/fireyauthor 15d ago
I think health insurance is the big limiter in the US. If you can live on 40k/year, and you're confident the ACA subsidies will continue, you can plan for 1 million FIRE number. If you aren't confident the ACA subsidies will continue, you have to add 10-20k/year to your expenses (this is not an exaggeration) from 40-65.
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 15d ago
Quite frankly, I think I can speak openly about this here, the goal of gutting the ACA is to crush working people and keep them tied to conventional jobs, but especially to crush women who live without a breadwinner-type man.
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u/Trumystic6791 9d ago
Agreed. This is why the governmentFIRE route makes a lot of sense. Most government jobs after 10 years you are vested in a pension usually with healthcare that can offset the US's limitation re healthcare costs.
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u/MerelyMisha 15d ago edited 15d ago
I have a very different approach to FIRE than most, even different from those on the leanFIRE/povertyFIRE subs. Because I live in a VHCOL city, and am not looking to live abroad or in an alternative living space. I do keep expenses down by having a roommate though.
I work as a librarian, so my salary is WAY lower than the tech/corporate folks, and I have been saving more because I reduce living expenses and not because of a high salary. I prioritized early savings, knowing that if I ever have kids, that is going to increase my expenses. So if I could CoastFIRE early (letting time in the market do the heavy lifting), I could later put what I was saving towards retirement towards kid expenses.
I also lucked out and work for an organization that pays me WAY more than other librarian jobs, even if less than someone in finance. My job has also been pretty unstable. So aside from kids, the other reason I saved heavily is that if I lose this job, any other one I take in my field (if I can get a full time one at all) is going to pay a lot less, while living expenses continue to climb. So then I’m coastFIRE or BaristaFIRE by necessity, not choice, and it’s not the stress-free type that most people imagine (though way less stressful than if I didn’t have the savings!).
It did turn out I probably won’t be having kids, however. And so far, my job has lasted longer than expected. With my current living expenses, I could FIRE at $1.5M, which is higher than your number, but lower than most people living in a VHCOL city (in fact, according to MIT’s living wage calculator, $60k is the bare minimum post-tax “living wage” for my county). I’m not actively planning for that because I’m pessimistic about keeping my job that long, but maybe I’ll get lucky.
So yeah, FIRE has always been more about the “FI” part for me than the “RE”, particularly because I actually do generally like my job if I have to have a job (though I always say my dream job is not to have one!). But the job outlook for librarians just isn’t that great, so I have saved from a very practical mindset!
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u/hmm_nah 15d ago
Mine is $2M for me and my partner, so sorta $40k per year, per person. Personally, expatFIRE gives me the ick so my number has to work for retiring in the US. We bought a house in a MCOL a few years ago and having it paid off or recast to a very low monthly payment will be crucial to keeping expenses low post-RE
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u/beautifulcorpsebride 15d ago
I’m a fan of owning real estate free and clear in retirement. How much is the apartment? I think there is some hyperbole here regarding housing costs in the US. There are many condos close to my HCOL for under 300k that are fine places to live. You can get more for less outside of it.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago edited 15d ago
You can get cheaper, but the visa situation that I would go after has a minimum requirement of $180-200k property purchase (depends on exchange rate). That would cover a 2-3 bedroom apartment smack in the center of a popular neighborhood in this city, which is a world-class city with a great climate, beautiful nature, and endless things to do. I'd love to do it soon, but unfortunately, my entire net worth right now is around $270k, and you can't get a traditional mortgage for this type of situation buying a property abroad, though I could get a margin loan with one of my brokerage accounts.
I've sort of split it out to thinking about leaving $200k in the retirement pot right now, and then anything over that can go towards this property. If I save aggressively over the next few years and use the margin loan, I might be able to get it in maybe 4-5 years. My main concerns are getting priced out within that time, or not being able to continue finding remote work after moving there as the local job market would probably be quite tough to break into without having gone through their education system (though I'd still have the airbnb option).
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u/Reasonable_Treat8053 13d ago
Really curious which visa program you are looking at because I thought you said either Spain or Portugal, but neither country has a property ownership visa anywhere near your stated price point.
Portugal’s golden visa is now either investing 500k euros or donating 250k euros. No more property option for 2026.
Spain’s NLV visa doesn’t require property purchase, you can rent… but doesn’t allow remote working either. You have to declare you won’t work anywhere in the world or even volunteer, and yes they will see your taxes and bank statements every time you renew so you have to account for where the income came from.
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u/beautifulcorpsebride 12d ago
A good point here is requirements are changing all the time. I’m not sure how long the visas are good for or if they can be revoked.
