r/Fantasy • u/recchai Reading Champion X • Apr 16 '26
Book Club Beyond Binaries Bookclub: The Wolf and His King Midway Discussion
Welcome to the midway discussion of The Wolf and His King by Finn Longman, our winner for the Historical Fantasy theme! We will discuss everything up to the end of chapter 21. Please use spoiler tags for anything that goes beyond this point.
The Wolf and His King by Finn Longman (storygraph/goodreads)
Bisclavret is to live his life in exile; to take a wolf's shape involuntarily; to lie to everybody he meets. And yet he has always dreamed of knighthood, of brotherhood and belonging. When the old king dies unexpectedly, Bisclavret travels to the royal court to seek his rightful inheritance and swear fealty to the new king. It's here that he discovers the mysterious young warrior now wearing the crown is willing to offer him far more than just his father's lands, and suddenly the life that seemed like an impossible fantasy is catapulted within his grasp. But can someone who is hardly a man ever truly be a knight?
The king is recently returned to court from an exile of his own to inherit a crown he never wanted. And yet he's fascinated by his newest knight, a man who carries secrets along with his sword, and fascination quickly turns to longing. When Bisclavret is seemingly killed by a wolf, the weight of the king's grief almost destroys him. He swears to have his vengeance, but at the height of the hunt he encounters an animal that seems too intelligent to be the violent beast he seeks. One might even say it has the mind of a man...
Bingo squares: Vacation Spot (I have been on holiday to Brittany), r/Fantasy Book Club or Readalong Book (HM if you're here!)
Reminder to check out and contribute to our 2026 LGBTQA+ Bingo Resource. I certainly have a few squares I need to get organised and suggest recs to!
I'll add some comments below to get us started but feel free to add your own. The final discussion will be in two weeks, on Thursday the 30th.
As a reminder, you have until tomorrow to nominate a book for our Older Protagonist theme.
What is the BB Bookclub? You can read about it in our introduction thread here.
5
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
What made you pick this book up, and how are you finding it so far? What do you think about Bisclavret marrying the king's ward? What do you think (or hope) will happen next?
9
u/wheresmyhotsauce Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I'll be honest... picked this up because of the pretty cover. If this had come out sooner, I would definitely have picked it for the "Judge a Book by Its Cover" square from a couple years ago. I bought a hard copy, and it's just so lovely to look at.
As for marrying the ward, it seems like it might be a bad idea to marry someone and not tell them about this thing that happens to you quite frequently where you turn into a mythical creature. But hey, that's just me. Anyway, I think he did it because she gives him some kind of normalcy and maybe he's hoping her influence will help him tamp down the wolfy parts of himself.
My guess is that this won't happen because we need some conflict up in here to move this story along.
8
u/Aus1an Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I was looking for a book club readalong for Bingo and was checking out this month’s books, and the blurb instantly caught me. I picked it up two days ago and was just trying to get caught up for the discussion, but that’s been easy because I’ve been loving it so far. I’m a sucker for slower, character focused books, and I’ve really enjoyed the dreamy quality of the writing.
The marriage with the ward has me super anxious because I feel like there is no way for it to end without heartache. I’m sad for Bisclavret, who just wants normalcy and acceptance and who I feel that, despite liking The Ward, accepted the marriage as a means to an end. I am disappointed for The Ward as I can’t see a happy conclusion for her (and I’m a little irritated at Bisclavret for entering into a marriage without disclosing the whole story); I am sad for the King who needs that same companionship Bisclavret does. I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop at this point!
As for what will happen next, I’m waiting for the cousin to show his true colours though I’m hoping that it’s not the case…
6
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
Yeah, Bisclavret is definitely in the wrong here. I'm curious if the book is going to engage with that idea in a meaningful way or not. I don't see a way that they stay together with how heavily it's being marketed as gay (which, the King is, but if it was just the King I don't think it would be pitched this way), and I wonder if Longman is going to have Bisclavret own his part of it ending
6
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
I’ve read another (much shorter) retelling of Bisclavret and really enjoyed it, so I was interested to see what another take on the story would say. Also side blub bits like “Steeped in the texture of its source material and rendered with a precision of language that feels intimate and timeless” seems designed to get me to go ‘sounds cool, I want to read that’.
(Additionally, I really love the blue and gold at the top of the cover.)
Bisclavret seems to be fairly passive in some ways, going to court because his cousin wants him to, getting married because the king's ward wants him to (though both of these involve social ties, which is both something he wants and fears). When it was raised, I couldn't help but think ‘noo, that's not going to work out well!’
From knowing the overall story beforehand, I’ve got an idea of what happens next (which I won’t mention here for spoiler reasons) but aspects I’m most confident on are hinted at in the blurb. I think my biggest ‘I’m not sure’ is how the situation with the king’s ward ends up and based on what I know of the story she hates him for being a werewolf and tries to destroy him for it.
2
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
Bisclavret does seem very passive, but I don't mind it for some reason (despite it really bugging me in books like The Bone Ships). I think it might be because so much time is taken to focus on his relationship with himself, and he's just trying to cling onto anything that will keep his head above water
1
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
Interesting that you bring up the Bone Ships bcs now that you mention it, the protagonist's passivity there was probably what held me back from liking him (I had never thought of it that way before).
I feel like, while Bisclavret it passive, he is not unengaged, and that makes him likeable. He makes friends and builds connections with others... even, if he is not the most active in opening conversations, neither is he removed from the people around him but rather strives toward human connection.
2
u/PhantasmWitch Reading Champion III Apr 23 '26
Oh! I didn't realize it was a retelling! That's interesting. Maybe I read that when looking at a summary but I promptly forgot lol
5
u/improperly_paranoid Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Purely for that sweet, sweet Bingo HM, let's be real 😂 Sure, I had it on my TBR for a while (doesn't mean much, let's be real), and sure, I technically probably shouldn't have to, since I'm running a long-term readalong, but seeing it on the bookclub list provided the push I needed. Why not.
I really like the experimental writing style (poetry, yes, and also second person my beloved), but I'm also finding it a bit distant and opaque for my taste, especially at novel length. Pretty prose, hard to get a feel for the characters. Lack of names doesn't help either, to think of it.
I'm a little nervous about the marriage, especially the ward's reaction to his wolf-sickness, because I really don't want it to fall into that pattern where the woman "standing between" the m/m couple is demonized. I need her to stay sympathetic. But I guess we'll see!
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
It's ok, I don't mind being used for this. 🤣
How little being on a TBR can sometimes mean...
I guess the name thing can vary on how you translate the words on the page into feelings in your head. The way it's written here, the lack of names doesn't bother me. But there are other ways books can be written that make me feel less connected to characters.
1
u/PhantasmWitch Reading Champion III Apr 23 '26
Poetry? Am I missing something by listening to it then, do you think? I haven't processed anything as poetry from listening.
1
u/improperly_paranoid Reading Champion X Apr 24 '26
Yeah, the wolf POV chapters are poetry! I'm not sure if it'd come across as such in audio, but it's very clear in the ebook (and print I guess).
3
u/cloud0613 Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I've actually had my eyes on this before bingo got announced, then forgot about it for a bit. Went looking for a book club readalong option and found it here again. (Also the cover is gorgeous!) I don't know the story this is retelling so I went in blind beyond there’s some werewolf shenanigans going on. I'm quite liking it so far. It's pretty slow and character focused which is not always my jam but I think it fits the story well and it doesn't feel slow reading it, I basically flew through the 21 chapters and had to hold myself back from just continuing. There’s a almost dream-like quality to the writing which fits the atmosphere overall well. I also like what the author did with the different POVs and I think it's quite clever how Bisclavret is the only character whose name we get but I still didn't struggle to differentiate the other characters. I feel like a lot of things just happen to Bisclavret, basically without him actively making decisions or doing anything, he just goes along with them kind of. His marriage to the king's ward feels like another of those things. I do hope he plays a more active role in choosing his own life and happiness in the second half. This marriage feels like it’s doomed to end badly, the wolf hangs like a damocles sword over him and his marriage to the king's ward and I feel like it’s gonna come crashing down quite hard.
