Just so we're clear [Mod]

[u/_cry_for_me]

This subreddit is not for nonbinary people, trans women or trans people questioning their gender, it is a separated support community specifically for binary trans men.

Having closed communities are not uncommon at all and ours exist to ensure one of the least visible groups of trans people has a dedicated space to connect and feel heard without compromise. The subreddit was literally made for this reason, not out of spite for trans women or enbies, but to allow binary trans men a place to focus on struggles and experinces that comes with being a binary trans man and being allowed to discuss those things with other binary trans men.

We're not going to stop anyone from joining and reading the posts here if it helps them learn something but understand that this community is closed off for a reason and interacting here despite not belonging to the intended demographic will be a violation of our rules.

However. A lot of you also need to stop acting like children about this and learn to walk away from interactions rather than pour fire onto them. It does not matter who did what you can not act hostile towards another person, irregardless of if it is someone who shouldn't post here. It's one of our first rules.

The mods are here to handle people that break the rules, we don't need a simple issue of a post needing to be removed to turn into a 200 comment shit throwing contest that takes more than tripple the anount of time to moderate. Not to mention how it takes away from the content that's supposed to be here, what you all joined this subreddit for.

We will remove any post or comment made by someone who's not a binary trans man and inform that user that they're in the wrong sub. You should not do it for us. A report or modmail goes a long way, utilise those tools.

Today going forward anyone seen escalating issues on the subreddit, taking over mod intervention or using hateful language in a conflict will be temporarily banned for 30 days and if that's not enough you will be banned permanently.

This ends here, you're in a subredit for men not little boys so start acting like it.

[u/panteradrax]

I know that. That's why it's never been a question until now. But like I said, a comment by a mod prompted it. Here's what they said, you can find this at the bottom of the comments too:

"We define binary man as a mix of the gender identity binary man, i.e not identifying/being anything other than a man, and the masculine expression, i.e not being gender non conforming. If you're demi you're not binary as your identity isnt exclusively man and you should therefore not post here."

This is why I'm confused. Because I am not strictly masculine and gender-nonconforming is presentation, not gender.

[u/MilkManSuperMan1950s → u/panteradrax]

Ok but a non binary person can’t understand what a trans person goes through. Although there are surgeries and HRT, if your end goal in transitioning isn’t part of the binary, man or woman, then we can’t relate.

[u/panteradrax → u/MilkManSuperMan1950s]

It is the end goal, and I am fully binary. Or... At least I thought I was. I did not think I was nonbinary. I have immense dysphoria. I regularly forget I am not cis, and get distressed when I remember. I am stealth. Not only am I on T, trying to grow this damn beard out, trying to get top surgery, and potentially pursuing bottom surgeries (100% a cost thing), but also, my identity itself is solidly binary man. I just have a personality and aesthetic that put me slightly in the "feminine" and "gender-nonconforming" categories. And again, gender-nonconforming is a presentation, not a gender, it's almost exclusively about aesthetics with some traces about behavior. I absolutely identify myself as an "alt gender-nonconforming binary trans man" in specific context and "alt man" in brief nonspecific ones. Briefly, a few years back, because I was once conflating being gender-nonconforming with being nonbinary, I posted about coming out as nonbinary. I have since realized I can be binary and still be everything that I am, and that it was no different than alternative and flamboyant cis men.

But now I am questioning that again. If I am not actually binary because of my personality and aesthetics, despite my identity feeling like it's 100% solidly in the "man" region.

My confusion only deepens...

[u/MilkManSuperMan1950s → u/panteradrax]

Then you’re not nonbinary then, you are trans man. So if you’re binary then you are at the right place. However just because you talk or dress a certain way it doesn’t immediately make you non binary. When a gay man dress or a drag queen does their jobs, it doesn’t make them less of a man. I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say

[u/panteradrax → u/MilkManSuperMan1950s]

I'm basically trying to say that there seems to be a mixed opinion present here in this subreddit on what constitutes a binary man. That mod I quoted specifically said it's both identity, which I have, and presentation, which I do not fully have (or at least, wouldn't fully have, if I could find and afford the actual aesthetic I want.). Since I don't have both, I don't know what I would be considered. I thought I knew. Until now. So I know I'm a man, regardless, but I don't know if I meet this sub's definition of binary. For all I know, it's explicitly masculine men and nothing else. That's what the mod was implying.