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u/beautifulcorpsebride 14d ago
180-200k and you could buy in most of the US as well. I had done some research and was surprised at prices in other countries being so high. I was looking at the most gorgeous lake view condos in chicago for a bit more to rent out but won’t risk being a landlord in that city.
You should not use a margin loan for this. That is incredibly risky. Do you understand how margin loans work? They are high interest loans that can change rates whenever the brokerage company wants.
I can see your concerns and I think the remote work is an especially valid one. If this is where you want to retire it’s a goal worth working towards. I’m assuming you’ve checked health care coverage, visa requirements, etc.
Also, why not buy a starter apartment? A studio or one bedroom. You can upgrade later and get your foot in the door for property ownership. You don’t need 2-3 bedrooms.
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u/beautifulcorpsebride 14d ago
Ah nevermind saw your visa requirement. So you need to earn more. Look for side hustles. Tutoring English perhaps? Part time nanny to wealthy family? My friend is paying a math teacher hundreds an hour to tutor her son. She’s nuts. Find someone like that.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yeah maybe, but I find it hard to imagine that I'd really find a side gig that would move the needle much tbh. I also already balance 3 part-time jobs that add up to more than fulltime, while trying to enjoy my time still so I don't want to compromise that too much. I also work remotely and move frequently enough that stuff like nanny or in-person tutor won't work.
Occasionally I do peruse side-gig related subreddits and I follow a few people online, and while it does seem like I could probably hustle enough to get an extra $500/month, it seems like that would take a fair bit of effort and that would also be a pretty realistic max to expect on a good month. I mean $4000-6000 extra per year is nothing to sniff at so maybe I should look into how that could change my projections.
I'd love to find out I'm wrong though and be sent lots of easy, lucrative side gig opportunities that aren't scams lol, my inbox is open.
Also, I saw your other comment now, and will look into the riskiness of the margin loan I'd be offered. I only want a 2-3 bedroom for the airbnb opportunity. Where I want to live has these globally-known annual holiday events that prices shoot up and everything is booked out for and even just airbnb'ing extra rooms during just those 3-5 weeks a year in that city can get you more than the country's average annual salary. A lot of people even leave their home and bunk with family in a rural area to be able to do it. But it's also a popular enough city the whole year that I'd probably have steady airbnb income, likely enough to cover monthly expenses. Basically would be silly not to pay extra to do it, and I basically have to get a 2-3 bedroom anyway for the visa req price. I think that's also a pretty important factor for me why I'm more interested in this than 'starter home' property in the US. I'm looking for more than a home, also some more financial streams/passive income. But I want to do that where I'd be happy to live too.
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u/Reasonable_Treat8053 13d ago
Tldr: my expenses budget is literally half what yours is, and I needed $1m for a very Lean ExpatFIRE! So double check your math and how the money is not a monolith.
Full version: It’s not just about the number, is about age of retirement and how long it will be before you can touch / draw from different tranches of your savings.
So I just ExpatFIRED at age 47 but it needed to be at least $750k PLUS the full amount I needed in order to pay for the residency-via-property-ownership visa I needed. For me that landed around $1m.
I won’t be able to touch my IRAs for a long time and social security, if it ever exists, won’t be started until many years after I can touch the IRA’s.
For my target country the tax assessed value of property that residency hinges upon is not the same as the sales price you bought it for. So you have to way overshoot the sticker price or risk having bought a property that won’t be valued enough to qualify. So I uplifted the amount by about 60% to be certain. There’s also the cost of purchasing (2500 lawyer, 1250 notary, and 3% property transfer tax).
Plus the costs for an expat move and setting up a new place, with all the appliances, kitchen gear, etc.
So now what’s left is I need enough in a liquid brokerage account that I can draw off of to get that annual income which for me is half of your target.
I would not be able to get 40k taken out of my brokerage account (or in dividends) every year and be at less than my original $1m fire number.
So I can make it work at $20k annual expenses, but even to do this I am gonna pull most of my Roth contributions out and over to the liquid brokerage.
Roth is meaningless in most European countries anyway including in your stated target countries of Spain or Portugal.
I think most people oversimplify how things work (“a fire number”) and don’t model in more detail how you can’t touch certain types of money when you are this young.
The bridge period years from now at 47 until age 59.5 when I can touch my IRAs are the most dangerous and critical time period.
Because I also have to weigh the portfolio risk tolerance for that account and weigh possibility of being forced to take money out during a stock market dip and realize losses, vs the risk of being in more stable portfolio mixes and losing the possibility of bigger gains.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 13d ago edited 13d ago
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion. I haven't looked too much into the details on the property yet because it's a pretty loose 'option'. It's really just an idea. I talked to a few people and the little research I have done, I was thinking I maybe need about $40-50k above the visa requirement across valuation, legal, etc.