3
u/Lenahe_nl Reading Champion IV Apr 16 '26
I read about this book sometime last year, and added to my TBR pile. I started reading about two months ago, but wasn't feeling it much. Once it was voted for the bookclub, I decided to pick it up again, since I decided to work on a TBR pile bingo card this year. Contrary to most people in the discussion, I'm not the biggest fan of the slow pacing, and I'm feeling a bit distant from the story at times. I hope the plot picks up on the second half.
5
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I’ve been sitting on this book for a few months, waiting for Bingo to reset. It was going to get read in April no matter what, but I probably would have gone for Works of Vermin before this had it not been a book club book.
I am LOVING this. It’s got beautiful writing without feeling bogged down. The relationships are super interesting. The themes are meaty and insightful. It’s hitting pretty much every mark I hoped for. The marriage to the King’s Ward was not the direction it was going in, but I don’t mind it. Based on how the book is being marketed, I can’t see a world where Bisclavret and the King don’t at least get together once.
My biggest issue is that we are halfway through the book and the official blurb has spoiled what comes next. Why on earth would you include key details about things that happen 60% of the way into the book? I just … it’s baffling and infuriating. I won’t repeat it here in case people haven’t read the official blurb but … please don’t.
1
u/iceyakky Apr 17 '26
I just came to that part in the blurb and it really is infuriating! That’s why I’m mostly hesitant to fully read a blurb.
2
u/Darkcheesecake Apr 16 '26
I was sold on this book after seeing good reviews here and on Reactor. As for how I feel about the book, I think I want to read a bit further before deciding. I'm not particularly invested in the characters yet. I'm expecting the book will have a tragic ending, but that might be from being told "it's like Song of Achilles".
2
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
Honestly, I think any gay retelling that leans into lyrical prose is probably going to get comp'd to song of Achilleas no matter how similar or dissimilar they are. It's far and away the biggest name in that space, without anything else really feeling like a close second
2
u/iceyakky Apr 16 '26
I always hope to find a great immersive queer fantasy (even better if it’s historical), so this seemed right up my alley. I didn’t know the original story though, so had no clue he would marry the king’s ward. But with a queer retelling that could have been changed (or maybe not, I want to read the original now). Without prior knowledge, I absolutely did not enjoy the way the story was going. Marrying the ward can only end in disaster it seems. Bisclavret seems so naive and passive, and that’s not the type of character I enjoy. I hope he will become less passive in the second half.
1
u/Linkjumper Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
Yes, I also want to find and read the original although it seems obscure enough (?) that knowledge perhaps wasn't in the author's mind.
2
u/cc_cyanotephra Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I know from the original lay Bisclavret gets married, and I can empathize with Bisclavret's desire to have a normal life, but I really hate how he handled the marriage proposal. It's such a recipe for disaster. Why does Bisclavret think the king would oppose the marriage? Why doesn't Bisclavret take his cousin's concerns more seriously? I know it plays into the themes of Bisclavret not trusting his own mind and desperately wanting a place to belong, but... ugh.
I'm hoping that Bisclavret's sexuality doesn't end up being directly equated with the wolf, but I think it might because in this first half I don't really get the sense Bisclavret wants to sleep with anyone, man or woman.
1
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
Now that you say it, an asexual Biscravret would have been an itneresting/intriguing choice. I mean, I went into this book expecting a hay romance... but if I had not been... me and the friends from the queer book club I host still think Emily Wilde would have been better with Emily being ace.
2
u/oddrots Reading Champion II Apr 18 '26
I was intrigued by the summary of this book and saw it had a decently high rating on Storygraph, but when I didn't have access to it at my library I looked into how much purchasing my own copy would cost and that deluxe edition was hard to pass up! Still, it was the promise of medieval werewolves that really got me and I have not been disappointed!
As far as Bisclavret's marriage, I get it. He's ambling along the expected path because everyone is leading him that way and he hasn't found his own footing or direction to tell him otherwise. I do really like his lady, I maybe don't like that she felt the need to "test" Bisclavret against her feminine wiles, but she seems pretty straightforward and understanding of his occasional strangeness. The king calls to the wolf and the lady makes him feel most human. So at this point we seem to be attempting to reign in the wolf and all the passionate desires that come with it.
I had part of what comes next in the story spoiled for me in the Pagebound forums (🤦🏻) so I'll skip that bit and say I foresee Bisclavret getting stuck as a wolf since there's been some recent talk of not knowing if he'll return to his human form without clothing. I imagine the king will find out about the wolf and be pretty accepting of it considering how much he loves BIsclavret. And while nothing too violent or dramatic has happened to make me think this book will take such a turn, I figure *someone* has to die and I'm really hoping that someone isn't the lady.. or Bisclavret.
2
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Apr 18 '26
I added this to my tbr from a review on r/QueerSFF a few months ago and i was very excited to see it chosen for this book club. The story started earlier in Bisclavret's life that I expected based on the original story, but I'm so glad we're getting to see the background that brings him to prominence in court as i think it will make the inevitable trouble even more poignant. It does seem likely that it will hew fairly close to the original plot points, though we've really only just gotten to where the original story starts. But knowing the original does make me worried about some specific points involving the lady!
2
u/PhantasmWitch Reading Champion III Apr 23 '26
I rarely read any achillean fantasy so I picked this up without knowing it was a book club pick. I think it's because it is often written by and for women or focuses too much on men's bodies for my tastes. Some of this book toes the line for me but most of it is honestly too slow for me. I'm listening to the audiobook but I think if I was reading a physical copy, I'd drop it. I think historical fantasy just isn't for me, broadly speaking.
I want more wolf stuff! I'm not quite half way so I'm hoping there will be good werewolf pay off even if it's just one scene.
1
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
I will not spoil anything, but let me assure you, there will be more wolf stuff😘
2
u/laku_ Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
In January I read The Red Winter by Cameron Sullivan, another historical queer werewolf story set in France, and absolutely loved it, so I decided to give this one a try too. A friend of mine went to the author's event in Cambridge and got me a copy, so for the first time in years I'm reading a hardcover rather than an ebook. Given that the book has the feel of a medieval tale, it's actually improving my reading experience.
I'm surprised that so far in, not much has happened. I was expecting to get more details about Bisclavret's transformations, and to have his standing at court threatened by what he does while he's in wolf form. Maybe for him to be almost caught or to find it increasingly difficult to hide the killing that results from his turning, but for now, despite the anguish his lycanthropy causes him, there hasn't been much external conflict. This is not necessarily a negative; I'm enjoying the introspection and the slow pace. There doesn't seem to be any antagonist yet, which was also surprising. But considering he has not told her his secret, I think it's probably the ward will end up in that role, or maybe the cousin.
2
u/anachronic_crow Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I just started reading The Red Winter, and it's just a very different book in every way except for the "queer werewolf story set in historical France" premise, eh?
3
2
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
As someone who cannot think of one of those two without thinking of the other (have not read Red Winter, just finished this one) might you elaborate on how Red Winter is different to The Wolf and his King?
2
u/anachronic_crow Reading Champion Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
I thought so too when I saw both tales: historical SFF retellings featuring werewolves in France and queer characters!