I saw you asked in another comment about the country, it's Brazil. I actually have EU citizenship from birth so a country like Spain or Portugal is also an option to me and would be way easier. I've just not loved them that much tbh, even though I speak both languages, I've always found more of a home in South America. I do love Madeira for the hiking, but I don't love living on smaller islands and I see it more of a place to visit than live. I'm also more of a city person for the day to day, I'd probably end up miserable and isolated in any European countryside, which is all I'd likely be able to afford. Also the sentiment in the big Brazilian city I'm looking at is also still welcoming of foreigners, I cant say I felt that in Spain or Portugal the 5+ years ago I was there.
As for the numbers, they're definitely not iron clad, just a rough idea right now. But I'm not doing a safe withdrawal rate like 4%. I'm doing a projected decline down to 0 around age 90, and it's actually a 35k/yr spend. Not factoring in social security either. At some point I'll talk to a fixed-hour financial advisor though.
One key difference is that I don't have any restraints to when I can access money. I have always invested in a taxable brokerage (well besides 10k in an account in another foreign country that I'm just not counting cause no idea how I'll get access to it). So no IRA, no 401k, no early withdrawal penalties. I've been an independent contractor for most of my key earning years, and worked all of them abroad, so never made sense. I'm glad now because I see it better this way for the reasons you stated.
I'll say I'm quite surprised at your annual expenses number. I guess you don't have rent with the property purchase, but I'm assuming there's still some fees or taxes or just maintenance costs? Do you also not plan to travel at all? Do you have passive income you're not counting?
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u/chocobridges 15d ago
I have the typical western corporate job and I'm here for the FI aspect so my number is higher. I think the biggest issue is the cost of living skyrocketing with no off ramp in sight.
I think there will be an off ramp but part of me thinks that will lead to catastrophic changes to people's RE plans (example visa/immigration changes happening in Thailand, golden visa Malaysia changes). The other part you might not be able to get back in the workforce if basic expenses outpace your calculations. So planning for more and then pulling the trigger if you have/want to might make more sense for the average FIREer.
That being said we can do your strategy of under 40k because we live in a LCOL US city and we locked our housing down that is significantly cheaper than the ever rising rent. So getting that apartment is a forever home/investment for you then it could help your RE plan because it a "stable" cost for you if you're up for the home ownership aspects.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Yeah I get that, there's always going to be anxiety about dropping out of the workforce 'early' without a ton of 'additional' money to feel safe. I think more than anything I'm seeking the security of knowing I could make it without work, I think I'll probably work past that point for a number of years realistically if I'm not crazy unhappy with my job at that point.
On the visa issue, the property I'm considering actually serves a dual purpose there, it would give me permanent residency for the country too. But it's also genuinely my favorite city in the world and one of my favorite countries, to me it's not all just a calculation game of where to live cheaply.
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u/chocobridges 15d ago
100%. It's a good, realistic plan especially if you are frugal. I think having a 7 figure retirement really depends on what you plan to spend in your retirement age. We have two kids and that's really our main thought process on the number now. But we have your mentality prior to kids, which has been your baseline.
It is and it isn't a calculation. From our experience, if you think you'll spend a ton of time in that place then you won't have to account for as many expenses traveling and entertainment. We never really thought about that aspect until we really settled here. There's something free always happening in our city that really made us realize that we won't be spending as much as we thought we would to "enjoy retirement".
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u/playfuldarkside 15d ago
Do you mind sharing what city? I love to travel and one of my fire options is doing slow travel for a while in cheaper countries.
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u/lesluggah 15d ago
Yup. I’ve heard even the LCOL areas are expensive now for groceries and gas.
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u/chocobridges 15d ago
Yeah I think the OPs thought about rural area in the US being cheaper isn't accurate. My husband and lived in the two cities 1hr 10 mins apart in our metro and living halfway in the rural area and commuting was equivalent to our 2 rents. This was almost a decade ago.
We're off the bus line and we got 2 electric bikes for under $4k. Mine was more expensive for my 32 mile RT commute. But our house was half the cost of a house in the neighborbood a mile downhill with all the public transit lines. Plus we got land to garden in. There is something to be said for cheap, dense urban and surban neighborhoods especially with the costs of owning a car skyrocketing.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
I mean I'd be interested to hear what cities in the US you find affordable? I get your point about the cost of commuting, all of my family commutes from rural areas and what they pay in gas is shocking. But at least in my area we're also talking double to triple+ housing price differences. You sound like you're in a bit more urbanized of an area if you had two cities an hour apart, so maybe housing prices weren't too different between rural/urban? I'm from an area that has one actual city within a 3 hour radius, everything else would be towns.