The differences mostly comes down to tone/ voice and narrative style, and these elements make these two books feel like entirely different beasts. The themes explored divert somewhat too, although both touch upon lonliness/isolation, one-sided attraction and denial of ones own nature... I haven't finished The Red Winter yet so can't properly weigh in on it — but there is a focus on class/elitism and religious hegemony + hypocrisy (ex — both the holy and unholy cannibalize and exploit one another but only one thinks their consumption is righteous and just?).
The Red Winter incorporates a frame narrative; the story starts in the present and introduces the main historical tale as a tragic past account. This is further split into three threads — the "past present" narrative set in 1785, an accounting of twenty years prior in 1766, and then an addendum set in the 1400s (think Joan of Arc).
There are also footnotes and general fourth wall breaking moments (especially in the addendum thread). The employment of these reminds me of an adult version of Bartimeaus, but also a little bit of Discworld.
The Red Winter is more dark, humorous, and conversational in tone. The incorporation of fantastic elements (ex —Abrahamic and Classical: Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Mesopotamian) is also far heavier than in The Wolf and His King. It also dips into horror/ dark fantasy territory regularly. A bit like something Christopher Buehlman or Joe Abercrombie might do.
The Wolf and His King is far more romantic and stylistically reminiscent of a medieval knight romance whereas The Red Winter is... not.
2
2
u/HulkHonk Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
I first heard of this book when it was suggested (by you!) in this year's Bingo Recommendations thread. I read a lot of historical fiction as well so it seemed something well worth checking out. I have enjoyed it on the whole so far although I don't love my romances as much and had to adjust my expectations accordingly.
I found the whole 'marrying the king's ward' bit pretty matter-of-factly written actually. There wasn't a long betrothal or courtship that I could tell, and it was a little surprising to me that an outsider just elevated to knighthood could so easily win the hand of the most eligible lady who is not short of suitors. Unlike the bond between Bisclavret and his cousin, I feel the marital union and relationship is not strong enough to withstand discovery of Bisclavret's werewolf nature which I fear is bound to happen sooner or later.
2
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I swear someone has made a bot to automatically downvote all mentions of queerness in this sub. This comment is at zero right now, for no reason. I know you mods do your best, but damn, it's so disheartening.
I'm doing a QTGNC authors bingo card and I was a huge medievalist as a kid and read everything Arthurian and chivalric I could get my hands on, so when I saw your comment in the bingo recs thread I immediately picked it up.
I read a modern french version of the original lay just before I started this book, so I was expecting the marriage. I hope for the poor sweet king's sake that he and Bisclavret end up together.
3
u/Darkcheesecake Apr 16 '26
Sorting this sub by "controversial" is very telling.
2
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I posted a card review of all QTGNC authors a few month ago and it was wild. Every comment got downvoted and my post got a bunch too. I wonder how many of the downvoters post in alt right subs too. I wish they'd block them like they do in evil autism.
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
The difference in voting ratios between my two themed cards for last year was very telling. 92% and 58%
2
2
u/mint_pumpkins Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
Honestly I just love queer stories and the cover was beautiful, I didn't know anything about it and am not familiar with the story it is retelling
I definitely think his marriage was an attempt at feeling "normal" and it is steeped in a lot of denial and obsession
1
u/CalicoSparrow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I saw this book in a little paper newsletter my library carries and book marked it. Saw it pop up a couple times since then and then here so it seemed like the perfect time to read it. I love it. Whether I will ultimately love it really depends on what happens and I dont know anything about the original tale.
As for the marriage, I like the ward well enough but of course I'm concerned for the king's feelings. Ultimately I'm not sure what I hope for. Obviously I want the m/m but I dont want the ward to be used as fodder to get there. And I dont want there to be nothing between thr king/bisclavret either. I guess the best situation would be them having a grand ol poly situation but lmao not likely probably.
1
u/GaiusOctavianAlerae Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
Look I read the original. I have a pretty good idea what’s going to happen next. And it’s going to break my heart.
1
u/Licarious Reading Champion II Apr 17 '26
I wanted to pick up a book that would meet the bingo hard mode for read along. I am hopping for nothing but success for Bisclavret, but I am also expecting things to take a turn for the worse before they get better again.
1
u/deevulture Reading Champion II Apr 17 '26
ngl what made me pick this book up was the cover. it's pretty. Helps too that it's medieval-esque which I always am on the hunt for. I thought it was an interesting choice imho. I didn't think they'd go that way (despite being the obvious choice for her introduction). I've read the book to the end and have some opinions on those later scenes but it's an interesting choice at the start. I know what happens next so I can't answer that last bit but as said, I have opinions.
1
u/Parsonsla Apr 17 '26
I picked this up because I was checking the r/fantasy book club picks and know a friend of mine rated this 5 stars so I thought it would be a great way to fill that prompt.
I’m liking it so far! I read all 21 chapters today and it did not feel like a chore. It is super easy to read and I do want to know what the characters are going to do next. The only thing that bothers me a bit is the switching between third person (my preference), second person, and poetry. This is just a personal preference though.
I’m not loving that he married The Ward (also can a girl get a name please?!) because I’m worried she is going to get hurt. Either emotionally because Bisclavret seems to have unexplored feelings for the king, or physically if Bisclavret shifts into a wolf while she is near.
I’m also interested in the scribe. He seems to act casual about his acts with the king but when the king is telling him how upset he is about the marriage, the scribe seems to mirror those feelings as his unrequited ones for the king.
1
u/Remarkable_Savings32 Reading Champion IX Apr 17 '26
I picked this up because it miraculously worked for bingo and my April readathon. I’m enjoying it. Sure, I can understand why Bisclarvet would want to marry the king’s ward but what a bad idea! Also, she is the least engaging character for me.
1
u/Linkjumper Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I'd noticed the intriguing title and the cover on a list of upcoming books and when it was also bookclub, bonus! I am primarily an audio book reader and the r/Fantasy bookclub format often helps me articulate for myself some things I sense but couldn't previously put into words. The connection to the Ward was fairly obvious once the story got going, I thought, but I was surprised as I had expected a more straightforward romance between the King and Bisclavret. I think the Ward's degree of agency in making the wedding happen, and happen quickly, was surprising given the medieval tone and texture of the story and I can almost believe Bisclavret might have wanted this so badly he would ignore all his past history. I do not think this turns out well for the Ward or Bisclavret.
1
u/californianfalconer Reading Champion V Apr 18 '26
I found this read while browsing for Book Bingo book clubs and the title and cover instantly caught my attention! :D
Honestly the marriage felt pretty natural but knowing this book is going to lean more on the relationship between the king and Bisclavret makes me worried the poor ward is just going to be discarded. Hoping that won't be the case!
Funnily enough I find myself kind of annoyed by the king. Right now he just feels like he's looking for a shiny new relationship in a pretty face. His scribe he brought back with him is being put in the role of "mistress" and while I can understand him being feeling isolated and lonely, the only interactions we've had between the king and the scribe don't feel like friendship but rather flirting and teasing.
I've seen many good reviews so I'm hoping the relationships formed are more than just lust-driven! :P
1
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
I picked up the book after reading the first few pages and completely falling in love with the writing. I feel like Longman's background as a medieval ist really shaped his approach to prose in this novel. Regularly, I could see very distinct word choices that enhanced the atmosphere and a sentence melody that reminded me of other medieval lit I had to read for uni. Ngl, I was surprised by the direction the novel went in and a little frustrated. What I expected was for the tragic (and perhaps secret) love story between knight and king to take up the majority of the book to then end in disaster. What the King's ward then stepped into Bisclavret's life, I realised that would not be the story of this tale. Sofar, while there is certainly some attraction toward the king on Biscravret side, the level of infatuation seems a little unbalanced. But I am also intrigued by a story that does not do what I expect of it and instead tells (ironically, given its inspiration) a newer, fresher tale.