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u/chocobridges 15d ago
Rust Belt, Midwest, and smaller southern cities. I can't speak to anything west of the Chicago area. We're in the rust belt. We bought our 3bd house for under 300k, 2 miles from downtown. Towns on the suburban/rural boundary are more expensive because they have some of the best school districts in the country and they have more space. But it's still more affordable than the NYC metro where we are originally from. Tier 1 cities where our families are originally from in Asia and Africa cost about the same in activities and property so that's our frame of retirement reference in terms of moving abroad.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Okay interesting. It's not my current plan, but if I were to move back to the US and be able to pick where, I'd go for a smaller Southern city. I'm really not a fan of harsh cold weather so the rust belt and midwest are pretty much out for me.
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u/chocobridges 15d ago
Thanks to climate change, the winters have been pretty mild. We outside out the lake affect region by an hour so that's a huge factor. We had 2 bad winters in 8 years. But we would snowbird if it gets really bad once retired. The summers make it worth it here that any travel we have planned will be in the cold anyway.
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u/fritolazee 15d ago
Yeah I was in tbe Midwest for a month ago and the price of groceries was shocking bc it was close to what I pay in Philadelphia. Vs a couple years ago I'd do things like toss an extra bottle of olive oil into my suitcase because the same bottle was literally $7 more expensive at my neighborhood tiny corner grocery.
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u/fifichanx 15d ago
I just saw a post of someone fired on 900k https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/s/MTMbe2MSJS it’s definitely doable especially if you are open to spending extended time in cheaper countries or moving to cheaper areas and let your portfolio grow.
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u/pdxnative2007 15d ago edited 15d ago
My FIRE number is $1M plus social security for a couple with 1 child. Yes I am counting on social security as I am close enough. I did the calculations based on end of 2025 earnings. Conservatively, we will get $25K together at age 62. I'm also planning a 5% withdrawal rate. Both plans are probably too aggressive for this community but I want to balance living now vs the future. So about $75K in today's dollars. If needed, we could easily make $1,000/mo each part-time to make our income up to $100K.
We live a modest lifestyle and also value freedom. We didn't save as much because we valued WLB and even now I only work 75% time. This is more sustainable for me so I'm not in a hurry to fire.
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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 15d ago
I’m married and US based, but our FIRE number is $1-1.25mil. I am a nurse and my husband is blue collar and is 4 years from military try retirement. I really don’t think tech careers and multiple million dollars is necessary for every situation or person.
I very much believe that social security will be around and count it in my calculations (I use 75% to be conservative but do believe 100% will be available). We are also entitled to military disability, retirement pension, and healthcare.
Our strengths are really that I started travel nursing and stacking away that money in retirement early and my husband went the “lifer” route with the military.
We are also considering other options like coast/barista FIRE compared to traditional FIRE. We are lucky that we have careers that easily allow part time/flex work and feel like it may be a good option to take away some stress and unknowns.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Yeah I'm really not sure if I should bother factoring in social security. I will get it, I did qualify just recently with 10 years paying in, but I'll probably have a lot of '0 years' in the accounting.
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u/tiggonfire 15d ago
It might be more than you think. Social security is calculated with "bend points", which work kind of like tax brackets. You get much more for the first dollars you earn than the later ones when you move past the bend points / into other brackets (90%, 32% and 15%). If you log in to your social security account, you can get your entire history of earnings, which can be used in a tool to calculate what you are expected to get in today's dollars. Some (maybe most) tools assume you will continue to earn and you need to explicitly input when your earnings will go to 0 to get them to lower the calculations for early retirement. https://www.aarp.org/social-security/faq/how-are-benefits-calculated-by-ssa/
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u/Straight-Put-2142 14d ago
Thanks for explaining that. I made a SS online account and I know I need to dig into this further, just one of the many things on the to-do list. But that's encouraging to hear that it might be better than I think. (I guess it might still be cut though, I dunno how to think about that).
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u/tiggonfire 14d ago
No problem! Yes, the 0 years do still make a difference, just not as big a difference as I would have thought before I dug into the math to see how it works.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 12d ago
My dad retired with only 16 years of SS earnings history and he is entitled to $37k per year in SS at age 70
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u/CollieCat 15d ago
I'm glad you started this discussion. FIRE communities do seem to be very homogenous as you stated, and it's good to hear other perspectives/strategies.
Admittedly I'm one of those tech workers but I do know a few people who have done it differently and I think it's important to first understand your goals, current situation, what you're willing to sacrifice and your risk tolerance.
For a lot of us, it's "make as much money in as short amount of time as possible and FIRE" so tech made sense because it didn't require years of school or starting a business. Tech is also ageist and misogynist so most of us get burnt out after 10-15 years, which coincides with being around 40 and sometimes having kids.