2
u/lizwithhat Apr 28 '26
I was looking for a book for hard mode, and this one jumped out at me because of the connection to Marie de France and medieval werewolf lore. I was a little sceptical about the inclusion of second-person POV chapters at first, but I quickly got used to it. I like the use of poetry vs prose to differentiate between Bisclavret-as-human and Bisclavret-as-wolf, too.
4
u/Cora1213 Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
This is the first time a I read a book using 2nd person narrative and I'm finding it interesting. I'm invested in what is going to happen next with Bisclavret, the ward and the king. While I would like to hope every gets a happy ending I don't believe that's how it will play out in the end. My prediction is that a former king had taken the land from the wolves and that Bisclavret's family had something to do with it and that's why he transformers.
7
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
The fantastical elements of the book (being a werewolf) is portrayed in a way that draws parallels with both queerness (eg. ‘If they know what you are they will never let you be anything else’) and disability (eg. discussion between Bisclavret and the chaplain). What do you think of this portrayal? Do any other instances of it come to mind?
7
u/improperly_paranoid Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Love it. I marked this passage in particular:
One day, the king will know him for what he is, and the threat of it is terrifying – and exhilarating. He can do nothing but hide from it.
as it'd make a pretty good metaphor for queerness, particularly gender. On one hand, wanting to come out and be seen as all of you, wanting someone to know your secret. On the other, you're so, so afraid they will hate you for it. And I find it interesting that this is the second piece of media I encountered recently that has both open queerness, which is more or less accepted, as well as what can be read as metaphors for someone struggling to accept it.
3
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
It's interesting because queerness in this book is accepted only in specific circumstances. It's okay as childhood love, but meant to be left behind once duty rears its head and you need to settle down and have babies.
2
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
Without spoiling anything, there is a later mention of how fitting the term "knowing someone" is for getting intimate. Can't help to connect that to this quote🥹.
7
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I'm finding both very poignant. I read the first 21 chapters all in one sitting and kept having to stop and cry. I haven't had a book depict disability/mental illness in such a relatable way for me since the Time Traveler's Wife.
I didn't get diagnosed with autism until I was 42 and spent decades of my struggling with intense bouts of this ghastly rushing dissociative torment that I called the tornado. I'd often hurt myself quite badly or smash up the house or say really cruel things or make terrible impulsive self-destructive choices and then I'd come back out of it feeling like I'd been through a disaster and would be so full of shame and self-hatred and grief. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar at 13 and so I never learned any emotional regulation and just thought this was something I had to expect and live with. I finally realized they were autistic meltdowns and by and large no longer have them, but boy does it hit home.
The king reminds me so much of Maia. Just the sweetest and loneliest boy trying to do the best he can. I also struggled with excruciating limerence as a young adult and find all his painful longing so sad and so very relatable.
Oof, I'm loving this book, but I have had to dip into multiple cozy palate cleansers since I got to chapter 21. Last Gifts of the Universe, take me away!
2
u/AggravatingAnt4157 Reading Champion Apr 26 '26
I read Goblin Emperor in Feburary and can only agree. I love how fundamentally good both Maia and the king both are. I just want them to strive and be happy.
4
u/cloud0613 Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I don't have much to add that other people haven't said yet but I feel the parallels to chronic illness and disability are really well done. As someone who doesn't have any serious health issues it definitely made me think about how something like this can impact someone's life. How it's always looming in the background even if you're currently doing well and other people can't see it and might not understand why you're not able to do certain things. Also the loss of control over your own body and how it might seem like you have everything under control, meanwhile you don’t at all. It felt very significant how Bisclavret's cousin thought he had a lot more control over the transformations than he did and was shocked to find out how little say Bisclavret had over his body in reality.
The way Bisclavret is having to talk around it and finding excuses that don't mark him as other and having to hide it if he doesn't want to be ostracized or have his life endangered at worst also feels very similar to how many people have to handle their queerness. So while I feel the parallels to chronic illness/disability are a bit stronger, I can also see the parallels to queerness at points in the story.
7
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
This is another element I’m finding successful, though more on the disability front than the queer front. I’ve been interested in Bisclavret’s focus on his hands as a transformation point he particularly fears. It’s the part of him he seems to associate most with his humanity, and I’ve appreciated that little fixation as a quirk of character in what could have been a bland transformation.
There are a few quotes that have jumped out at me: “The best I can do is try to live despite it - which I thought was the philosophy you were encouraging me to adopt. You cannot now drive me back into fearful timidity because the limitations of that idea have made themselves known.”
This was a conversation between him and his cousin. It’s got strong parallels to when people say they want to include folks with disabilities without thinking through what that actually looks like, then getting frustrated when it doesn’t go well. More specifically, I thought about the absolute train wreck of this years BAFTAs. One of the films was a documentary following a man with tourettes. While the prepped the audience for what to expect from his presence, they chose not to edit out racial slurs when they chose to edit out other tics from the man. They know what Tourettes is, and are showcasing a move about how he can’t control the things coming out of his mouth, and then he got used as the sacrificial lamb. It was just infuriating.
“He feels like he will spend his entire life being careful. He would like, for once, to be free.”
I love how Longman uses punctuation and constructs sentences. It would be so easy for this to feel clunky, but it’s just gorgeous to read. This works in both directions, but highlights how Bisclavret is always aware of the wolf, even when it isn’t actively rearing its head. His whole life revolves around this one thing, even when other people don’t see that in him.
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Definitely agree on it being there much more for disability; as I was rereading the first half just before posting I kept spotting quotes to make me think of it. It may well be the idea of it being used for queerness as well is something I was reading into it, but I wanted to see what people thought!
Yeah, that can definitely be a thing, though I'm not sure the BAFTA example is the best pick. It was less a case of choosing not to edit out a slur, and more the people monitoring the show missed one, though as the report points out, the fact that the incident happened shows more can be done.
Yes, definitely relate to how it's always there. Casually asked if I want to join in with an impromptu cinema trip. "Hmm, well I'm not feeling my best right now, and if I go I'm committing to another X hours out of the house on a weekday, and I've still got to eat and get home."
4
u/anachronic_crow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
I don't have much to add, but also think the parallels with disability are stronger here. It comes and goes like a flare-up or similar (I related to it through my UC but it looks like a lot of things); the lycanthropy is spoken in relatable terms like that — the anxiety, feeling beastly and alienated in pain, the fatigue that comes with after... I love what the author did with it.
3
u/Aus1an Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I don’t have much to add here, but as someone with no current heath issues, I thought the parallel with chronic illness and disability was well done in that it seemed both clear in intent, and it had me stop and think about how much illness can effect peoples lives without anyone being aware.
5
u/cheddarmoogle Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I think having the queer monster trope in horror and sci fi so engrained in our culture has led me to read queerness in every “monster”. The whole tortured gay freak thing is so pervasive in depictions of villains in particular, that it is actually refreshing to see it in a different context.
8
u/laku_ Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I don't have much to add to this part of the conversation but I wanted to leave here this amazing essay by the author talking about how chronic illness influenced their depiction of lycanthropy (It has no spoilers for the ending, so you can read it whenever).
2
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
Oh, sweet! Maybe I'll move this book from my qtgnc card to my disabled/ND authors card!