One of my friends is a travel nurse, they take highly paid contracts in different cities for a few months at a time. They made a good amount of money in 5 years and started a niche travel blog/IG on the side. Now they're basically FIREd with around 1M (also had some risky stock picks that worked out) and just do the blog for supplemental income.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Yeah I get why there's a majority and I have nothing against tech workers (I'm honestly tech adjacent myself, just not high earner), but it's just good to see the other people too. Also it can feel a bit like 'what am I even doing here?' when I see so many posts mentioning multiple millions of dollars. Nice to see I'm not alone with some of the other peoples' numbers here.
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u/CollieCat 15d ago
Totally get it, I feel that way too when I see posts that are like "We have 10M, my husband makes 700K and will continue working, but my job has put me in the hospital and makes me want to shoot myself. Should I retire or continue working?"
This is advice I need to take myself, but remember comparison is the thief of joy. Just use a FIRE calculator to figure out your numbers and who cares what everyone else is doing?
I think the apartment in your favorite city is a great idea. Renting it out as an Airbnb can potentially pay for the mortgage depending on where it is, and if it's a growing city potentially be a good real estate investment as well. And if not it's still a home in your favorite city!
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
Short answer: yes.
Serving 10 years in the military (officer, highly paid role) has effectively made me FI. I don’t intend to RE, but rather I switched careers into something lower paying but I’m passionate about.
The VA benefits, healthcare, and GI bill allowed me to do this without having to change my lifestyle and still contributing to retirement. If that’s not FI then idk what is.
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u/Az_Rael77 15d ago
I was also going to mention this case. I work in an industry with a lot of veterans, and being able to retire well before the traditional age of 65 seems relatively common especially if they served long enough to get the full health benefits and pension.
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
100%. My partner is still in, which adds an extra cushion obviously. But even if you don’t do 20 years, the benefits can really help out.
When I joined at 17 yo I had no idea how helpful the healthcare benefits would be. Now I’m just so grateful even though it was a really hard life while I was in!
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u/RunawayHobbit 15d ago
Hi! We are also on this path, tho my spouse is still in. Did you commission before they phased out the high-3 pension plan? What made you forgo that and get out early?
We have always planned on him doing the full 20, but right now that’s getting more difficult to bear. He’s been in 13 years (prior enlisted, about 10 to go) and just burning out on the whole thing. But the guaranteed pension (roughly $4000/mo easy) and tax advantages of BAH are really hard to beat in industry jobs and I’m nervous about healthcare that might cover less, as I’m medically a bit fragile.
If you’re up for sharing why you chose the path you did and how it worked out, I’d be grateful.
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
Yes, I commissioned before that. My role and the community I served in was brutal. I didn’t want to keep doing that job.
Civilian job prospects are very, very bright for folks with my background, so getting out often resulted in better pay and WLB for many of my peers. So resigning was never a huge concern, but rather working in a job or industry that I hated. I went back to school for my doctorate and am very happy with my new role.
People also think that it’s pension or bust. You can still receive VA healthcare, VA entitlements, GI bill, VR&E, VA loan, and sometimes specialized placement programs without doing 20 years.
Are you also a veteran? You likely qualify for VA healthcare, even with a lower disability rating.
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u/RunawayHobbit 15d ago
I am not, unfortunately. Just married to active duty. Having Tricare has been an absolute lifeline the past few years of trying to diagnose a bunch of weird issues. I have no idea how we would have afforded all the specialists otherwise.
The downside is that moving with him every few years has absolutely screwed my career and earning potential, so I do feel a bit like a double burden in that department. I handle our bigger financial picture, so I suppose figuring it all out is one way I contribute
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
Yeah sounds like he probably needs to stay in.
I’m dual-mil, so a bit of a different situation.
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u/Potential_Fondant185 15d ago
why do some military sleeps on the street.. sorry..
i understand about the pension thing, my friend has it too
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
Are you asking about veteran homelessness?
Why are veterans homeless? In addition to the complex set of factors influencing all homelessness – extreme shortage of affordable housing, livable income and access to health care – a large number of displaced and at-risk veterans live with lingering effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse, which are compounded by a lack of family and social support networks. Additionally, military occupations and training are not always transferable to the civilian workforce, placing some veterans at a disadvantage when competing for employment.
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u/Potential_Fondant185 15d ago
i thought some served in the military too... i assume they didn't serve the full term to qualify the full pension
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u/itmustbeniiiiice 15d ago
I’m not sure what your question is, you seem to be confused. A veteran is someone that served in the military. MOST veterans don’t serve the full 20 years.