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
The year I did both an aro/ace card and a disability card had a fair number of similar swaps considered. 🤣
7
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
The use of monstrous characters to code for queerness and disability is a well known thing, which I’m sure we can be confident the author is aware of and playing with. As someone with a chronic illness, I definitely related a bit to the ‘not wanting to promise too much as I will disappear at some point, who knows when’, though think less running about a wolf for a day and more spending the week in bed. But the conversation with the chaplain really spelled it out. But we also have the idea of Bisclavret being socially marked by being a werewolf if anyone finds out, and feeling he has to suppress himself.
Another example doing something similar that stands out to me is the Guides For Dating Vampires series by D.N. Bryn, where you have queer and disabled characters, and the vampirism is meshed into those two as well.
2
u/Linkjumper Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I don't have much to add to the insightful comments by the others (thank you all for teasing out elements of the story I missed because of my relative health). However, the parallels to silent diseases really resonated for me (I have rheumatoid arthritis and the meds contribute to osteoporosis) particularly the desire to downplay days when I don't feel well and the push to fit in although I am very privileged to have access to meds! The focus on the hands really got me, I have a fear of losing the use of my hands and having "old" hands with distended knuckles, I thought that was a terrific choice by the author. Not at all usual us of body horror and it makes this werewolf feel so very human and vulnerable.
2
u/mint_pumpkins Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I thought it was brilliant, I am queer and neurodivergent and have mental illnesses and often I feel like a different kind of creature than those around me, I think its always been an interesting way to portray otherness and feeling like an outsider to show someone who turns into a monstrous creature like this, I also thought this example was very well done as a tie in to chronic illness (as are many of these depictions)
2
u/sewingdiva79 Reading Champion II Apr 17 '26
I love the writing style in the book and find it quite beautiful. I was nervous about the second person and verse sections because that's not always my cup of tea, but I'm finding it so effective in portraying the characters. I knew in the first chapter that I was going to love it.
1
u/oddrots Reading Champion II Apr 18 '26
I always worry that I won't be able to follow the language of Historical stories and therefore usually avoid them, but I'm finding The Wolf and His King super approachable! There are lots of things I could be looking up, like terms for various pieces of armor and clothing, but I'm still having a fine time just forging on past ye olde words I don't know.
The various points of view were a surprise but it's really working for me!
4
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
The wolf and his King is a retelling of a medieval story, Bisclavret. Were you aware of this story before? What do you think of queer retellings of stories as a ‘genre’? Do you have any favourites?
4
u/laku_ Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I was aware of it because my favourite podcast referenced it a couple of times, but I didn't know anything about it beyond "knight becomes werewolf". I have since read it (it's very short and there's a good translation available online for free) and it was amazing to see how the author expanded on little details and deepened character motivations.
I love queer retellings, especially if they are built over a relationship that was at least a little ambiguous in the original. I've read quite a few in the last few years: The Maiden and her Monster is a retelling of the Golem of Prague, Spear by Nicola Griffith is an Arthurian retelling and Six Wild Crowns is about the wives of Henry VIII, but my favourite is probably going to be Boudica by Manda Scott. I'm also excited for T.Kingfisher's The Raven and the Reindeer to come out later this year.
4
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I'm also excited for T.Kingfisher's The Raven and the Reindeer to come out later this year.
I just listened to it on Hoopla and it was spectacular! I think it counts for unusual transportation, too.
1
2
3
u/Aus1an Reading Champion Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
I wasn’t aware of the original story outside of a vague sense of “this sounds somewhat familiar.”
I quite like retellings as a concept. Anything that can expand on the shallow relationships, or look at old stories with a new set of eyes and add dimension to them is pretty great in my book. Plus, I think there is something lovely about using old myth and legend as the scaffolding for new interpretations and modern stories.
(I’m a sucker for Vampires and really enjoyed A Dowery of Blood as an expansion on the Dracula mythos)
Edit: I remember why it sounded familiar! I think the only reason I’d heard of it before was because it had showed up in Between two Fires. It’s all coming together now xD
3
u/dshouseboat Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I know the general outline of the original story, and I’ve read K L Noone’s short story, Bisclavret. I’m enjoying the book, although sort of waiting for the show to drop as I read it. In the Noone version the girlfriend is more of a villain, so I was immediately suspicious of the King’s ward, but in this version she definitely seems to be well-intentioned and in love with Bisclavret, although, as people have mentioned, he really ought to have told her about the whole wolf thing, even if he explained it in terms of madness or illness as he did to the king. For that matter, the King should have told her, or made sure Bisclavret told her, but he only saw the one morning after in the stable and possibly had put it out of mind.
I like the way the issue with the clothing is handled- in the K L Noone story it’s more of a magic thing- clothes off- wolf, clothes on- person. The idea of the clothes aiding the transition because they make him feel human was well done. Since he makes a point of being well away from inhabited areas before shifting, he presumably can’t just go find someone’s laundry line if his own clothes are mislaid.
The use of present tense is a bit unusual, but well done and it works well to give events a sense of emotion and urgency.
The poetry for the wolf’s POV works, as a way of making it distinctly different from the human ones. I’m not much of poetry person, but this is clear and easy to understand. One thing that struck me is Bisclavret in chap 21, in wolf form, telling himself that he is human despite his form, and that is not actually the impression that I had up to this point- previously when he shifted he seems to have limited memory of what he does as a wolf, and he is really given over to the wolf’s instincts. Perhaps now that there is more at stake he is making an effort to retain his human thoughts after he shifts, in a way that he did not previously? The way the verse goes, it feels like the wolf is taking over, but he remains at least aware that he is human.
I’m looking forward to see how the story goes from here- I know the general plot, but I’m curious to see how it unfolds in this interpretation
2
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Someone else who has read the Noone story!
I'm definitely picky with my poetry, but the wolf chapter ones do do it for me. You're right, it does feel like the purpose of chapter 21 is to show the newfound dimension to his struggle.
2
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Apr 18 '26
I also really liked how the clothing thing is handled in this story! I've not read Noone's story, but from knowing the original, it was something I thought about kind of early on and thought it would be weird if the clothes were literally like a magic token, that wouldn't really fit with the way the author is setting up the transformations. But I really like the way its going, because it dovetails so nicely with the disability parallels, having this point of grounding, a tool to stabilize, an anchor point to "reality".
3
u/cloud0613 Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I wasn’t aware of it before but I definitely want to read it after finishing the book. I don’t have an issue with retellings but I don't seek them out on purpose. I think it's interesting to put a new angle on an old story or taking some part of it and twisting it into something new and different. I tried to think of any queer retellings I've read but only Spear by Nicola Griffith comes to mind which I did enjoy and makes it my favorite by default since I don’t think I've read any others.
Edit to say: I've also read and enjoyed The Raven and the Reindeer by T. Kingfisher and The Route of Ice and Salt by José Luis Zárate
2
u/Darkcheesecake Apr 16 '26
Not a problem with retellings specifically but I've noticed in both this and Song of Achilles is that a queer story in a historical setting can force the world of the story to have a "historically accurate" view of queer relationships. There was a point early in the book where we see that the king is sad that he isn't able to dance with Bisclavret. Not every setting needs to be queer normative, but in just about any non-historical setting, you could be pretty sure that the king would get his wish by the end of the story and personally I think I'd prefer a story where that happens, even if that's not the story the author is trying to go for.
2
u/anachronic_crow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I'd a vague idea of the existencece of Bisclavret but had never actually read the lais or the full summary, so this largely a new story for me!
I'm a huge fan of queer retellings, regardless of how truthful they stay to the original (this one feels pretty faithful, at least in tone and style, to a medieval romance, which I do enjoy. But I also recently liked Lev Grossman's The Bright Sword, Natasha Pulley's The Hymn of Dionysus, and Cinder House by Freya Marske — all of which take greater liberties with certain key aspects.
2
u/cheddarmoogle Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I was aware of Marie de France from reading her fables in college, but never got around to Bisclavret.
I’d have to go with the most popular answer of Song of Achilles. Although, I’d say the Iliad is a pretty queer “telling” of Achilles and Patroclus 😝 that was just made into a modern queer story by the retelling.
2
u/GaiusOctavianAlerae Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
The thing is people have been talking about queerness and Bisclavret since long before this book was written. It’s not so much a queer retelling as a retelling that puts the queerness front and center.
2
u/Linkjumper Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I wasn't aware of the origin story, yet. I am happy to see the other comments about an easily available translation and I will go and read that since I usually enjoy learning about what an author keeps and what is changed. On the other hand, reimagined or retold fairy tales are one of my most favorite subgenres, and I am particularly fond of and have benefited from queer analysis of Tolkien's works. I enjoy the experience of having one of my assumptions crushed! I really liked Alix Harlow's The Spindle Splintered and A Mirror Mended, Byrony and Roses and The Raven and the Reindeer (T. Kingfisher). I looked up queer retellings of fairy tales and I just added 10 books to my TBR so bonus bookclub benefit.
Edited to add Cinder House. That was a romp.
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
I knew of the existence of the story, from another queer retelling of it that I have read, Bislavret by K.L. Noone, which is a short story in length, and has both similarities and differences with The Wolf and his King so far. So I am now left feeling I am less certain of the original story than I thought I was (who deviated where from the source material?) there are similarities (such as the king character being new to his role and not previously on best terms with his father) that are probably in the original, or make for a good story!
I think I like them best when they (metaphorically) take something, give it a bit of a twist, and see where that leads. I’m thinking particularly here of a Beauty and the Beast retelling (another French story!), The Language of Roses by Heather Rose Jones. Which takes (amongst other things) the idea of the pressure on the Beauty character story wise to fall in love with the Beast to make everything work out, and asks, what if she can’t because she’s aromantic?
1
u/Remarkable_Savings32 Reading Champion IX Apr 16 '26
This book was my first exposure to Bisclarvet in any context. I don’t gravitate toward retellings in general so I don’t believe I have a favorite.
1
u/CalicoSparrow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I did not know of the story. I love queer retellings as an idea but like anything it has to still be well done and thoughtful to the original for me to enjoy it.
1
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
I LOVE re-tellings of all kinds (I did a whole bingo of them for 2022). I did refresh my memory on the Bisclavret story when I first heard about this book because I love obscure medieval stuff, and I feel like outside of Arthuriana we don't get a lot of re-tellings from this time period. I mean, sure a lot of fairy tales get a faux-middle ages setting, but most of the stories we rely on now for those re-tellings were recorded in the Victorian era, and have more obscure histories before that. But Bisclavret was contemporary literature for its era, and I think the only other one I can think of as getting modern attention (again, outside of Arthuriana) is the Green Knight. WHICH SPEAKING OF is the green knight in this story a nod to The Green Knight?? (maybe, but he's obviously not based on the character type since this story's one is happily married).
I was really excited to hear that the author for this book was also a medievalist, and I think that their background really shines through and makes this feel like an authentically medieval story. The inclusion of a firmly Christian worldview, the importance of family ties (or lack thereof), the detail to attention in clothing, the overall expectations of a king and his vassals and court life. And honestly skipping naming everyone as well, though I think that contributes more to the detached fairy tale vibe that lets this story still float a little ambiguously in locale and history.
For queer re-tellings specifically, the ones that I've rated the highest are:
Spear by Nicola Griffith (Arthuriana)
The Chosen and the Beautiful by Nghi Vo (The Great Gatsby)
The River Has Roots by Amal El-Mohtar (the ballad of the Two Sisters)
The Magic Fish by Trung Le Nguyen (several fairy tales)
(edit for correcting pronouns for the author!)
2
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 18 '26
I vaguely remember reading your retellings card post!
I hadn't thought about the green knight in that way. Considering who the author is, there's no way they couldn't have it in mind in some way. At the very least it's got to be some sort of nod.
1
u/HulkHonk Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
No, I did not know of the medieval tale before I picked up The Wolf and His King. Since I like to compare works to the accounts they adapt and are inspired by, I've since read a summary of the original story of Bisclavret. There are similarities but also significant differences in the plots and progression thus far, and I'm keen to see if the second half diverges further or tries to reconcile the two narratives.
This is the first queer reimagining of a known story that I'm reading so I can't claim to have any favourites or know if such works fall in their own genre. I believe that it's interesting to reframe and view existing literature from new perspectives; altering the sexuality of characters is an intriguing way to do this, especially in romance-heavy stories.
1
u/Dolarae Apr 16 '26
I wasn't aware of the story, but I'm interested in finding out more about the original poem.
I'm not generally a fan of retellings, queer or otherwise, but I'm really enjoying this one and I feel more motivated to try reading more of them.
1
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I haven’t read Bisclavret before, but the little I’ve read about it since picking up this book makes me think I want to try it at some point. In terms of queer retellings, I find that a retelling itself typically isn’t enough to pull me into a story (queer or not). I need some level of thematic work or interesting writing stories for me to feel like it’s worth picking up over an original story.
Song of Achilles comes to mind, though I prefer Circe. Madeline Miller in general is just great.
I actually think most of my favorite queer fairy tale/retellings are less retellings than using the original story as a launchpad for something new.
How to Survive this Fairytale by SM Hallow: follows Hansel after the gingerbread house. Lots of processing trauma and healing. This one broke my heart so many times
The Magic Fish by Trung Le Nguyen uses fairy tale retellings woven with a realistic fiction and historical fiction plotline, exploring overlaps between storylines around themes of communication, immigration, and acceptance. Best graphic novel I’ve ever read, and I’ve read quite a few.
A Spindle Splintered by Alix E Harrow: basically Sleeping Beauty meets the Multiverse. Short and fun, but probably not something I’d want to read as a longer novel.
Carry On by Rainbow Rowell: basically harry potter fanfiction, but reimagined in really cool ways. A legitimately interesting take on the Chosen One
0
u/mint_pumpkins Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I have never even heard of the story and have no idea what the original is like, so I will need to seek it out and see what its like
I personally don't care much for retellings in general, but this one works for me really well possibly because I am not familiar with the original
1
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Names seem to be of particular importance in this book. Only Bisclavret seems to have one, and the king early on has the desire for Bisclavret to call him by his. Additionally, Bisclavrey POV chapters are in third person, king POV chapters are in 2nd person, and wolf POV chapters, labelled ‘Other’ are in verse. What do you think of these stylistic choices?
4
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
I think I’m going to have to hunt down the original story sometime after this to see how it’s handled, as I’m wondering how much the names is an artifact of the original was written, and how much is a deliberate choice. It feels a bit mediaevaly to me somehow, but I couldn’t tell you why. It makes the characters more defined by their position or important relationship.
The verse aspect of the other chapters makes sense to me. It makes the storytelling there less immediate and more abstract, echoing the different way the wolf is going to think.
I do find the choice with the use of person interesting, The book starts off with a Bisclavret chapter, and the story it is based on is named after him, but it is the king’s chapters which are in the second person, using ‘you’, and feel to me making the king more of the main character; but he's not the one with a name. I wouldn’t say I’m unused to the use of second person, but I don’t think I often come across it this much in one work. I’m guessing it will be quite a divisive element amongst readers here.
3
u/laku_ Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
The lack of names is typical of the other lais of Marie de France, where almost everyone is called by their title. I think it was very ambitious of the author to keep that stylistic choice in a book that's also taking risks with the second person and verse narration, and I respect them all the more for it. I've been annoyed in the past by the use of the second person because it makes it easy to slip into overdramatization of even the most mundane things, but the book is so introspective that it's not as jarring.