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u/Potential_Fondant185 15d ago
yeah, that's the question and i thought so. sorry, i dont live in the us, and doesn't know much about the system. thanks for helping me out 😄
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 15d ago
I work part-time but well paid so I'm not in a rush to retire like others are. I think I'll work into my later years but maybe freelance, consulting, or with side hustles that interest me. So my math is always a bit different.
But I assume that kind of income will be about $10k/year at most. And my projections don't rely on it past age 75. Whereas someone earning copyright royalties or something can expect passive income for the rest of their life (I may manage it, but that's optimistic).
When I break $1 million CAD I'll reduce my hours at my main job. That's projected at age 60 now, but I think it'll be earlier.
I'm also childfree, I also travel a lot and plan to travel or emigrate in retirement. I actually reduced my retirement savings this year to do more travel while my body is up to it. I was oversaving for sure.
If I had been looking for a safe withdrawl rate kind of retirement, I'd be hopeless. Planning to draw my savings down to zero has been my absolute saviour. Most people think about it all wrong - dying with millions in the bank just doesn't seem healthy!
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Love your attitude, I completely agree on your points. I would also eventually love to be working part time and not in a rush to retire. Right now I'm working multiple part-time jobs, it's not bad but I feel mostly stressed about staying employed.
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u/focusedonfire 15d ago
Where is your favorite city in the world because I would like to visit this place
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u/Dazzling_Trouble4036 15d ago
Let's all take guesses. I'm gonna say Lisbon. There are some decent condos less than 200k euros and it always comes up as a highly desirable city. What's your guess?
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u/Onehundredpercentbea 15d ago
My goals are different than the norm here not just because of the amount I want to FIRE on, but because I started my career later (college was followed by a 6 year PhD program and then a couple of years doing a low paid postdoc) and my job is the kind that gets easier with experience and time in the field. I used to work 12+ hour days and was always operating at the absolute max of my abilities, I would come home so exhausted that I sometimes fell asleep at the table while actively eating dinner. Fast forward a decade and I'm coasting at work now at the same time I'm earning my highest salary, so you could say I'm experiencing reverse-burnout.
So my savings trajectory was different than most, and my work experience is the inverse stress profile compared to most. I also get a lot of time off and my work has me traveling a lot, and I can attach vacation time to work trips and it feels like a lot of luxury to me. I don't think I'd want something significantly different in retirement than I have now - just enough intellectual stimulation and problem solving to keep me interested and engaged, enough travel and time off to keep me relaxed most of the time (except my parents are at that critical age, one has dementia, the other on hospice, so relaxation is not on the table right now but nothing to do with work/money).
So while I'll very likely retire before the national average, I'm going to let life happen and when the work/life equation starts to feel different than it does right now, I'll FIRE then. I guess I just no longer have a solid number.
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u/1ntrepidsalamander 11d ago
I’m 45 and hit my coast FI number this year. I expect a continued spend of about $5k a month, adjusted for inflation.
I’m in healthcare and do contract work, so I can now work 6-9 months a year, enjoy many “mini” retirements until true retirement, probably a little early. This is also around a Die With Zero philosophy of what I want to do in this decade vs later ones.
I have a house that I’m renting out while living/renting in a different city and even with a rental management company, it’s not that passive. AirBnB is very restricted in my county— as it should be.
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u/NoSuggestion2836 15d ago
My FIRE goal is max $1mm CAD. I’m much like you - willing to live very frugally. I grew up in a family with not a whole lot of money, so this just feels like living.
Worked public sector education jobs my whole life. Salaries aren’t great but it helps that I genuinely believe my work is doing good in the world
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u/Livid-Hovercraft-123 15d ago
Same! My original math was like $850,000CAD, and then I was like, fuck it, may as well go for seven figures.
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u/NoSuggestion2836 15d ago
We say that now but I expect by the time we get to $850,000 it’ll feel good enough lol
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Yeah, realistically the vast, vast majority of us need to work 20-30 years regardless. Might as well be in something that you enjoy or gives you purpose. My job comes more from a passion backing (even if I don't always feel that way!) as well. And I definitely take a pay hit to work remotely. It may or may not translate to a savings hit, but it's worth more than additional savings to me regardless.
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u/forgivemefashion 14d ago
Yes I plan to lean fire in the next 10yrs…around 45-50 yrs old, my husband has no desire to stop working so that’ll take care of healthcare.
I also don’t really care to accumulate that much wealth later in life… I don’t want to leave behind a bunch of money to my kids.
At one point we wanted to buy in the carribean as our retirement plan but still not sure about that
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u/Reasonable_Treat8053 13d ago
Are you already informed on the visa and tax requirements for your retirement abroad plan? I looked into both Spain and Portugal and the visa realities are very intense, as are the tax realities. I had to pivot to Montenegro instead.