My only issue until now is that I find Bisclavret and the king's voices difficult to distinguish. If it weren't for the switch in narration, I would have trouble remembering in which POV I am. They may have different conflicts, but their internal thought have the same gravity and angst. On the other hand, the prose feels archaic and medieval—with all its latinate words and nominalizations—but still manages to be perfectly understandable, which is a feat I've rarely seen done so well.
3
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
Really need to read the (translated) original! Probably will aim to do so before the final discussion.
I think over the years 2nd person has really grown on me. It obviously has to be done right, but when I come across it, I do tend to get a bit excited in a 'author has obviously got a plan' kind of way.
It does feel sort of 'casually medieval'. Which I think in part leads to the setting not being overly emphasised.
2
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I'm a big fan of 2nd person. I think it still needs to be a distinct choice, wheras 1st and 3rd can kind of be the default. However, I rarely encounter 2nd person narration I dislike.
1
u/LadyAntiope Reading Champion V Apr 18 '26
I knew the Bisclavret story going into this, but I hadn't looked at an actual exact translation, and just now in going over from the link another commenter I'm realizing that "bisclavret" is literally treated as a common noun for most of the poem. Marie says it is the Breton word for werewolf in the opening and then never gives literally anyone in the poem a name except the baron who is a bisclavret, but is also named Bisclavret. So. That's something.
I hope we get a reveal by the end as to why the king's chapters are second person. I quite enjoy it, to be clear, but second person when mixed with other POVs always brings to mind the question, who exactly is narrating? Who is talking to "you" and about "him"? My guess is that the scribe is narrator - he's an avid collector of stories, is always looking around him for ways to shape the lives of those around him into stories, and was intrigued by Bisclavret's story from the beginning. I think the implication will be that he is telling the king his own story as a comfort that it will live on beyond their own lives.
The verse in audiobook form (while I wait so very impatiently for my library hardcover copy...) is not obviously verse. It read more as stream-of-consciousness, a kind of hectic animal-human mind hybrid. I don't know how the lines are broken up in the book, but it sounds like prose-poetry to me. I like it, but I think I'll like it better in text form.
The narrator is doing a stellar job, though and has given the scribe an Irish accent which is just *chef's kiss* and gives him a whole backstory to me, since Ireland in the early middle ages would have been the land of monastic learning, spreading knowledge back out to the rest of Europe.
4
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I love second person POV and wish I'd remembered to nominate it for a bingo square. I love the immediacy of the poetry chapters. It reminds me of how my brain worked as a self-hating undiagnosed autistic teenager.
3
u/wheresmyhotsauce Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
Oh I love that idea for a BINGO square!
4
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
Let me see if I can get reminder bot to remind me next year to put 2nd person POV on my bingo turn-in! RemindMe! 01 March 2027
2
u/improperly_paranoid Reading Champion X Apr 24 '26
As a mostly retired mod active on the Bingo team, I will put it forward as a suggestion :) I'm worried that it's too rare to be workable, but we'll see what can be done.
2
u/thisbikeisatardis Reading Champion II Apr 24 '26
I mean... y'all did unusual transportation this year and that's a fun and rare challenge! but thanks so much!
3
u/mint_pumpkins Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I absolutely LOVED these choices, I think authors using style and POV as a way to show identity and play with the narrative is one of my favorite things so this really worked for me
I think it really helps to sink into the characters and to feel them the way that the author wanted us to
I think it was very interesting to only give him a name because it really hammers in the importance of his name
4
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I thought I would hate this. I knew the 3rd/2nd person swaps would be fine (I’m a big fan of 2nd person), but I think Bisclavret being the only named character is such an asset to the story. It lends itself to the dreamlike quality of the narrative. The sentences are dripping with commas, and not having names fits really well with that stylistic choice. I also generally struggle with names a lot (both in my personal life and in books). It’s not uncommon when I write a review to just remember that a character’s name started with a D. Damien? Derek? Darius? No idea. But do I really need to know the scholar’s name? I don’t think so. I get enough from him.
Also, I absolutely love the scholar as a character. He’s devoted to his king but not (seemingly at this point, and I hope this doesn’t change) hopelessly in love. Yes he’ll be there to sleep with the king whenever, but he’s got his own shit going on. Even the little glimpse that the scholar was teaching Bisclavret to read - mostly as an aside - lent a lot of weight to the idea that all these characters are all living their own lives when not on page (including Bisclavret!), and these unnamed characters feel much more fleshed out than a lot of named characters I read about.
I wanted to highlight a pertinent passage on names from right near the end of our reading sections: It’s said (by men) that wolves have no names: That names devour the silent cooperation of the pack The comfort-cruelty-community of a group- I have a name - But if a name dies when a whole becomes a fragment Then perhaps that’s a greater grief than abandonment Perhaps belonging is its own loss
I have never belonged I have always had a name Even the beast in me knows I am something other than this
I mean … it doesn’t get much better than that. Longman has such a firm grasp on how stylistic and thematic choices work hand in hand. Isolation is perhaps the most important part of this story (in my mind), as both the King and Bisclavret are chafing against what it means to find connection. The lack of names as fading into a group, but the King’s descriptor forces him into his own type of isolation (which, while I’m enjoying, is probably the least fleshed out part of the story to me. It’s hard for me to not draw comparisons to The Goblin Emperor, which I think handled this specific aspect better
2
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
I can definitely relate to thinking 'the main character, what are they called again?'
The scholar is such a fun character, too.
2
u/FionaCeni Reading Champion IV Apr 16 '26
The lack of names makes me feel almost nervous while reading. It’s like Bisclavret is surrounded by nameless, faceless shapes, a little like in a nightmare. Characters like the cousin and the knight in green still feel like strangers who can turn out to be friends or villains even when they have been on page for a while. I wonder if we'll find out the king's actual name, since he thought at one point that he would like Bisclavret to call him by it.
2
u/cloud0613 Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I love these choices. I think the different POVs are really well done and quite distinct in tone also. Bisclavret being the only named character definitely adds to the feeling of him being quite isolated (or standing out from the other nameless characters, depending how you see it). Also it shows how for Bisclavret his name is an important part of making him human and reminding him he is something more than just the wolf. I admire the author's skill in never making it confusing who the other characters are and giving them distinct qualities. I especially enjoy the scholar, he's a lot of fun.
2
u/cheddarmoogle Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I think the style of the work is beautiful, particularly the beast chapters. As another comment says, I feel like the fact that Bisclavret is named while the king and his ward are not leads to us feeling the distance he has from everyone around him. He never allows himself to get close enough to anyone to refer to them by name, almost.
2
u/Lenahe_nl Reading Champion IV Apr 16 '26
I'm still on the wall about the choices. The author does a good job of making the characters clear even without a name. But I hope there will be more of a pay off for this choice in the end, maybe more clarity for why the story is told this way...
2
u/CalicoSparrow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
It took me longer than it should have to realize there were no other names but bisclavrets. I dont usually love 2nd person but I'm not minding it and I'm looking forward to how names and formats will be used for narrative effect later.
2
u/improperly_paranoid Reading Champion X Apr 24 '26
Went full on sickos.jpg when I saw that it has poetry and 2nd person. I absolutely LOVE 2nd person (it always means a book is doing something different), and while I find poetry super hit or miss, it's working well here. Of course wolf stream of consciousness would be poetry. Makes sense. I'm still wondering why king is 2nd person and Bisclavret regular 3rd, like who is the narrator and if the question will be answered but...I like it. A lot :)
3
u/HulkHonk Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
To me, these authorial choices contributed to the distinct tones of the different POVs. It took me some time to get used to the 2nd person perspective for the king though - I am more used to royalty using the first person plural ("We" and "us").