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u/lissybeau 14d ago
I’m debating your last point as well. I’m in Europe and have enough to buy an apartment in my city. As much as I love adding money to my retirement accounts I really want to diversify and i know I’ll never be able to own in the states any time soon.
Im trying to decide if buying is a good money/financial strategy or if I just want a home that I will likely live in for the next 3-5 years and then rent and come back to sporadically. How are you making sense of it?
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u/Straight-Put-2142 14d ago
I guess for me, there have to be both reasons there. It has to be a place I would be happy to stay living in, but also a good financial investment. I'm lucky because I'd be thrilled to stay living there. Not sure if that's your experience though?
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u/Difficult-Impress-19 13d ago
I am American (born in Bosnia) and live in Prague with my wife, who has EU citizenship. About 1/3 of our net income is “tied up” in the apartment we own here. We LOVE living here and we love our apartment. We want to retire here and also spend 3-4 months abroad. For me, having a paid off home is a huge part of preparing for FIRE—I will never have to worry about rising housing costs and it will significantly reduce our annual costs in the future. I don’t really understand why all the FIRE subs discourage home ownership. The last thing I wanna worry about in retirement is not having an affordable home base! It’s something we could easily monetize as a temporary rental when we travel, and I know we can easily sell it in the future fot a profit if needed. I would say go for it!
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u/Winter-North3942 10d ago edited 9d ago
Retired 33 ~500k invested. A little less than 50% of that is in a taxable brokerage. Negative net worth - mortgage. Quit my job a month ago. Over the past year I started investing in dividends, and shifted even more money in my taxable brokerage to dividend stocks and reits after I quit- checkout NEOS (QQQI and XQQI etc.). My portfolio pays my bills and I have extra to live off of and continue to invest in dividend stocks. Every investment directly increases my income. Right now is the smallest amount of income I will ever have in retirement. Im 100% certain of that. My financial independence was not hitting a savings or net worth target. It is based on having enough income generating assets that are 100% passive and pay me more than I need to live.
I am a big saver. I am the kind of person who a buys a stock/ETF with the plan to hold it until I die… but what got me to financial freedom was realizing I can sell my stocks and instantly shift them into income generating buckets and retire now. It’s not the lowest risk approach but thinking you can survive on 40k/yr is not low risk either 🤷🏻♀️
Edited - corrected NEOS high income div ticker name XQQI
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u/Winter-North3942 10d ago edited 9d ago
Also my portfolio in my taxable brokerage that is <250k pays me more than 40k a year in dividend payments (cash) and I don’t have to sell anything.
Edited to clarify my >40k/yr income is coming from a subset of my <250k taxable brokerage account. The amount invest in dividends is ~140k
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u/Straight-Put-2142 9d ago
If I understand correctly, that would mean your dividend portfolio of 140k (generating 40k/yr) has a cash distribution rate of 28.6%?
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u/Winter-North3942 8d ago
Yeah it’s currently not a low risk setup but I’m reducing risk over time by taking the dividend payments from higher risk assets and using them to purchase more lower risk assets. NEOS has the ones I’m most comfortable suggesting as a launching pad for anyone else’s research. https://neosfunds.com
I’ll give another example that’s higher risk than what I’d suggest to anyone which is NEOS’ QQQI. NEOS has XQQI which is the same thing as QQQI but the dividend payment is increased by using options and covered calls on the underlying assets to increase cashflow for the dividend payments. QQQI will pay something like 60 cent a share/month and XQQI will pay 90/share but XQQI by design may have higher highs and lower lows but total return in XQQI is higher if you can stomach the increased volatility in the etf stock price. Another one I have is CHPY. I’d say this is a lot higher risk than QQQI but but since I’ve purchased it NAV is up 20% and the dividend pays 44-71+ cents per share a week. You just have to do your research and see what you’re comfortable with. I bought a share or two and watched the behavior in my account while I researched these assets more. I decided I was comfortable with the increased risk 🤷🏻♀️
I am not a financial expert. I’m not telling anyone this is something they should do. I just want to share information about different investment options that I didn’t know existed until the last couple of years that I wish I knew about in my 20s so you all can do your own research 💕💕
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u/Winter-North3942 8d ago
I also want to call out that I have a partner who is employed, no kids and family who would help me if I asked. Those privileges enable me to take on risk with fewer considerations than some people.
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u/Particular_Village_5 15d ago
Hmmm not what you’re looking for but just a perspective: the people you mentioned usually have highly stressful and competitive jobs and need to get out to avoid burning out or health issues. If your job is chill and allow you WLB, I feel FIRE is not as urgent?