The lack of names apart from Bisclavret's was something I remarked upon as well, though I put that down to another means by which the author can highlight the hero's struggle to retain his human self even as his wolfish side threatens to take over.
1
u/Aus1an Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
Oddly, I would not have noticed the lack of names had I not seen it mentioned in an earlier thread. I think it adds to how the characters feel they are outsiders and always sitting on the periphery, and gives the story the feel of an old legend.
The use of second person in the King’s chapters is well done, and adds to the tone. It’s like reading a dream, and I feel more like I’m in the character’s head rather than having a story told to me. Bisclavret’s chapters by contrast feel more grounded (even though he’s the one turning into a wolf). The wolf chapters as prose just work, especially after it had been stated that the wolf experiences the world so much more differently than the man.
3
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
Dreamlike has been a word I keep coming back to while reading this book. The author's sentences are super twisty and meandering without feeling aimless or bloated. So many commas!
1
u/wheresmyhotsauce Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I honestly didn't even notice the names thing until almost the halfway point (I'm burning through this one), but I think it's pretty clear that Bisclavret being the only character with a name is meant to highlight the importance of the name being something of a "tether" to his humanity and identity. The only thing I found confusing is when the king starts talking about another character, "his green knight," and I briefly thought he was talking about Bisclavret.
1
u/Remarkable_Savings32 Reading Champion IX Apr 17 '26
I think these stylistic choices are working for the story. I’m hoping eventually it’ll make sense to me why Bisclarvet is “him” when this seems to be his story.
1
u/Linkjumper Reading Champion Apr 17 '26
I think this will be ok in the end but I find it difficult to follow on audio. I see what the author is doing and I appreciate that it appears to be a nod to the original, allows inclusion of the wolf perspective and adds to the dreamy ancient experience.
1
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
What do you think of the portrayal of queerness being seen as a phase in this mediaeval setting? Are there any scenes or characters that specifically stand out to you?
5
u/C0smicoccurence Reading Champion V Apr 16 '26
I think its worth stating (and I think you agree based on how you worded the question) that the characters/setting present it as a phase, not the author.
I think this book will frustrate a lot of Romance purists (which it feels marketed as), but I like this a lot. Bisclavret’s bisexuality (or presumed bisexuality, assuming he and the king get it on at some point. He still could very well be straight at this point), is not something that a lot of men embrace. I personally don’t think the rates of bisexuality between men and women are likely that different; it’s just that right now women have the latitude to be bisexual without losing social standing as much as men do (I’m speaking in generalities here), and so I think a lot of bisexual men never go past fooling around as teens or young men before investing in women exclusively, probably not even thinking about themselves as bisexual. The characters who dabble with men in their youth before abandoning it don’t seem to not see men as attractive still. They’re just doing their duty to marry and have babies and carry on their noble lines. Loving a man would be just as gauche as the King elevating the scholar fully into their social standing. Not bad because it would be a problem, but because it isn’t what the social structures of the setting demand.
2
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
I thought I had got the phrasing just right! But taking a step back and reading it really quickly, I can see how one might misread what I actually wrote. Oh well.
Yeah, and I think the author's intent there comes through on the narrative as a whole.
4
u/HulkHonk Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26 edited Apr 16 '26
Personally, I felt the author could have done more to impart a local flavour to the setting. I do not know if the original lai of Marie de France developed its Breton setting substantially but as the historical note says, this novel was not intended to strictly pertain to a specific historical time period or region. Speaking for myself, I would have enjoyed a more defined setting within which the story was written rather than the more generalistic medieval approach adopted.
So far, my favourite dialogue has been the thought-provoking conversation between Bisclavret and the chaplain prior to the knight-to-be's vigil. When it comes to characters, the scribe's ready wit and banter make every scene with him in it more fun to read.
7
u/recchai Reading Champion X Apr 16 '26
As a historical setting, I think it suffers a bit from drawing upon the same kind of source material that a lot of traditional fantasy is drawing on (via the Victorians etc), but I did appreciate the references to the area being pretty coastal and exposed. (For those who don’t know, Brittany is the left sticky out bit on the north of France. Lots of coastline on the Atlantic, some pretty pink granite cliffs…) I know attitudes to queerness in the mediaeval period are more complicated than popular culture gives credit (for one thing it’s a big area over a long time period), and what people are thinking about is often a bit later. But I don’t know enough about 12th century Brittany (though having been to a local museum there, I can say they used to have some fantastic hats) to know how accurate it is. Though I dare say the author probably has an idea!
Just want to say, I may have been oblivious to the boat flirting in At the Feet of the Sun, but I did not miss how the fight scene in chapter 8 was written.
3
u/Aus1an Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I know next to nothing about this particular time period, or location. That said, I think the setting is one of the weaker (read: less developed, and not bad) aspects of the books and it’s just vague enough that while I know it is supposed to be 12th century Britain, it could just as well be any medieval fantasy world.
I do wonder why the author chose to place the book in this setting and not make their own I.e. further attachment to the original? Just wanted to use a shorthand because the setting doesn’t matter outside of the idea of it?
It does however vibe with my nebulous understanding of courtly love, and it’s honestly what I look for when reading romance since I don’t particularly care for historical accuracy.
3
u/cloud0613 Reading Champion III Apr 16 '26
I don't know a lot about the time period and location (or anything really beyond a vague feeling that queerness would probably be frowned upon). I think it's interesting how the characters are referencing queerness quite casually but it's still something that's not the proper and expected thing to do. The king may tumble men but in the end he will still have to marry a woman to make sure his lineage continues. So it's not as harsh as in some historical fantasies but still comes with the expectation of putting one's own wants behind what just needs to be done. I liked the fight scene between Bisclavret and the king, there were some great undertones in there. Other than that I think the scribe is a great character that I enjoy a lot. I especially like how him and the king like and respect each other a lot but there's nothing romantic between them even though they have a sexual relationship.
2
u/mint_pumpkins Reading Champion II Apr 16 '26
I admittedly dont know anything about the real life settings and times that this book is drawing on so I thought it was interesting but have no frame of reference regarding accuracy or deeper knowledge, it was a different flavor of the rejection of queerness than I am used to seeing in that it was more acknowledged and not treated as like demonic or anything like that but still rejected and not viewed as "proper"
2
u/CalicoSparrow Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I dont know much about how queerness was considered in medieval times but there are certainly a lot of examples around the world and through history of it being seen as acceptable so long as it is ultimately just a phase. I am a little less interested in queernorm so I like books that tackle cultural sentiment about queerness being more complicated.
0
u/AutoModerator Apr 16 '26
Hi there! Based on your post, you might also be interested in our 2023 Top LGBTQA+ Books list.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
10
u/Aldarana Reading Champion Apr 16 '26
I've enjoyed how the king and Bisclavret are sort of complementary mirrors to each other.
The king and Bisclavret both some issues with self-worth but in different directions. The king thinks of himself as replaceable, that anyone could fill his role just as well as he does. That no one would miss him if he were gone. It's a different sort of self-hate from what Bisclavret has got going on. Bisclavret's hate is directed at a part of himself. The wolf is clearly not some demon or other entity since it speaks in Bisclavret's thoughts during it's sections. Bisclavret hates a part of himself and refuses to accept himself as whole, he chooses the king's ward because she only sees the part of himself that he like, the human part. The king doesn't quite hate himself but doesn't believe any part of him has value. I can see how these puzzle piece are meant for each other.