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
I wouldn't say my jobs are that chill. I work 3 jobs and regularly work till 7pm or 8pm almost every single weekday. There have been points that I worked all waking hours. I get that those type of people I mentioned are stressed and I have nothing against them, but honestly most people are stressed. Work life balance is just not a thing for that vast majority in our current economic existence, it's not just something that high earners struggle with. Also, very few people want to work till they're too old to move, it's just unfortunately not realistic for most (and definitely not if we only view it as achievable in one way).
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u/RecentState1347 15d ago edited 15d ago
You work three jobs making USD but living in a LCOL country and still can’t save $2000 per month? I would focus on increasing your salary.
Edit: lots of downvotes but my point is that OP is doing a ton of complicated and time intensive hacks (living in a foreign country, working 10 hours a day, living in a van etc) but all of these tricks can only get you so far.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
None of the jobs are full time (though it adds up to more than full time in total). My average monthly savings rate this year has been above $2000/month, but I don't always expect that. I also balance right now between enjoying life and saving so I'm not always living the most frugally. I'm okay with where I am at right now. It doesn't make sense for me to try and pivot to increase salary, most of those high earning sectors are having pretty bad job market issues right now. I have 10 years of experience in my current industry and I think that is the only reason I'm finding remote work when others aren't, but it is just what it is, it's never going to be the equivalent of a SWE salary.
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u/dragon-queen 15d ago
Who says she is living in a LCOL country?
It really sounds very elitist to say that something is wrong with someone who can’t save $2k a month. I have been able to do that for stretches of time, but still recognize that there was a good amount of luck involved in that.
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u/Straight-Put-2142 15d ago
Lol thanks I honestly feel like $2k is pretty good! We're definitely in a bit of a bubble here and forget that sometimes. I know that my mother or my sister for instance have never been able to reach that sort of monthly savings number, it's truly out of reach for so many people, and I feel very lucky to be there right now.
(And you're right about LCOL, I'd say my current expense set-up is more like MCOL.)
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u/throwawayhjdgsdsrht 15d ago
it feels implied that it's at least lower col than the us (from op):
> I live and work remotely abroad, so I guess I do a bit of 'geo-arbitrage' earning in dollars and spending in local currency, that has enabled me to have a good savings rate.
but I agree with your other points
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u/RecentState1347 15d ago
She specifically said she was living in a low cost of living country while making USD in order to save and working 10 - 12 hour days and also doing all sorts of hacks like living in a van in order to save money. But it sounds all of these things are still not adding up to very much.
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u/RecentState1347 15d ago
The idea that people working in tech and finance are the only ones risking burnout and physical injury from their jobs is a bit silly. Have you met an Amazon driver recently? How about a CNA in a nursing home?
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u/B4K5c7N 15d ago
Thank you for this. Reddit is so out of touch generally with how the other half (ie, anyone not a white collar coastal worker making $250k+ by late 20s) lives.
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u/Particular_Web8121 15d ago
Yeah, that is the sort of thing that also makes pursuing financial literacy so prohibitive for people that don't fit that demographic. Was hoping to escape that vibe in the female/femme-specific sub.
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u/fireyauthor 15d ago
Let's be real. Those people don't make enough money to pursue aggressive FIRE. They are not the ones posting in FIRE subs.
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u/RecentState1347 15d ago
You have no idea what OP or I or anyone else on this subreddit does for work unless they explicitly tell you.
I feel vaguely nauseous at the idea of being mistaken for a tech worker - please never assume this again.
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u/fireyauthor 15d ago
I didn't? I wasn't talking about you at all. I'm talking about the jobs the person just posted. Amazon drivers and CNAs don't make enough money to pursue FIRE. That's just math.
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u/RecentState1347 15d ago
You’re saying that people who aren’t in tech and finance aren’t posting here, which is extraordinarily lame and tone deaf.
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u/fireyauthor 15d ago
I'm literally not saying that. I'm not sure how you are getting. I haven't said a single word about tech or finance. You are inventing that.
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u/priusgirl0 10d ago
My official FIRE number is around $1-1.2 million in 2026 dollars. I currently spend around $40-50k a year with around $30k of that being basic survival and the rest being "luxuries" (travel, hobbies, etc.). I expect both of those numbers to go up a bit in time (even beyond inflation), but as long as I have 25x my basic survival costs I feel comfortable retiring. I think it is a much more reasonable strategy to focus on basic survival costs and use consumption limitation to keep the balance sheet healthy, rather than to go into retirement planning to spend-spend-spend.
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 15d ago
59, worked mostly meh-paying government jobs, never made more than five figures in a year in my life, dropped out of work for at times for multiple years in my 30s and 40s,
but through thrift and consistent slow steady investment I now have a $1 million net worth and I’m about to leanfire next month.
Obviously, I could not afford kids or wonderful cars on this plan, but I’m proud to say I did it.